Donald Trump

1190019011903190519061952

Comments

  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 26,025
    ikiT said:
    Hey YO.

    I been down and out with the Covid since last FRI...did I miss anything important?
    Not too much Mar-turdo got served with warrant lol 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 26,025
    Yeah screw the MAGA idiots who will seek violence they should be stomped the fuck out! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,428
    I don't know what kind of guy Ricky Shiffer was in 2015. Probably not my kind of guy, but I bet killing FBI agents wasn't on his mind. He died losing his mind in response to lies being told to him by his favorite politicians and (using the term loosely) media. He was a sucker, but he couldn't have done it without Margie, Lauren, etc. and whatever semi-underground "news" he follows.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 10,524
    So now they wanna de-fund the FBI?  

    These people really are some kinda special.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,428
    ikiT said:
    So now they wanna de-fund the FBI?  

    These people really are some kinda special.
    Enforcing non-violent drug laws:  :)
    Enforcing espionage laws:  :o
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 11,358

    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 
    2021 Encore 1&2
    2022 Fresno, Sacramento, Vegas, Vienna, Prague, Amsterdam 1, Amsterdam 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, New York City

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    So, did POOTWH deliver? Have we seen the search warrant and itemized inventory? Where is it? I demand transparency! Is Faux reading it out loud? Is Maggie Three Names and Lorena Bobbitt waving it around like a knife saying see, see, see, nothing there? POOTWH take to the mic to explain the what and how and answer questions from the press?

    Where is it?! 
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,211
    edited August 12
    PJNB said:

    that's fucking disgusting if true. 
    I think I'll move to Australia


  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 11,358
    PJNB said:
    PJNB said:
    The point is though if there are ways around it plenty of people would have to be involved and the FBI would be aware of the declassification. 

    They are looking for classified documents.
    The point is his staff said in may he did declassify them before leaving office. There isn’t any paperwork needed according to many. That’s kind of the problem.  It all goes back to presidents not following historical suggestions of what they should do and processes they should follow. You can call them classified or unclassified and it doesn’t matter. That’s up to the Supreme Court as to if they are or aren’t as it goes to authority/process to declassify 

    They are looking for documents that belong to the national archives for sure. Either way, they are theirs  

    as big of a POS trump is, If I was betting my money goes on no conviction and probably no charges filed as it’s not even clear to me what crime he committed that  both has a criminal enforcement component and will survive a Supreme Court challenge. You need not only a unanimous jury verdict but also 5 Supreme Court votes.
    The Atomic Energy Acts say he can not declassify though. It is very clear. 
    Has it been challenged? Not that I’m aware of 

    a law is meaningless if a challenge to the presidential authority to declassify is brought. It’s an unconstitutional law in that case. It’s the legislative branch taking power from the executive branch. National security is primarily a function of the executive 

    Unitary executive theory rooted in the constitution says the president can, as he controls the entire executive branch.  
    It’s a legal theory many support including several on the supreme court 

    we are way too caught up in laws while ignoring the fact congress can pass a law that makes observing taco Tuesday mandatory.  Doesn’t mean it won’t get tossed at the Supreme Court.  It could be a law though 
    We're, general we, are too caught up in giving POOTWH a pass with the "what if's," "maybes," "its never been challenged," etc., etc., etc. Hold the POS accountable and make him defend himself or sue or go to court to get what he believes is rightfully his. Stand up to the fucking guy and when he wins and the US becomes a fascist state with a string of authoritarians at the helm, we'll, well, some of us, will know who to blame and how we got where we are. Otherwise, we, general we, might as well just roll the fuck over. Let Clearance Thomas and Brett Kavanaught destroy democracy.
    It’s not a what if.

