Is America the greatest country in the world?

cincybearcat

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

I couldn't say yes or no.  The objective data research tends to say it is not.  But I do enjoy living here.  I also think the size / population of the USA presents unique challenges that not many other democracies face...so tough to compare sometimes.

Overall, I don't believe it's the greatest...it's in the top tier though.  

PJ_Soul

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

But there are tons of countries that allow that kind of freedom and offer that capacity for change. That fact doesn't set America apart at all.

But sure, I mean as long as it remains in the G7 it's not going to be that bad, and will continue to be far preferable than many other countries, obviously especially the less developed nations .... remaining a member of the G7, of course, is not guaranteed in the long term, if its politics keep going in the same direction they are going now.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the USA is at the bottom of the list for the G7. It used to be at the top.

Spiritual_Chaos

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

Spiritual you have legit  neo- nazi s in your parliament. Your own country is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. Your country is becoming what you hate. I don’t think neo-nazi s will ever hold a single seat of congress in our modern democracy. 

Ledbetterman10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

The best thing we have going here in America is our arts and entertainment. There's a reason why you have over 8,000 posts on the website of an American rock band, and I'll never visit the website of a Swedish rock band. 

I guess another good thing about America is that it's so big that there are various weather climates you can live in. 

That's all I have off the top of my head: Entertainment and climate. 

Spiritual_Chaos

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

The best thing we have going here in America is our arts and entertainment. There's a reason why you have over 8,000 posts on the website of an American rock band, and I'll never visit the website of a Swedish rock band. 

I guess another good thing about America is that it's so big that there are various weather climates you can live in. 

That's all I have off the top of my head: Entertainment and climate. 

What has this to do with my post?

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

Spiritual you have legit  neo- nazi s in your parliament. Your own country is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. Your country is becoming what you hate. I don’t think neo-nazi s will ever hold a single seat of congress in our modern democracy. 

What has this to do with my post?

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

Spiritual you have legit  neo- nazi s in your parliament. Your own country is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. Your country is becoming what you hate. I don’t think neo-nazi s will ever hold a single seat of congress in our modern democracy. 

I think white nationalists already hold seats in the US Congress man. Just because they aren't sieg-heiling all over town doesn't mean you don't have total racists at your highest levels of government. To say the least. We all know that the US government does indeed have extreme racists in it right now.

I tend to agree with your comment about where Sweden is right now though. That anti-immigrant trend is VERY dangerous for Sweden... and it seems that so many Swedes are in denial about that, because it seems that normally liberal folks there are falling prey to the hype. Not good.

Same goes for some Canadians btw, but we haven't gotten that bad yet.... time will tell which way we're going to swing with that. How many Canadians will fall for it?? I'm worried.

Nothing ruins countries faster than a good dose of reactionary racism and xenophobia under the guise of nationalism.

Ledbetterman10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

The best thing we have going here in America is our arts and entertainment. There's a reason why you have over 8,000 posts on the website of an American rock band, and I'll never visit the website of a Swedish rock band. 

I guess another good thing about America is that it's so big that there are various weather climates you can live in. 

That's all I have off the top of my head: Entertainment and climate. 

What has this to do with my post?

It's more of a general answer to the thread's topic. And you being Swedish, and noting there isn't much difference between America and Sweden from a democracy standpoint, I thought "Hmmm, well what would be a point in American's favor a comparison to a country like Sweden?" Entertainment and climate is all I could come up with. And even climate is pushing it. 

Spiritual_Chaos

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

Spiritual you have legit  neo- nazi s in your parliament. Your own country is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. Your country is becoming what you hate. I don’t think neo-nazi s will ever hold a single seat of congress in our modern democracy. 

I think white nationalists already hold seats in the US Congress man. Just because they aren't sieg-heiling all over town doesn't mean you don't have total racists at your highest levels of government. To say the least. We all know that the US government does indeed have extreme racists in it right now.

I tend to agree with your comment about where Sweden is right now though. That anti-immigrant trend is VERY dangerous for Sweden... and it seems that so many Swedes are in denial about that, because it seems that normally liberal folks there are falling prey to the hype. Not good.

Same goes for some Canadians btw, but we haven't gotten that bad yet.... time will tell which way we're going to swing with that. How many Canadians will fall for it?? I'm worried.

Nothing ruins countries faster than a good dose of reactionary racism and xenophobia under the guise of nationalism.

That is not unique in any way to Sweden though (As you pointed out), what differs from other parts of Europe is that other swedish political parties hasn't normalized them (yet) by accepting/talking to them.

It should also be noted, that the republican party in the US is far more right-winged and vicious than The Swedish Democrats political policies. And, dislikes  foreigners as much if not more. THEY PUT CHILDREN IN CAGES while The Swedish Democrats want to lower immigration/Aid to European standards (I bet which are higher than the US standards). And i would gladly take names of these "legit neo-nazis" you are talking about @mcgruff10?

And I've never said Sweden was perfect (I don't know what any of these has to do with the discussion). We did give you ABBA though.

PJ_Soul

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

So what's the conclusion for this thread? A resounding NO, right?

