Taking Offense - Has It Gone Off The Rails?

RiotZact

unsung said:

No disputing that, but I didn't do it.  So I am not taking blame for it either.

So you'll take full pride in all of the good things that your race has done and fear the elimination of a culture that you had no hand in creating, yet take no responsibility for the bad stuff? No, slavery is not your fault. No, you had no role in the creation of American football. But it's ok that you deny any responsibility for the slavery but take pride in the football? 

I'm totally cool with accepting responsibility for both or neither of those examples, but don't cherry pick which ones make you feel good about yourself and which ones don't. Take ownership of it all, or none of it.

unsung

I don't watch football.  I have no interest in your team collecting more points than another team.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No disputing that, but I didn't do it.  So I am not taking blame for it either.

So you'll take full pride in all of the good things that your race has done and fear the elimination of a culture that you had no hand in creating, yet take no responsibility for the bad stuff? No, slavery is not your fault. No, you had no role in the creation of American football. But it's ok that you deny any responsibility for the slavery but take pride in the football? 

I'm totally cool with accepting responsibility for both or neither of those examples, but don't cherry pick which ones make you feel good about yourself and which ones don't. Take ownership of it all, or none of it.

Do you hold all cultures/races to the same standards? By this, I mean the 'accountability' aspect (taking ownership of all behaviours or actions attributed to one's race or culture)?

RiotZact

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No disputing that, but I didn't do it.  So I am not taking blame for it either.

So you'll take full pride in all of the good things that your race has done and fear the elimination of a culture that you had no hand in creating, yet take no responsibility for the bad stuff? No, slavery is not your fault. No, you had no role in the creation of American football. But it's ok that you deny any responsibility for the slavery but take pride in the football? 

I'm totally cool with accepting responsibility for both or neither of those examples, but don't cherry pick which ones make you feel good about yourself and which ones don't. Take ownership of it all, or none of it.

Do you hold all cultures/races to the same standards? By this, I mean the 'accountability' aspect (taking ownership of all behaviours or actions attributed to one's race or culture)?

The only standard I'm holding anyone to is not to cherry pick the good things and ignore the bad things. I personally don't really take "accountability" for any of it, I don't blame myself for slavery, nor do I take pride in something my race did 200 years before my existence. 

RiotZact

unsung said:

I don't watch football.  I have no interest in your team collecting more points than another team.

I knew you'd do that. It was a random example and you know that, nice deflection though.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RiotZact said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No disputing that, but I didn't do it.  So I am not taking blame for it either.

So you'll take full pride in all of the good things that your race has done and fear the elimination of a culture that you had no hand in creating, yet take no responsibility for the bad stuff? No, slavery is not your fault. No, you had no role in the creation of American football. But it's ok that you deny any responsibility for the slavery but take pride in the football? 

I'm totally cool with accepting responsibility for both or neither of those examples, but don't cherry pick which ones make you feel good about yourself and which ones don't. Take ownership of it all, or none of it.

Do you hold all cultures/races to the same standards? By this, I mean the 'accountability' aspect (taking ownership of all behaviours or actions attributed to one's race or culture)?

The only standard I'm holding anyone to is not to cherry pick the good things and ignore the bad things. I personally don't really take "accountability" for any of it, I don't blame myself for slavery, nor do I take pride in something my race did 200 years before my existence. 

So generations of German people should acknowledge the holocaust before speaking to any positive item relevant to their nation? England and other European countries should speak of colonialism in the same manner? Muslims should take ownership of Islamic atrocities before speaking about love and peace?

I don't think such is necessary. Outside of Buddhists, every race or culture has a shameful past (or present) to some degree. Maybe Buddhists do too?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

A quick google search reveals Buddhists aren't fantastic either:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32929855

RiotZact

I'm just saying that maybe those things should be kept in mind before everyone goes stroking their own egos. Remember, we're talking about Unsung fearing the elimination of his precious white race and culture by having it mix and evolve with different cultures, which is literally how America came to be what it is, it just so happened that most of its inhabitants at the time had similar colored skin. 

unsung

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

I don't watch football.  I have no interest in your team collecting more points than another team.

I knew you'd do that. It was a random example and you know that, nice deflection though.

I'd tell you how we should care about the Federal Reserve and I'd only get back that it is more important that some guy should be able to use the woman's bathroom.

As a random example.

unsung

RiotZact said:

I'm just saying that maybe those things should be kept in mind before everyone goes stroking their own egos. Remember, we're talking about Unsung fearing the elimination of his precious white race and culture by having it mix and evolve with different cultures, which is literally how America came to be what it is, it just so happened that most of its inhabitants at the time had similar colored skin. 

Who are you?  Did you change your username?