    the standard shouldn’t be the atomic energy act,  it should be can the constraints the atomic energy act puts on a sitting president pass a Supreme Court challenge.  It’s clearly a separation of powers issue 

    that’s exactly where it’s going if you bring that case 

    you cannot point to a law and then not ask where using that law will end up 

    if they feel they can win at the supreme court, great. I’m not sure the do or can though 
    It’s a “what if,” until it’s decided by SCOTUS. Doing nothing is not an option. There is history and protocol, as well as past practice by all previous administrations since the birth of the bomb. Let the constitutional purists own it. Like the Founders envisioned nuclear weapons but okay. Let them be responsible for the ensuing shit show to follow if 87 years of precedence gets tossed aside because POOTWH decides to break another norm.
    All I’ve been saying since the beginning is they got the documents back.

     In whatever legal/political calculation they are now making getting the documents may have been enough.  None of the possible roads lead to a good outcome.  You are choosing between multiple terrible options all of which will have negative long term consequences 

    it’s entirely possible and more than a bit likely it ends here 

    to me all this “it’s a slam dunk case” stuff is far more speculative and “what if” because it puts it in a neat little box and skips over the profound and complex constitutional concerns that are real
    The criminal laws Section 793 Section 1519 and Section 2071 do not change if the item in question is classified or declassified. All of this does not matter. 


    As Charlie Savage at The New York Times summarized:

    The search warrant for Trump's residence cited three criminal laws, all from Title 18 of the United States Code. Section 793, better known as the Espionage Act, which covers the unlawful retention of defense-related information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary; Section 1519, which covers destroying or concealing documents to obstruct government investigations or administrative proceedings; and Section 2071, which covers the unlawful removal of government records. Notably, none of those laws turn on whether information was deemed to be unclassified.

    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 
    2021 Encore 1&2
    2022 Fresno, Sacramento, Vegas, Vienna, Prague, Amsterdam 1, Amsterdam 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, New York City

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HOU-->PDX-->KCPosts: 36,333
    PJNB said:

    that's fucking disgusting if true. 
    Yup, it sure is. He is a true POS human.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,838
    edited August 12
    Espionage Act.  Go directly to prison.  How are the GOP going to spin this?  Planted evidence or Trump has the right to take what he wants?  fuckers.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,428
    Even if people believe it ("It was Planted!"), I really don't think having documents he should not have is going to resonate with moderates (and certainly not with conservatives). "He had some papers? Big deal."  

    For this to ever amount to anything, proof that he distributed something to a foreign agent is needed (even then, they'll just scream "Planted!"). Otherwise, despite the word "espionage," people are going to think of this as pretty much an administrative violation of sorts (like when the outgoing Clinton staff took the "W's" off of the White House keyboards."

    For this to really matter to Joe Schmo, illegally keeping papers, regardless of what those papers are, just isn't going to be enough.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,826

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    OnWis97 said:
    Even if people believe it ("It was Planted!"), I really don't think having documents he should not have is going to resonate with moderates (and certainly not with conservatives). "He had some papers? Big deal."  

    For this to ever amount to anything, proof that he distributed something to a foreign agent is needed (even then, they'll just scream "Planted!"). Otherwise, despite the word "espionage," people are going to think of this as pretty much an administrative violation of sorts (like when the outgoing Clinton staff took the "W's" off of the White House keyboards."

    For this to really matter to Joe Schmo, illegally keeping papers, regardless of what those papers are, just isn't going to be enough.
    But it shouldn’t be up to Joe Schmo. It should be up to a court with a judge and jury, despite POOTWH appealing everything, every step of the way to SCOTUS.

    Brionna Taylor wishes she was afforded the same courtesy, deference and benefit of the doubt and awe shucksness.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 26,694

     
    FBI seized 'top secret' documents from Trump home
    By MICHAEL BALSAMO, ZEKE MILLER and ERIC TUCKER
    39 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The FBI recovered documents that were labeled “top secret” from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, according to court papers released Friday after a federal judge unsealed the warrant that authorized the unprecedented search this week.

    property receipt unsealed by the court shows FBI agents took 11 sets of classified records from the estate during a search on Monday.