It's got it's flaws, and I'm no chest pounding nationalist, but I'd say it's the greatest country simply for the fact of everything being discussed going on in this country is able to be openly debated, challenged and changed. Some of the things we do are shitty and some are great, but over time it seems that we tend to figure it out and those among us who care enough, push the change ahead. Donald Trump just made everyone realize that we're not as close to getting it right as we thought.

In what western democracy would this not be true?

This is the weirdness you hear on the US cable news shows about how unique the US is with its freedom of speech and availability to voice openings. IN WHAT MODERN DEMOCRACY IS THAT NOT POSSIBLE?!

Do you think we in Sweden and are not able to openly debate, challenge or change? 

Please describe to me this big chasm you speak of that makes the US "the greatest" because of it?

Spiritual you have legit  neo- nazi s in your parliament. Your own country is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. Your country is becoming what you hate. I don’t think neo-nazi s will ever hold a single seat of congress in our modern democracy. 

I think white nationalists already hold seats in the US Congress man. Just because they aren't sieg-heiling all over town doesn't mean you don't have total racists at your highest levels of government. To say the least. We all know that the US government does indeed have extreme racists in it right now.

I tend to agree with your comment about where Sweden is right now though. That anti-immigrant trend is VERY dangerous for Sweden... and it seems that so many Swedes are in denial about that, because it seems that normally liberal folks there are falling prey to the hype. Not good.

Same goes for some Canadians btw, but we haven't gotten that bad yet.... time will tell which way we're going to swing with that. How many Canadians will fall for it?? I'm worried.

Nothing ruins countries faster than a good dose of reactionary racism and xenophobia under the guise of nationalism.

That is not unique in any way to Sweden though (As you pointed out), what differs from other parts of Europe is that other swedish political parties hasn't normalized them (yet) by accepting/talking to them.

It should also be noted, that the republican party in the US is far more right-winged and vicious than The Swedish Democrats political policies. And, dislikes  foreigners as much if not more. THEY PUT CHILDREN IN CAGES while The Swedish Democrats want to lower immigration/Aid to European standards (I bet which are higher than the US standards). And i would gladly take names of these "legit neo-nazis" you are talking about @mcgruff10?

And I've never said Sweden was perfect (I don't know what any of these has to do with the discussion). We did give you ABBA though.

I agree that American certainly has FAR more and worse problems than Sweden in many ways, including racism in government, that is undeniable. Anyone who does deny is, well, in denial, lol.

cincybearcat

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

No, that wasn't my point, and not a concept I generally agree with in the context you mean. My point was that population size can be an indicator of how many immigrants a country is equipped to take in. Seems that Germany is going above and beyond, for obvious reasons.

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

No, that wasn't my point, and not a concept I generally agree with in the context you mean. My point was that population size can be an indicator of how many immigrants a country is equipped to take in. Seems that Germany is going above and beyond, for obvious reasons.

Yeah a 400,000 person labor shortage will do that.   I personally think it looks like a lot of countries are taking in a lot of people.  

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

No, that wasn't my point, and not a concept I generally agree with in the context you mean. My point was that population size can be an indicator of how many immigrants a country is equipped to take in. Seems that Germany is going above and beyond, for obvious reasons.

Yeah a 400,000 person labor shortage will do that.   I personally think it looks like a lot of countries are taking in a lot of people.  

I agree, but not enough, unfortunately, because of the horrible things happening to people in this world.

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

No, that wasn't my point, and not a concept I generally agree with in the context you mean. My point was that population size can be an indicator of how many immigrants a country is equipped to take in. Seems that Germany is going above and beyond, for obvious reasons.

Yeah a 400,000 person labor shortage will do that.   I personally think it looks like a lot of countries are taking in a lot of people.  

So what about the 7,000,000+ labor shortage in the US?
 

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Yeah...

Population Sweden is 10 million.

Population of Canada is 37 million.

Population of the UK is 66.5 million.

Populations of Germany is 82 million.

Population of the US is 326 million.

Yup.  So we agree that the US size makes it pretty unique and tough to compare in a lot of ways then?

No, that wasn't my point, and not a concept I generally agree with in the context you mean. My point was that population size can be an indicator of how many immigrants a country is equipped to take in. Seems that Germany is going above and beyond, for obvious reasons.

Yeah a 400,000 person labor shortage will do that.   I personally think it looks like a lot of countries are taking in a lot of people.  

So what about the 7,000,000+ labor shortage in the US?
 

Yup, I agree. we need immigration reform badly.  Germany just updated theirs to help with that labor shortage....they are looking for skilled labor.  

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

"The U.S. accepted 1,183,500 permanent migrants in 2016, remaining the top country for immigration."

Canada under 300,000
Sweden 138,000

USA was #1, Germany #2 at about 1 million, UK at #3 was only 350,000

Sweden accepted the most asYlYm seekers per capita in the whole world from the latest refugee crisis in SYria . Far above the european/world average.

Which Your lovelY president has mocked for some reason? Helping out people the US helped fuck up their lives for (according to Trump even)?

So what point are You trYing to make?