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Donald Trump

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    JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    So the rich and corporations need a tax cut because why?
    short answer: corps pay an effective tax rate of 12%, since they are people they can take their profits and vote for even lower rates via campaign contributions and lobbying fees.
    my advice: become rich, incorporate or hire a lobbying firm
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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,729
    So the rich and corporations need a tax cut because why?
    “To stimulate the economy”.
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
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    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    LBJ refused to run and would not accept his party’s nomination.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    JC29856 said:
    So the rich and corporations need a tax cut because why?
    short answer: corps pay an effective tax rate of 12%, since they are people they can take their profits and vote for even lower rates via campaign contributions and lobbying fees.
    my advice: become rich, incorporate or hire a lobbying firm
    Define rich.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,729
    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    You really think trump will be looked on positively in the future? Come on. If he’s in four years the disasters will keep piling up. No one documenting this is writing anything positive about him. That’s what will go on the record. And I have no idea why you think he’d get re-elected. 
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    You really think trump will be looked on positively in the future? Come on. If he’s in four years the disasters will keep piling up. No one documenting this is writing anything positive about him. That’s what will go on the record. And I have no idea why you think he’d get re-elected. 
    this is a common theme. people think since the DNC hasn't put anyone up yet that they will fail and they have no message and all that. even though the democratic primaries are what, at least 2 years away?
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    You really think trump will be looked on positively in the future? Come on. If he’s in four years the disasters will keep piling up. No one documenting this is writing anything positive about him. That’s what will go on the record. And I have no idea why you think he’d get re-elected. 
    There's two ways of looking at how positively he'll be looked at.  Will he be considered a good president?  No.  But 50 years from now, when most of us are dead and school kids are looking at all the presidential photos, he'll be on that list (which I think is like 50% of what he wanted out of this) and while actual historians will consider this a disaster, time will make him just one of the few...but leaving in disgrace (i.e., being removed or resigning) would be part of the basics of what we know about him.  Getting through two (or even one?) terms and he's not "that guy."  Do we know Andrew Jackson was a scumbag?  Sure.  Those of us interested in such things.  But he's on money.  By resigning, Trump becomes Nixon.  By sticking it out, he is more like W or someone.  The fact that he's a racist Twitter troll won't be reflected in civics class.

    As for 2020, if he decides to run again, underestimate his movement at our peril.  If the Dems (a party in absolute shambles) don't find a candidate that brings people out to the polls, yeah, he has a real shot.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited November 2017
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    You really think trump will be looked on positively in the future? Come on. If he’s in four years the disasters will keep piling up. No one documenting this is writing anything positive about him. That’s what will go on the record. And I have no idea why you think he’d get re-elected. 
    There's two ways of looking at how positively he'll be looked at.  Will he be considered a good president?  No.  But 50 years from now, when most of us are dead and school kids are looking at all the presidential photos, he'll be on that list (which I think is like 50% of what he wanted out of this) and while actual historians will consider this a disaster, time will make him just one of the few...but leaving in disgrace (i.e., being removed or resigning) would be part of the basics of what we know about him.  Getting through two (or even one?) terms and he's not "that guy."  Do we know Andrew Jackson was a scumbag?  Sure.  Those of us interested in such things.  But he's on money.  By resigning, Trump becomes Nixon.  By sticking it out, he is more like W or someone.  The fact that he's a racist Twitter troll won't be reflected in civics class.

    As for 2020, if he decides to run again, underestimate his movement at our peril.  If the Dems (a party in absolute shambles) don't find a candidate that brings people out to the polls, yeah, he has a real shot.
    The Dems are not a party in absolute shambles, that's a ridiculous myth that's being perpetuated by conservatives who are distracting from the fact that their party is incapable of action despite domination of the 3 branches.
    The Democratic party's message hasn't changed, they are united in opposition, and the lack of a front runner for Presidential candidate is a smart and calculated move.
    Both of the last 2 Presidents came on the scene very late and beat the established favorites within their parties.  People are in a serious state of mistrust for career politicians, rallying behind a seasoned candidate now would be foolish.  It gives too much time for conservatives to craft their defense, it eliminates the possibility of an Obama type rising star, and it mobilises the extremists in the party who are obsessing over the bias in the last primary for Clinton.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    What is he hiding?

    Wait, I thought Trump had 'one of the greatest memories of all time'? - CNN
    https://apple.news/A3Rfu1_4jTjmKBsn8kXcwDQ 

    I have a feeling that some of that laundered money made its way to the RNC. Follow the money indeed.
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458

    Oh, look, my level of embarrassment has reached yet another low.