    The seized records include some marked not only top secret but also “sensitive compartmented information,” a special category meant to protect the nation's most important secrets that if revealed publicly could cause “exceptionally grave” damage to U.S. interests. The court records did not provide specific details about information the documents might contain.

    The warrant says federal agents were investigating potential violations of three different federal laws, including one that governs gathering, transmitting or losing defense information under the Espionage Act. The other statutes address the concealment, mutilation or removal of records and the destruction, alteration or falsification of records in federal investigations.

    The property receipt also shows federal agents collected other potential presidential records, including the order pardoning Trump ally Roger Stone, a “leatherbound box of documents,” and information about the “President of France.” A binder of photos, a handwritten note, “miscellaneous secret documents” and “miscellaneous confidential documents” were also seized in the search.

    Trump’s attorney, Christina Bobb, who was present at Mar-a-Lago when the agents conducted the search, signed two property receipts — one that was two pages long and another that is a single page.

    In a statement earlier Friday, Trump claimed that the documents seized by agents were “all declassified,” and argued that he would have turned them over if the Justice Department had asked.

    While incumbent presidents generally have the power to declassify information, that authority lapses as soon as they leave office and it was not clear if the documents in question have ever been declassified. And even an incumbent's powers to declassify may be limited regarding secrets dealing with nuclear weapons programs, covert operations and operatives, and some data shared with allies.

    Trump kept possession of the documents despite multiple requests from agencies, including the National Archives, to turn over presidential records in accordance with federal law.

    The Mar-a-Lago search warrant served Monday was part of an ongoing Justice Department investigation into the discovery of classified White House records recovered from Trump’s home earlier this year. The Archives had asked the department to investigate after saying 15 boxes of records it retrieved from the estate included classified records.



    continues.....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    mickeyrat said:

     
    FBI seized 'top secret' documents from Trump home
    By MICHAEL BALSAMO, ZEKE MILLER and ERIC TUCKER
    39 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The FBI recovered documents that were labeled “top secret” from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, according to court papers released Friday after a federal judge unsealed the warrant that authorized the unprecedented search this week.

    property receipt unsealed by the court shows FBI agents took 11 sets of classified records from the estate during a search on Monday.

    The seized records include some marked not only top secret but also “sensitive compartmented information,” a special category meant to protect the nation's most important secrets that if revealed publicly could cause “exceptionally grave” damage to U.S. interests. The court records did not provide specific details about information the documents might contain.

    The warrant says federal agents were investigating potential violations of three different federal laws, including one that governs gathering, transmitting or losing defense information under the Espionage Act. The other statutes address the concealment, mutilation or removal of records and the destruction, alteration or falsification of records in federal investigations.

    The property receipt also shows federal agents collected other potential presidential records, including the order pardoning Trump ally Roger Stone, a “leatherbound box of documents,” and information about the “President of France.” A binder of photos, a handwritten note, “miscellaneous secret documents” and “miscellaneous confidential documents” were also seized in the search.

    Trump’s attorney, Christina Bobb, who was present at Mar-a-Lago when the agents conducted the search, signed two property receipts — one that was two pages long and another that is a single page.

    In a statement earlier Friday, Trump claimed that the documents seized by agents were “all declassified,” and argued that he would have turned them over if the Justice Department had asked.

    While incumbent presidents generally have the power to declassify information, that authority lapses as soon as they leave office and it was not clear if the documents in question have ever been declassified. And even an incumbent's powers to declassify may be limited regarding secrets dealing with nuclear weapons programs, covert operations and operatives, and some data shared with allies.

    Trump kept possession of the documents despite multiple requests from agencies, including the National Archives, to turn over presidential records in accordance with federal law.