RiotZact

unsung said:

RiotZact said:

I'm just saying that maybe those things should be kept in mind before everyone goes stroking their own egos. Remember, we're talking about Unsung fearing the elimination of his precious white race and culture by having it mix and evolve with different cultures, which is literally how America came to be what it is, it just so happened that most of its inhabitants at the time had similar colored skin. 

Who are you?  Did you change your username?

No, I used to post here every once in awhile but my membership lapsed, renewed it with about 2 days left on my grace period. Close call. 

In all honesty I used to like reading your posts, you seemed like a decent voice of reason to the high liberal bias on this forum. But the past couple of months I've been lurking as a non-member and you've been saying some flat out outlandish things. I know you're not a Trump supporter, but I really feel like you're one of these people that I've seen in all walks of life that see Trump's election as a free pass to say all kind of pent-up shit that wasn't allowed to be said before, and it really shows your true colors.

unsung

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

rgambs

unsung said:

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

That sounds like the gentle pitter patter of salty tears to me.

RiotZact

unsung said:

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

I'm totally behind you on that, there has been plenty of crying and hypocrisy on the left these past few months. To me it shows that the 2 sides aren't as different as we sometimes think they are, becuase much of it reminds me of how the right acted about Obama.

benjs

RiotZact said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No disputing that, but I didn't do it.  So I am not taking blame for it either.

So you'll take full pride in all of the good things that your race has done and fear the elimination of a culture that you had no hand in creating, yet take no responsibility for the bad stuff? No, slavery is not your fault. No, you had no role in the creation of American football. But it's ok that you deny any responsibility for the slavery but take pride in the football? 

I'm totally cool with accepting responsibility for both or neither of those examples, but don't cherry pick which ones make you feel good about yourself and which ones don't. Take ownership of it all, or none of it.

Do you hold all cultures/races to the same standards? By this, I mean the 'accountability' aspect (taking ownership of all behaviours or actions attributed to one's race or culture)?

The only standard I'm holding anyone to is not to cherry pick the good things and ignore the bad things. I personally don't really take "accountability" for any of it, I don't blame myself for slavery, nor do I take pride in something my race did 200 years before my existence. 

I agree with this personally. I did not make Canada what it is, I did not make Canada what it's not. I have not yet made a lasting and meaningful contribution to Canada (besides what a small retail facility contributes to GDP). Hence, no pride, no shame. If I were to possess one, I feel a moral obligation to possess the other.

mattsl1983

Go Beavers said:

Yea, sure, let's rely on biased think tanks as opposed to non-partisan government agencies. Perhaps you can link to some of that google research that shows it doesn't exist, seeing that you made the claim. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to retire to my library and search for the report that unequivocally proves for you that oppression exists. I'm sure you'll accept it once I find it. And after you've finished linking to your google sources that back your claim, would you mind defining "today" and "it?" My stacks are long and deep and it'll reduce my search time. Thank you.

Cool. I never made any claim. I'm not making the argument for or against it. You keep believing what you want and thinking you are right, I'll continue to educate myself and look for real evidence and facts before I buy into an idea. I also enjoyed your last comment, the attempt to take a higher ground and talk down to me was a classy move, probably out of frustration. Hope you have a good day

I'd rather talk down than be a passive agressive mansplaining troll like you. Talking down is politically incorrect. I thought you Trump trolls wanted us to be more like that? Silly trolls. You can't have things both ways!

I hope you feel better! And who said anything about trump?? Why does trump get brought up? At what point did I say anything about trump? You sound angry. And now I'm a troll? Name calling. Classy.

Denying facts and supporting trump have a strong correlation. That's not a claim for or against, just pointing out a strong relationship. Now if you can point me to real evidence and facts that proves this isn't the case, I'm all ears.

Again, you are so hell bent on this trump thing.  Please point out when I brought him up in this debate.  Oh yea, you can't, cause I didn't.  You brought one resource and present it as fact.  I said give me more evidence.  Since when is wanting multiple resources as fact ignoring?  seriously, it's that mentality that is scary.

Go Beavers

mattsl1983 said:

Go Beavers said:

Yea, sure, let's rely on biased think tanks as opposed to non-partisan government agencies. Perhaps you can link to some of that google research that shows it doesn't exist, seeing that you made the claim. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to retire to my library and search for the report that unequivocally proves for you that oppression exists. I'm sure you'll accept it once I find it. And after you've finished linking to your google sources that back your claim, would you mind defining "today" and "it?" My stacks are long and deep and it'll reduce my search time. Thank you.

Cool. I never made any claim. I'm not making the argument for or against it. You keep believing what you want and thinking you are right, I'll continue to educate myself and look for real evidence and facts before I buy into an idea. I also enjoyed your last comment, the attempt to take a higher ground and talk down to me was a classy move, probably out of frustration. Hope you have a good day

I'd rather talk down than be a passive agressive mansplaining troll like you. Talking down is politically incorrect. I thought you Trump trolls wanted us to be more like that? Silly trolls. You can't have things both ways!