    Sorry rest of the world!

    chinese-happy.jpg
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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Yeah, I think lack of control will ultimately be Trump's emotional undoing. He is used to being large and in charge. But as President I think he's much more limited in power than he anticipated. He can't "order" congress to do anything. He can't "order" DOJ or FBI to actually do anything. He can't "order" the military to ban trans soldiers from serving. He can't "order" the Supremes to allow his travel ban to continue. He can write EOs all day long. But he has no decorum, no ability to persuade, no diplomacy, no empathy. He is used to being a ruler rather than a leader. It is driving him mad. Hopefully he goes fully cuckoo and the 25th Amendment gets invoked. I don't care if he harms himself, but unfortunately he's in a position to do a lot of harm to this country and the world. 

    Trump Says He’s ‘Very Frustrated’ He Can’t Order DOJ, FBI To Go After Hillary Clinton

    “But you know the saddest thing is that because I’m the president of the United States, I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department. I’m not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I’m not supposed to be doing the kind of things that I would love to be doing. And I’m very frustrated by it.”
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,801
    Trump topic change... diplomacy.  I'm sure most of you saw this crazy ass statement from Trump yesterday. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/03/561797675/im-the-only-one-that-matters-trump-says-of-state-dept-job-vacancies

    Now put it together with reporting from the WashPo that the administration sought to meet with Rouhani directly.  Here is the American Conservative's take on the whole thing, which I find pretty funny, insightful and sad.  

    The Post reports on a very strange story that has been making the rounds this week:

    Just hours after President Trump finished calling Iran a “murderous regime” in his Sept. 19 speech at the United Nations, the administration asked French President Emmanuel Macron for a favor. Would Macron inquire whether Iranian President Hassan Rouhani was interested in speaking directly with Trump?

    All three leaders were in New York for the U.N. General Assembly, as was Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who conveyed the request to Macron, according to several administration and foreign officials.

    Iran’s response, later that afternoon, was an unequivocal no. The Iranians, the French reported, “don’t believe you’re serious” and thought it was some kind of trick, a senior administration official said.

    When the Iranian government initially claimed that Trump sought to speak to Rouhani at the U.N., it seemed hard to believe. After all, why would Trump want to talk to the Iranian president when he had just denounced the Iranian government in the harshest terms? For that matter, who on our side would expect a positive response from the Iranians following Trump’s display of hostility? It turns out that the original story was true, but we still don’t have satisfying answers to these questions. The administration’s explanation doesn’t make much sense:

    Asked why Trump wanted to meet with Rouhani, the official said it was “in order to say, ‘Here’s all the mean stuff you do in the world, and we want you to stop. . . . If not, you should know we’re working on a strategy to get you to confront all of this.’ ”

    The primary message, the official said, was that “the golden Obama-era window of rapprochement is over.”

    If that account is correct, Trump wanted to meet with Rouhani for the sole purpose of issuing a threat, but that seems bizarre as well. There would be no reason to have a high-level meeting between presidents to deliver such an insulting message. There would certainly be no reason for their president to agree to a meeting where this would take place. Trump’s U.N. speech had already made the administration’s hostility to Iran perfectly clear, and the Iranian government could hardly fail to miss that. If this bungled attempt at making contact with Iran is any indication of how the administration thinks diplomacy is supposed to work, things are much worse than we thought.

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    mrussel1 said:
    Trump topic change... diplomacy.  I'm sure most of you saw this crazy ass statement from Trump yesterday. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/03/561797675/im-the-only-one-that-matters-trump-says-of-state-dept-job-vacancies

    Now put it together with reporting from the WashPo that the administration sought to meet with Rouhani directly.  Here is the American Conservative's take on the whole thing, which I find pretty funny, insightful and sad.  

    The Post reports on a very strange story that has been making the rounds this week:

    Just hours after President Trump finished calling Iran a “murderous regime” in his Sept. 19 speech at the United Nations, the administration asked French President Emmanuel Macron for a favor. Would Macron inquire whether Iranian President Hassan Rouhani was interested in speaking directly with Trump?

    All three leaders were in New York for the U.N. General Assembly, as was Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who conveyed the request to Macron, according to several administration and foreign officials.

    Iran’s response, later that afternoon, was an unequivocal no. The Iranians, the French reported, “don’t believe you’re serious” and thought it was some kind of trick, a senior administration official said.

