Donald Trump

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

I'm a sucker for Nixon.  I read his books after he left office and it gave me a soft spot for him. 

I can't imagine tRump having any redeeming value to the country after he leaves office.   

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

Yes but he still had popular support amongst the general public. They didn't storm the capitol to prevent his resignation or to stave off his impeachment and conviction. Interesting read below but you know, polls.

It Took A Long Time For Republicans To Abandon Nixon | FiveThirtyEight

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

Yes but he still had popular support amongst the general public. They didn't storm the capitol to prevent his resignation or to stave off his impeachment and conviction. Interesting read below but you know, polls.

It Took A Long Time For Republicans To Abandon Nixon | FiveThirtyEight

Oh I believe the numbers, although polling certainly wasn't as consistent back then.  But as you know, Jefferson considered the House to be a rabble, an extension of the untrustworthy public.  They certainly did not trust citizens.  The senate was truly the world's great deliberate body and for most of our history, they acted as such, including during this period.  I truly hope that this was the issue that snaps the senate back to where they should be, the one embodied by men such as Romney who is an actual conservative, one who wants to conserve the Republic.  

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

I'm a sucker for Nixon.  I read his books after he left office and it gave me a soft spot for him. 

I can't imagine tRump having any redeeming value to the country after he leaves office.   

That's interesting.  The only thing I eve really read for that was the Hunter Thompson book Fear and Loathing on the Campaign trail '72.  I do not have a soft spot for him.  But I get it.  I read a book by Margaret George called "The Autobiography of Henry VIII".  It is a phenomenal book written from the POV of Henry.  And because of it, I have a soft spot for one of the most notorious but consequential figures of the last millennia.  

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

I'm a sucker for Nixon.  I read his books after he left office and it gave me a soft spot for him. 

I can't imagine tRump having any redeeming value to the country after he leaves office.   

That's interesting.  The only thing I eve really read for that was the Hunter Thompson book Fear and Loathing on the Campaign trail '72.  I do not have a soft spot for him.  But I get it.  I read a book by Margaret George called "The Autobiography of Henry VIII".  It is a phenomenal book written from the POV of Henry.  And because of it, I have a soft spot for one of the most notorious but consequential figures of the last millennia.  

His memoirs were great.

His best book (IMHO) was In the Arena....really good if you ever need something to read.

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

PJNB said:

mickeyrat said:

PJNB said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mitch-mcconnell-trump-impeachment.html

Starting to think he will actually get impeached by the senate now. Get fucked Trump

completely personally and party purpose and not because its right.

Absolutely. This is the best option they have for not splitting the party in 2024. Push him out now, not allow him to run in 2024, let the dust settle and hopefully his voters turn out for the new candidate. 

Who will probably be Hawley, Crenshaw, Hayley, or some other Trump boot-licker.  Maybe even someone named Trump. If the party doesn't split, it's going to remain the Party of Trump.

haha, after all this? you still think it's going to be the party of trump? mcconell is probably the one person on that side that can see the forest for the trees more than any of them. he's the best at what the does (in an awful way). if he's moved on and trump hasn't even left yet, the rest of the party will soon follow. matt gaetz and jim jordon are NOT going to be controlling members of that party. 

The problem is that most US conservatives are on board with these clowns. And they cannot stand Romney (and turn on anyone who isn't loyal to Trump).  That "reasonable conservative" we talk about exists but not in large numbers. If the primaries were to be held on January 21, a Trumplican would win. Granted, four years (well, really two years before we start the next circus again) is a long time, so I suppose there's a chance that things calm down and someone like Sasse gets the nomination.

Mitch is smart and I think he knows that what's best for the party is to smile at all the damage they've accomplished with (and before) Trump and try to steer the party back to normal "helping rich guys." But the party voters are pretty firmly ensconced in populism at this point and if holds up, there's not much Mitch can do about it.

that's just it, though. 4 years is a lifetime in politics. i foresee a lot of bluster from the trump kids (beavis and butthead primarily) over the next couple years, but not much else. 

after the dust settles, so many republicans are going to have lost so much support from their donors, trump family will get very little support moving forward. 

matt gaetz is going to be an embarrassing footnote in this period. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

I believe he still had a 40%+ approval rating and remained popular with repubs when he resigned. Nixon had pride, shame and a conscience.