I hope you feel better! And who said anything about trump?? Why does trump get brought up? At what point did I say anything about trump? You sound angry. And now I'm a troll? Name calling. Classy.

Denying facts and supporting trump have a strong correlation. That's not a claim for or against, just pointing out a strong relationship. Now if you can point me to real evidence and facts that proves this isn't the case, I'm all ears.

Again, you are so hell bent on this trump thing.  Please point out when I brought him up in this debate.  Oh yea, you can't, cause I didn't.  You brought one resource and present it as fact.  I said give me more evidence.  Since when is wanting multiple resources as fact ignoring?  seriously, it's that mentality that is scary.

I was pointing out a strong corellation, but even with that corellation, people will try and deny the relationship. With racism, I see people maintain a strong denial even when presented with evidence. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you've already made your conclusion. You were given evidence of harsher sentencing for blacks, and then you attempted to deny the evidence by bringing up variables already accounted for in the data.  

Go Beavers

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

I'm totally behind you on that, there has been plenty of crying and hypocrisy on the left these past few months. To me it shows that the 2 sides aren't as different as we sometimes think they are, becuase much of it reminds me of how the right acted about Obama.

Your perspective is saying that trump is the right's equivalent to Obama. Too bad that isn't the case. If trump was the republican version of Obama, then you'd have a point.  

RiotZact

Go Beavers said:

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

I'm totally behind you on that, there has been plenty of crying and hypocrisy on the left these past few months. To me it shows that the 2 sides aren't as different as we sometimes think they are, becuase much of it reminds me of how the right acted about Obama.

Your perspective is saying that trump is the right's equivalent to Obama. Too bad that isn't the case. If trump was the republican version of Obama, then you'd have a point.  

I never used the word equivalent, but I do think there are similarities. I do think that there are more grounds for criticism for Trump and I do think that the overall whining was louder and coming from more of a majority of the base on issues with no basis in reality when Obama was president (i.e. Coming door to door for your guns). But I'm saying this as someone with a strong liberal bias, so I can't really say for sure which issues actually have merit and which are grasping at straws. 

When trying to look at the situation from as neutral a view as I can, I can see how some people would be a little bit frustrated with a portion of the left, considering how upset the left has gotten in recent history when the right attacked Obama for bullshit reasons. 

Also, I think it's counterproductive to constantly nitpick everything the right/Trump does, I think our time would be much better spent trying to show people the good of the left rather than constantly trying to destroy the right. Otherwise we risk becoming everything we hated so much about the right for the past 8 years. 

HughFreakingDillon

RiotZact said:

Go Beavers said:

RiotZact said:

unsung said:

No, what this election has shown me is the evil that exists on the losing side and then they wonder how the result managed to be the way it was.  I am tired of the crybaby antics.

Keep it up and it will be eight years.

I'm totally behind you on that, there has been plenty of crying and hypocrisy on the left these past few months. To me it shows that the 2 sides aren't as different as we sometimes think they are, becuase much of it reminds me of how the right acted about Obama.

Your perspective is saying that trump is the right's equivalent to Obama. Too bad that isn't the case. If trump was the republican version of Obama, then you'd have a point.  

I never used the word equivalent, but I do think there are similarities. I do think that there are more grounds for criticism for Trump and I do think that the overall whining was louder and coming from more of a majority of the base on issues with no basis in reality when Obama was president (i.e. Coming door to door for your guns). But I'm saying this as someone with a strong liberal bias, so I can't really say for sure which issues actually have merit and which are grasping at straws. 

When trying to look at the situation from as neutral a view as I can, I can see how some people would be a little bit frustrated with a portion of the left, considering how upset the left has gotten in recent history when the right attacked Obama for bullshit reasons. 

Also, I think it's counterproductive to constantly nitpick everything the right/Trump does, I think our time would be much better spent trying to show people the good of the left rather than constantly trying to destroy the right. Otherwise we risk becoming everything we hated so much about the right for the past 8 years. 

been making your last point as well. there is too much outrage, so all the stuff with merit gets swallowed up by the rest. 

"they go low, we go high" unfortunately didn't resonate as a message. people, naturally it seems, are more interested in fictionalized drama than undramatic truth. so, going forward, how does the democratic party wade through those waters? you don't want to be negative, but no one seems to listen to the positive. unless it's negative disguised as a positive (build the wall!), which Trump's base seems to have cornered the market on. 

it's like trump has ushered in a new era where the people will only believe you if you say outlandish things, no matter what they are. "well, I don't care what he says, at least I know he's telling the truth". they seem to think telling the truth has more value than what the truth is.