Donald Trump

OnWis97

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.

The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.

Ledbetterman10

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.

The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.

Well that all makes sense since you're coming from the a POV that Trump wins in November. But I don't think he has a chance. I know it's still four months away and a lot can change. But I just can't fathom Trump winning any new support. And it's his own dumb fault. If he went along with Covid precautions, voters that were against him might've felt that he was showing leadership. But nope, he all-but-suggested that wearing a mask makes you a pussy. He's changing his tune on that now, but it's too late. He also could have taken advantage of the George Floyd thing by trying to be a mediator between protesters and police (I know, he's incapable of something like that, but this is just a hypothetical). But no, he fanned the flames of division even further. 

As I've been saying, he's going to lose Texas and thus, in my opinion, it's going to be a landslide victory for.....um.....who's he running against again?

Ledbetterman10

Joe Biden. That's right. He's running against Joe Biden. Almost forgot. 

jeffbr

Poncier said:

Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.

Anyone have any polls? I would honestly be curious.  I've never seen any that show that Pence has any sort of national electability. Sure he can win a midwestern Christian block, but he wouldn't have any shot with the godless heathens on the coasts. I remember prior to the primaries a poll showing Biden beating Pence by a wide margin in Ohio, but don't recall ever seeing a national poll about Pence in a general election against Biden.

pjhawks

I don't see Trump dropping out but if he did is Pence automatically the Republican nominee?  If it was before the Convention couldn't they nominate someone else?

Gern Blansten

pjhawks said:

I don't see Trump dropping out but if he did is Pence automatically the Republican nominee?  If it was before the Convention couldn't they nominate someone else?

Yes they would go through a nomination process.  I can't imagine anyone other than Pence wanting to enter that bloodbath though.

OnWis97

Ledbetterman10 said:

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.

The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.

Well that all makes sense since you're coming from the a POV that Trump wins in November. But I don't think he has a chance. I know it's still four months away and a lot can change. But I just can't fathom Trump winning any new support. And it's his own dumb fault. If he went along with Covid precautions, voters that were against him might've felt that he was showing leadership. But nope, he all-but-suggested that wearing a mask makes you a pussy. He's changing his tune on that now, but it's too late. He also could have taken advantage of the George Floyd thing by trying to be a mediator between protesters and police (I know, he's incapable of something like that, but this is just a hypothetical). But no, he fanned the flames of division even further. 

As I've been saying, he's going to lose Texas and thus, in my opinion, it's going to be a landslide victory for.....um.....who's he running against again?

Well, even if I think he's going to win, I can agree with this.  Any "brilliant politician" that plays "3D" chess should have been able to make himself look much, much better.  He didn't see that most people are actually interested in at least mitigating Covid and the opportunity he had to bring everyone together. Most importantly, in this case and in almost all cases, as good as he is at getting his base more and more devoted to him, he doesn't understand how to widen that net. It reminds me of this kid I knew in middle school.  He was a good writer; loved to write and was gliding toward an A in English.  He was struggling with math...barely going to pass.  An he just put all of his effort into the English class. He didn't just get an A; he got an A with room to spare.  That's what Trump's been doing.  Roughly a third of the country (SAD!) will vote for him under any imaginable circumstances.  He seems to equate the same people approving of him so vociferously with broader support.  He's going to get that third to love him even more, but he doesn't seem too worried about the other 66% (in reality, he's probably just infringe all of the positive responses to his meltdowns as being broader than they are).  By bringing us together on Covid and talking out of both sides of his mouth about police (like a decent politician could do) he could have put himself in position to win 45 states. GWB was reelected in 2004 because of 2001.  Trump wasted an opportunity to be the leader we needed in 2020...well, in theory.  In reality, he's not capable.  This is the problem when you rely on division and domestic enemies to thrive; you fail when the country needs to be unified.

Gern Blansten

jeffbr said:

Poncier said:

Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.

Anyone have any polls? I would honestly be curious.  I've never seen any that show that Pence has any sort of national electability. Sure he can win a midwestern Christian block, but he wouldn't have any shot with the godless heathens on the coasts. I remember prior to the primaries a poll showing Biden beating Pence by a wide margin in Ohio, but don't recall ever seeing a national poll about Pence in a general election against Biden.

Pence would not have won re-election as Gov of Indiana if tRump wouldn't have picked him for VP.  He generated as much hatred as tRump does nationally.

ikiT

Poncier said:

Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.

Does he?  His failed policies (immigration bad, obamacare bad, LGBTQ+ bad, socialism bad, tax cuts for the rich good, police, police, police good, keep the private prisons full, all of MAGA really) are carbon copies of failed Trumpolicies. 
I don't think he could carry his own state.

On his way to getting STOMPED Trumpito gonna replace him with someone WAY shinier in Sept. 

ikiT

I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.

Gern Blansten

ikiT said:

I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.

That is Pence's only saving grace.  I would trust him making military decisions more than tRump.  That's about it though.  He's the worst kind of christian.  He tells you how much god means to him and then does the exact opposite of what such a person should do.

OnWis97

ikiT said:

I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.

That's another piece of whether Pence would have a better shot: Trump went to Russia for money when he could not get money here.  Vlad has him by the short-hairs.  Would Russia bother trying to help Pence out?  Maybe; Pence probably knows enough that he's beholden, too.

The Juggler

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Halifax2TheMax

Who here is surprised?

July 2, 2020 at 10:48 a.m. EDT

President Trump’s nominee to be ambassador to Norway is facing demands that he abandon his pursuit of the diplomatic post following the unearthing of a 1994 court filing indicating his involvement in the production of a racist campaign flier against an African American politician in Georgia.

According to the filing, Mark Burkhalter helped create a flier that distorted and exaggerated the features of Gordon Joyner, a candidate for county commissioner in north-central Georgia. Joyner was pictured with some features darkened, a large Afro, enlarged eyebrows and a warped eye.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-pick-for-ambassador-involved-in-racist-smear-against-black-politician/2020/07/02/3505e15a-bc13-11ea-86d5-3b9b3863273b_story.html

Gern Blansten

The Juggler said:

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  

The Juggler

Gern Blansten said:

The Juggler said:

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  

Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

OnWis97

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

The Juggler said:

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  

Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

Hard to say. A year ago, his popularity may have been about where Trump's was; maybe a bit higher since some people are pretty horrified about Trump's bizarre behavior.

Pence probably has the wherewithal to have taken better advantage of the opportunity that Covid provided...he might have been able to pull off a Dubya-9/11.  So the more I think about it, the more I think he could have been around 50%.  I don't think he'd have been able to navigate the Floyd murder and subsequent unrest better than Trump did, though.

The Juggler

OnWis97 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

The Juggler said:

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  

Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

Hard to say. A year ago, his popularity may have been about where Trump's was; maybe a bit higher since some people are pretty horrified about Trump's bizarre behavior.

Pence probably has the wherewithal to have taken better advantage of the opportunity that Covid provided...he might have been able to pull off a Dubya-9/11.  So the more I think about it, the more I think he could have been around 50%.  I don't think he'd have been able to navigate the Floyd murder and subsequent unrest better than Trump did, though.

Blasphemy. My 5 year old nephew would have handled that better. Literally not tweeting and retweeting racist shit is the bar he would have to clear to do a better job than Trump on that stuff. 

mrussel1

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

The Juggler said:

If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 

Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  

Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

Pence ignored the HIV hotspot bubbling in Indiana and actually removed the needle exchange program.  So you never know, he may have ignored this.  Or maybe because it wasn't drug users, he would not have. 

cutz

Canada?

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1278693185745715200?s=09