    When the Iranian government initially claimed that Trump sought to speak to Rouhani at the U.N., it seemed hard to believe. After all, why would Trump want to talk to the Iranian president when he had just denounced the Iranian government in the harshest terms? For that matter, who on our side would expect a positive response from the Iranians following Trump’s display of hostility? It turns out that the original story was true, but we still don’t have satisfying answers to these questions. The administration’s explanation doesn’t make much sense:

    Asked why Trump wanted to meet with Rouhani, the official said it was “in order to say, ‘Here’s all the mean stuff you do in the world, and we want you to stop. . . . If not, you should know we’re working on a strategy to get you to confront all of this.’ ”

    The primary message, the official said, was that “the golden Obama-era window of rapprochement is over.”

    If that account is correct, Trump wanted to meet with Rouhani for the sole purpose of issuing a threat, but that seems bizarre as well. There would be no reason to have a high-level meeting between presidents to deliver such an insulting message. There would certainly be no reason for their president to agree to a meeting where this would take place. Trump’s U.N. speech had already made the administration’s hostility to Iran perfectly clear, and the Iranian government could hardly fail to miss that. If this bungled attempt at making contact with Iran is any indication of how the administration thinks diplomacy is supposed to work, things are much worse than we thought.


    "Much worse than we thought?" For those that don't think, maybe. Sheesh. Untenable.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Brilliantati©
  • Options
    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,777
    edited November 2017
    jeffbr said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Yeah, I think lack of control will ultimately be Trump's emotional undoing. He is used to being large and in charge. But as President I think he's much more limited in power than he anticipated. He can't "order" congress to do anything. He can't "order" DOJ or FBI to actually do anything. He can't "order" the military to ban trans soldiers from serving. He can't "order" the Supremes to allow his travel ban to continue. He can write EOs all day long. But he has no decorum, no ability to persuade, no diplomacy, no empathy. He is used to being a ruler rather than a leader. It is driving him mad. Hopefully he goes fully cuckoo and the 25th Amendment gets invoked. I don't care if he harms himself, but unfortunately he's in a position to do a lot of harm to this country and the world. 

    Trump Says He’s ‘Very Frustrated’ He Can’t Order DOJ, FBI To Go After Hillary Clinton

    “But you know the saddest thing is that because I’m the president of the United States, I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department. I’m not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I’m not supposed to be doing the kind of things that I would love to be doing. And I’m very frustrated by it.”
    No, the saddest thing is that you're in the White House. :tongue:

    Makes me smile that the founding fathers made it so America wouldn't have a King. Thank you founding fathers. It wasn't perfect but a great foundation. :)
    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
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    If you people have not watched any of the Roger Waters 'Pigs' live concert footage from this last tour... you need to.

    I knew he had been unkind to Trump, but this was another dimension unkind. And I loved it!

    Here... I copied it for you if you're inclined:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgkC0v3oGI

    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,304
    If you people have not watched any of the Roger Waters 'Pigs' live concert footage from this last tour... you need to.

    I knew he had been unkind to Trump, but this was another dimension unkind. And I loved it!

    Here... I copied it for you if you're inclined:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgkC0v3oGI

    Jesus, that's awesome.
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    Just in time for the summer campaign season for the mid terms. Unless of course there’s a Christmas, oops, can’t say that, holiday pardon.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/03/politics/manafort-trial-set-for-may-2018/index.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,801
    dignin said:
    If you people have not watched any of the Roger Waters 'Pigs' live concert footage from this last tour... you need to.

    I knew he had been unkind to Trump, but this was another dimension unkind. And I loved it!

    Here... I copied it for you if you're inclined:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNgkC0v3oGI

    Jesus, that's awesome.
    I recorded the whole DC show.  It was really an astounding experience.  And the Pigs part just blew me away.  Rog really cut deep.  
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    I really should have spent the money to go see Waters one last time. Especially with his fondness for Trump. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    Jason PJason P Posts: 19,124
    If Bernie runs as independent, Trump will win easily.  No way Trump resigns, it's not in his DNA.
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    JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    presidential!
    a collective hip hip horay!