The R were a strong minority in the senate so the votes weren't there for him to stay.  It was purely a math problem for him.  I think I've read that he had no more than 15 votes to stay.  

Yes but he still had popular support amongst the general public. They didn't storm the capitol to prevent his resignation or to stave off his impeachment and conviction. Interesting read below but you know, polls.

It Took A Long Time For Republicans To Abandon Nixon | FiveThirtyEight

Oh I believe the numbers, although polling certainly wasn't as consistent back then.  But as you know, Jefferson considered the House to be a rabble, an extension of the untrustworthy public.  They certainly did not trust citizens.  The senate was truly the world's great deliberate body and for most of our history, they acted as such, including during this period.  I truly hope that this was the issue that snaps the senate back to where they should be, the one embodied by men such as Romney who is an actual conservative, one who wants to conserve the Republic.  

Oh yea, the calm, slow, deliberate senate to keep the house in check. Weird thing is is that the founders put the electoral college in for similar reasons, to be a check on the rabble for only learned men could lead. Crazy systems we gots here. We need more Romney’s and less crud and rubes but me thinks it’s too late. This’ll take 10-15 years to recover from.

benjs

I think there are a few other Pod Save America listeners on here, but a recent opinion they made is one I couldn't agree more with - that if the GOP had an ounce of bravery, they would race towards impeachment, brand this as a 'grand reset', absolve themselves of culpability by being 'under his spell' for the past four years, and commit to a new honourable future. Or some other bullshit they don't mean.

It seems Mitch McConnell is realizing the gift this is, that Trump continues to unhinge himself so the GOP can look like the ethical ones by breaking ties with him and hopefully erase a good chunk of the past in the eyes of voters.

HughFreakingDillon

i agree ben. these idiots like gaetz continuing to go down with the ship will help them in the short term with trump and his cult, but in the long term, it will follow him like herpes. 

MayDay10

If only he said this earlier... oh wait

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/closing-argument-democrats-say-not-removing-trump-would-render-him-n1128766

HughFreakingDillon

The foreshadowing is incredible. 

Merkin Baller

This WaPo oped nails it. The only way this nation moves forward is if the GOP cops to the lies they’ve told about the election and admit that’s what caused last week’s violence. There’s no other way forward. These bullshit accusations about the Dems dividing the country while the GOP is openly inciting their followers to violence is batshit insanity. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/republicans-must-unambiguously-admit-that-trumps-lies-threaten-more-violence/
Edit: let me know if you need me to copy / paste the article. 

Jearlpam0925

HughFreakingDillon said:

i know it's impossible to compare the digital age to the 70's, but did nixon have any kind of cult like support? (besides roger stone)

Absolutely. Of course not on this level though. As I've said before, ultimately, the original team of Richard Nixon and Roger Ailes is why we are where we are today.

HughFreakingDillon

Merkin Baller said:

This WaPo oped nails it. The only way this nation moves forward is if the GOP cops to the lies they’ve told about the election and admit that’s what caused last week’s violence. There’s no other way forward. These bullshit accusations about the Dems dividing the country while the GOP is openly inciting their followers to violence is batshit insanity. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/republicans-must-unambiguously-admit-that-trumps-lies-threaten-more-violence/
Edit: let me know if you need me to copy / paste the article. 

please do! would love to read it

rgambs

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I feel bad for Nixon.  His shit was NOTHING compared to this.  He was actually a decent president.  He expanded the earned income credit big time.

He took us off the gold standard, stop it.

Ha! It's been 50 years and nothing has really come of it, time to move on lol

Merkin Baller

Republicans must unambiguously admit that Trump’s lies threaten more violence

President Trump talks to reporters outside the White House on Tuesday. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)

Opinion by Greg Sargent

Columnist

Jan. 12, 2021 at 4:39 p.m. EST

Alarming new details are emerging about the true nature of the violent insurrection that we witnessed last week — and the critical point about this insurrection is that it is ongoing.

This raises the stakes on what we’re seeing from many Republicans, who are working to obscure the true source of this ongoing threat. By piously calling for “unity,” and claiming impeachment will “divide” us, they are striving to manufacture the impression that the cause of our ongoing breakdown is some species of generalized division.

