Donald Trump

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Comments

  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Trump Thought “On Many Sides” Statement Was Fine, Resisted Second Condemning White Nationalists

    Loath to appear to be admitting a mistake, Trump was reluctant to adjust his remarks. The president had indicated to advisers before his initial statement Saturday that he wanted to stress a need for law and order, which he did. He later expressed anger to those close to him about what he perceived as the media’s unfair assessment of his remarks, believing he had effectively denounced all forms of bigotry, according to outside advisers and White House officials.

    Several of Trump’s senior advisers, including new chief of staff John Kelly, had urged him to make a more specific condemnation, warning that the negative story would not go away and that the rising tide of criticism from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill could endanger his legislative agenda, according to two White House officials.

    Popular vote loser of the United States didn’t want or believe he needed to make his second statement actually condemning white supremacists Monday. tRump does not see what he did wrong the first time and one of the ways his chief of staff tried to convince him to denounce the KKK was to make clear to him that going soft on unbridled bigotry was bad politically for him. Kelly played to the president’s profound selfishness in reminding tRump that he personally would lose something—his “agenda” —if he didn’t do more to condemn the historical and ongoing scourge of white supremacist violence and intimidation.

    Sad.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    benjs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Honestly, I'm okay with leaving reminders of horrific days in public places, so long as there are opportunities to learn and not mistake them as current thoughts. In Spain to this day there are monuments identifying massacres relating to the Spanish Inquisition, with numbers of deceased and plaques explaining exactly what transpired, and usually a message of never forgetting. Also in Berlin, there's an infamous memorial to the murdered right in the city. 



    Much to the chagrin of my Jewish friends and family, I have no problem with someone carrying a swastika through the streets, because I am obligated not to have a problem with it, in the interest of promoting freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. Fight ideas with better ideas, and teach about truth, honesty, and equality.

    The more you ask someone to submit to their will, the more their ideas will fester - and with the ease of finding like-minded people to assemble thanks to the internet, that festering can lead to devastating and harmful results. I personally think it's better to ask people not to be afraid of sharing their true thoughts, and educating them on why their thoughts are incorrect. This is the only way to kill those deep-rooted notions of inequality.



    You are comparing memorials to statues of honour.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,616
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Timing might have been a factor.

    Left wing/ right wing ideological debate is legitimate, but challenging in the context of a woman protesting Nazis and getting killed by a coward for doing so.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    CM189191 said:
    Trump Thought “On Many Sides” Statement Was Fine, Resisted Second Condemning White Nationalists

    Loath to appear to be admitting a mistake, Trump was reluctant to adjust his remarks. The president had indicated to advisers before his initial statement Saturday that he wanted to stress a need for law and order, which he did. He later expressed anger to those close to him about what he perceived as the media’s unfair assessment of his remarks, believing he had effectively denounced all forms of bigotry, according to outside advisers and White House officials.

    Several of Trump’s senior advisers, including new chief of staff John Kelly, had urged him to make a more specific condemnation, warning that the negative story would not go away and that the rising tide of criticism from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill could endanger his legislative agenda, according to two White House officials.

    Popular vote loser of the United States didn’t want or believe he needed to make his second statement actually condemning white supremacists Monday. tRump does not see what he did wrong the first time and one of the ways his chief of staff tried to convince him to denounce the KKK was to make clear to him that going soft on unbridled bigotry was bad politically for him. Kelly played to the president’s profound selfishness in reminding tRump that he personally would lose something—his “agenda” —if he didn’t do more to condemn the historical and ongoing scourge of white supremacist violence and intimidation.

    Sad.
    No surprise here.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
    Okay I'm confused.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited August 2017
    dignin said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
    yes...bass guitar. Tom Morello. 
    prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou.
    they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows thou, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    Once again twisting words.  Where did I say that I think every liberal is an Antifa idiot?  There are a few around here that get defensive any time I even mention Antifa in negative light that, and you are right, I am guilty of "assuming" them to be part of the club.  
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
    yes...bass guitar. Tom Morello. 
    prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou.
    they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows those, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.
    Tom plays a mean lead guitar. What is this bass stuff?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
    yes...bass guitar. Tom Morello. 
    prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou.
    they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows thou, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.
    Bass has 4 strings.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    JC29856 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    JC29856 said:
    I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave
    Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?

    Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”

    https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-pearl-jam-drummer-tells-president-trump-supporter-pull-head-ass-shut/

    add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner. 
    Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
    Tom Morello?
    yes...
    On bass?......YES
    Guitar.
    yes...bass guitar. Tom Morello. 
    prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou.
    they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows those, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.
    Tom plays a mean lead guitar. What is this bass stuff?
    I don't know.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Timing might have been a factor.

    Left wing/ right wing ideological debate is legitimate, but challenging in the context of a woman protesting Nazis and getting killed by a coward for doing so.
    I forget, people need time to cry and express their anger before being able to carry on conversations.  I'll wait a day or two next time.  My bad...
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited August 2017
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    Once again twisting words.  Where did I say that I think every liberal is an Antifa idiot?  There are a few around here that get defensive any time I even mention Antifa in negative light that, and you are right, I am guilty of "assuming" them to be part of the club.  
    We are just pointing out that anti-fascists are not equivalent to Nazi's. Not even close....not in the same hemisphere, solar system, galaxy, universe.

    You think they are. You are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand?
    Post edited by dignin on
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Timing might have been a factor.

    Left wing/ right wing ideological debate is legitimate, but challenging in the context of a woman protesting Nazis and getting killed by a coward for doing so.
    I forget, people need time to cry and express their anger before being able to carry on conversations.  I'll wait a day or two next time.  My bad...
    Don't be like that.

    Right wing ideology was not under attack. Nazis were. Any defence put forth against the criticism they face is seen as a defence for them. It is that simple.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited August 2017
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    Once again twisting words.  Where did I say that I think every liberal is an Antifa idiot?  There are a few around here that get defensive any time I even mention Antifa in negative light that, and you are right, I am guilty of "assuming" them to be part of the club.  
    We are just pointing out that anti-fascists are not equivalent to Nazi's. Not even close....not in the same hemisphere, solar system, galaxy, universe.

    You think they are. You are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand.
    Hey, I am totally anti-fascist myself.  But this "Antifa" group is NOT that.  They fly under that flag, but their actions are the complete opposite.  They are a hate group if I've ever seen one.  Their rhetoric and methods are actually quite similar to what was seen with the "true" Nazis that our grandfathers fought.  Similarly to how some far right groups claim to be "Patriots" if you want to put it into context.  They are a violent hate group, nothing more, nothing less.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    Once again twisting words.  Where did I say that I think every liberal is an Antifa idiot?  There are a few around here that get defensive any time I even mention Antifa in negative light that, and you are right, I am guilty of "assuming" them to be part of the club.  
    We are just pointing out that anti-fascists are not equivalent to Nazi's. Not even close....not in the same hemisphere, solar system, galaxy, universe.

    You think they are. You are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand?

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJPOWER said:
    josevolution said:
    Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent ! 
    I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
    maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it. 
    False equivalency
    how so?

    you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary. 

    what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs. 
    Hey, I'm with you.  I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
    but that's not how it started. 

    -public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
    -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
    -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
    The anger, yes, the actions...no.  There is a difference.
    of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message. 
    Exactly!  That is the point I've been trying to make all along.  Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.  
    People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).

    Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play.  They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize.  It's par for the norm in these parts though.
    Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot. 
    Once again twisting words.  Where did I say that I think every liberal is an Antifa idiot?  There are a few around here that get defensive any time I even mention Antifa in negative light that, and you are right, I am guilty of "assuming" them to be part of the club.  
    We are just pointing out that anti-fascists are not equivalent to Nazi's. Not even close....not in the same hemisphere, solar system, galaxy, universe.

    You think they are. You are wrong. Why is that so hard to understand.
    Hey, I am totally anti-fascist myself.  But this "Antifa" group is NOT that.  They fly under that flag, but their actions are the complete opposite.  They are a hate group if I've ever seen one.  Similarly to how some far right groups claim to be "Patriots" if you want to put it into context.  They are a violent hate group, nothing more, nothing less.
    Who do they hate then?
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