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/358677-us-strikes-isis-in-somalia-for-first-time
    U.S. forces conducted airstrikes Friday in Somalia against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) militants, their first against the terrorist group in that country.
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/03/politics/donald-trump-memory/index.html

    his ridiculous claims about himself continue to be his undoing. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,777
    trump just keeps screwing it all up, dividing, dividing, dividing, fighting, hostility, arguing, lying. I'm going to vomit.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-democrats_us_59fc8d1be4b0415a420b590a?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    Falling down,...not staying down
  • Options
    stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,359
    edited November 2017
    Kat said:
    trump just keeps screwing it all up, dividing, dividing, dividing, fighting, hostility, arguing, lying. I'm going to vomit.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-democrats_us_59fc8d1be4b0415a420b590a?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    Kat, may we add insulting to your list?

    Trump also managed to simultaneously cite and insult Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), who said on Thursday that she believed the Democratic nomination had been rigged, by once again referring to her as “Pocahontas.”

    Post edited by stuckinline on
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,451
    There are no other words to describe him they have all been used , yet the GOP will stand by him no matter what they have sold themselves to him just to be in control fuck the Constitution that shit only applies when a Democrat occupies the WH ...If this was Obama the GOP would of charged the WH with the army to put him in cuffs ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,304
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    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,590
    edited November 2017
    dignin said:
    Yup he has said that more than once. And this morning said he couldn't remember the meeting that George  Papadopolous was at.
    What a great human he is.


    Post edited by Bentleyspop on
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,038
    I didn't vote for the guy but my 403b and stocks have really liked him.  :)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,271
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    word on the street is that Trump has:

    -asked his aides about the resignation process
    -indicated he will not run again in 2020. 

    FAKE NEWS or AMAZING NEWS?
    i read that too. 

    the resignation process is pretty simple. you quit, and your successor gets sworn in.

    dude will probably resign before the next election cycle. can you imagine him having to fight off not only democrats, but his primary challenger?

    I could see him resigning and offering a ton of excuses as to why (eg. the futility of congress).

    He likely sees failure imminent and as opposed to experiencing it... he might just quit and save himself the humiliation. I'd prefer he stick around to get bounced in some manner.
    I flip flop on this. I could see him just giving up because he's so frustrated at his lack of total control. he went into this thinking he could do whatever the fuck he wants. But public perception of him is of huge importance to him. that's really all that matters, which is why he has a tantrum any time negative things are said about him. I don't know how he resigns and still maintains dignity in his own eyes. unless his twisted brain is able to convince itself that his resigning is something of a win, I don't know how that happens. 
    Coming in to his term I wondered whether his inherited life would impact him in the area of patience...frustration at not getting instant gratification for every whim.  And I'm not the least bit surprised that this appears to be the case.  

    I tend to think that he likes the novelty of being president but hates the work.   And part of that novelty is being on the short list of people to hold the office.  The perception of these people is generally good as time goes on.  But what's Nixon remembered for?  Resigning.  Thirty years from now, I don't know that Clinton will be remembered for Monica, since he ultimately weathered the storm.  If he can avoid resignation, I am sure he (correctly) thinks that will have a positive impact on how he's regarded 30 years from now.  He doesn't want to be a President that resigned.

    The question is (assuming he does not leave early) how does he weigh his hatred of the job vs. the perception of himself not even running for a second term?  Since the office has had term limits has anyone chosen not to run for a second term?  It would be much less of a perception problem than resigning.  While I think he'd win re-election if he wins, I am starting to doubt he'll run again.  If he chooses not to run again, it will be really fun to hear the stated rationales.
    You really think trump will be looked on positively in the future? Come on. If he’s in four years the disasters will keep piling up. No one documenting this is writing anything positive about him. That’s what will go on the record. And I have no idea why you think he’d get re-elected. 
    There's two ways of looking at how positively he'll be looked at.  Will he be considered a good president?  No.  But 50 years from now, when most of us are dead and school kids are looking at all the presidential photos, he'll be on that list (which I think is like 50% of what he wanted out of this) and while actual historians will consider this a disaster, time will make him just one of the few...but leaving in disgrace (i.e., being removed or resigning) would be part of the basics of what we know about him.  Getting through two (or even one?) terms and he's not "that guy."  Do we know Andrew Jackson was a scumbag?  Sure.  Those of us interested in such things.  But he's on money.  By resigning, Trump becomes Nixon.  By sticking it out, he is more like W or someone.  The fact that he's a racist Twitter troll won't be reflected in civics class.

    As for 2020, if he decides to run again, underestimate his movement at our peril.  If the Dems (a party in absolute shambles) don't find a candidate that brings people out to the polls, yeah, he has a real shot.
    he will be primaried in 2020. if he survives all of this, bank on it.

    conventional wisdom is saying he is going to be indicted or he will resign if threatened with indictment.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
This discussion has been closed.