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In fact, it’s a straight cause-and-effect: One side (Trump and his democracy-despising enablers who are still trying to illegitimately overturn the election’s outcome) is threatening and inciting violence against the other (those who stand for constitutional democracy and are affirming the legitimacy of that outcome).

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This has now been crystallized by none other than a senior Republican congressional staffer. Politico reports that Jason Schmid has resigned from the House Foreign Affairs Committee with a blistering letter attacking his party’s efforts to overturn the election.

Schmid argued in his letter that Republicans had failed to sufficiently condemn the insurrection. I want to highlight this:

The sad, incontrovertible truth is that the people who laid siege to the Capitol were and continue to be domestic enemies of the Constitution of the United States. A poisonous lie that the election was illegitimate and should be overturned inspired so called “patriots” to share common cause with white supremacists, neo-Nazis and conspiracy theorists to attack the seat of American government.

GOP lawmakers who voted to overturn the election, Schmid charged, “harmed the ability of every service member, intelligence officer, and diplomat to defend the nation and advance American interests.”

What’s important here is the unflinching acknowledgment of two things: First, the claim by Trump and his enablers that he won is a deranged lie and anyone telling it is an enemy of U.S. constitutional democracy. Second, this lie is what incited the violent siege of the Capitol.

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That is what many Republicans will not say, and it’s why this letter is important news. Different Republicans are at different places on this spectrum of denial. For instance, while just about all will condemn the violence, some are still refusing to admit either that Joe Biden legitimately won the election or that Trump’s lies are the primary source of the violence.

Meanwhile, others will admit Biden won but still refuse to forthrightly admit to the threat that Trump’s lies pose. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (Calif.) sort of admits Trump might have caused the violence, but to do so, he hides behind the claim that Trump himself privately admitted to this, which is highly implausible.

And Rep. Kevin Brady (Tex.) concedes Biden’s victory but claims that impeachment could “incite further violence.” That has menacing hints — hold Trump accountable for inciting violence and you’ll meet more violence! — but more to the point, it’s straight-up obfuscation of the actual threat, which comes from Trump’s incitement.

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Trump is enforcing this line among Republicans. He told reporters on Tuesday that “I want no violence” and that Democrats pursuing impeachment are “causing tremendous anger.”

There’s that veiled threat again — Hold me accountable for inciting violence and you’ll meet more violence! — but it’s also a command to Republicans: Keep denying that I’m the chief instigator of the violence, and keep claiming the real threat of incitement comes from Democrats.

All this comes as the threat is starting to look even more dire. The Post reports that the day before the assault, an FBI office in Virginia warned that hordes were heading to Washington to wage “war”:

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A situational information report approved for release the day before the U.S. Capitol riot painted a dire portrait of dangerous plans, including individuals sharing a map of the complex’s tunnels, and possible rally points for would-be conspirators to meet up in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and South Carolina and head in groups to Washington.

Meanwhile, The Post’s report notes, federal agents are “in a state of high-alert” about possible violence at Biden’s inauguration. And the FBI has warned in another memo that “armed protests” are planned “at all 50 state capitols.”

Trump’s lies about the election, echoed by his enablers, are the cause of this threat. And a great many Republicans simply refuse to say this.

Making this worse, as Simon Rosenberg points out, countless elected GOP officials are already on record having propped up these lies for months. The only way to reverse this is to flatly and unequivocally declare that those were lies and that Biden legitimately won:

I would add that Republicans must also say unequivocally that this lie caused last week’s violence, and that it threatens untold more to come.

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Republicans’ calls for “unity” are conditional: Unity can only be premised on a blanket agreement not to acknowledge the truth about who and what are actually to blame for violently tearing the country in half. Until Republicans tell the truth about all of this, their professed hopes for unity are empty nonsense, to be treated with derisive contempt.

23scidoo

Bentleyspop said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

Sheldon Adelson dead...

Fucking Soros.

As a Soros agent I can tell you unequivocally that we were all in the basement of Comet Pizza planning the next Antifa insurrection and  nowhere near Las Vegas.

Talking about Soros isn't funny..

23scidoo

When you find the truth, let us know please..

https://www.facebook.com/100057309213974/videos/152924039961236/

mickeyrat

you expect sone kind of answers from a 9 second video with no context?

23scidoo

mickeyrat said:

you expect sone kind of answers from a 9 second video with no context?

I wasn't talking about the video but general about what happend..