    The Mar-a-Lago search warrant served Monday was part of an ongoing Justice Department investigation into the discovery of classified White House records recovered from Trump’s home earlier this year. The Archives had asked the department to investigate after saying 15 boxes of records it retrieved from the estate included classified records.



    continues.....

    Arrest the traitor.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,214
    PJNB said:

    that's fucking disgusting if true. 
    did anybody really expect that trump would not doxx those agents though? so on brand. the cruelty.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,214
    OnWis97 said:
    Even if people believe it ("It was Planted!"), I really don't think having documents he should not have is going to resonate with moderates (and certainly not with conservatives). "He had some papers? Big deal."  

    For this to ever amount to anything, proof that he distributed something to a foreign agent is needed (even then, they'll just scream "Planted!"). Otherwise, despite the word "espionage," people are going to think of this as pretty much an administrative violation of sorts (like when the outgoing Clinton staff took the "W's" off of the White House keyboards."

    For this to really matter to Joe Schmo, illegally keeping papers, regardless of what those papers are, just isn't going to be enough.
    how does it feel to know that kid rock has probably seen all of that classified stuff?
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,214
    mickeyrat said:

     
    FBI seized 'top secret' documents from Trump home
    By MICHAEL BALSAMO, ZEKE MILLER and ERIC TUCKER
    39 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The FBI recovered documents that were labeled “top secret” from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, according to court papers released Friday after a federal judge unsealed the warrant that authorized the unprecedented search this week.

    property receipt unsealed by the court shows FBI agents took 11 sets of classified records from the estate during a search on Monday.

    The seized records include some marked not only top secret but also “sensitive compartmented information,” a special category meant to protect the nation's most important secrets that if revealed publicly could cause “exceptionally grave” damage to U.S. interests. The court records did not provide specific details about information the documents might contain.

    The warrant says federal agents were investigating potential violations of three different federal laws, including one that governs gathering, transmitting or losing defense information under the Espionage Act. The other statutes address the concealment, mutilation or removal of records and the destruction, alteration or falsification of records in federal investigations.

    The property receipt also shows federal agents collected other potential presidential records, including the order pardoning Trump ally Roger Stone, a “leatherbound box of documents,” and information about the “President of France.” A binder of photos, a handwritten note, “miscellaneous secret documents” and “miscellaneous confidential documents” were also seized in the search.

    Trump’s attorney, Christina Bobb, who was present at Mar-a-Lago when the agents conducted the search, signed two property receipts — one that was two pages long and another that is a single page.

    In a statement earlier Friday, Trump claimed that the documents seized by agents were “all declassified,” and argued that he would have turned them over if the Justice Department had asked.

    While incumbent presidents generally have the power to declassify information, that authority lapses as soon as they leave office and it was not clear if the documents in question have ever been declassified. And even an incumbent's powers to declassify may be limited regarding secrets dealing with nuclear weapons programs, covert operations and operatives, and some data shared with allies.

    Trump kept possession of the documents despite multiple requests from agencies, including the National Archives, to turn over presidential records in accordance with federal law.

    The Mar-a-Lago search warrant served Monday was part of an ongoing Justice Department investigation into the discovery of classified White House records recovered from Trump’s home earlier this year. The Archives had asked the department to investigate after saying 15 boxes of records it retrieved from the estate included classified records.



    continues.....

    Arrest the traitor.
    the rosenbergs would like another word right now.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • static111static111 Posts: 3,979
    Espionage Act is a joke.  I am not sure that it has ever made citizens safer, but it sure has been weaponized to punish whistleblowers telling us about the deplorable things that our government gets up to.  I'm no fan of 45, but justifying this with the espionage act is about as stupid as expanding the definition of terrorism to be pretty much anyone sympathetic to anything that counters the official state narratives.  There's no question that real justifiable wrongdoing happened at some point in the Trump organization, but violating the espionage act. come on, like Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Daniel Hale, Edward Snowden, Eugene Debs.  Do better find some real dirt and prove it.  If he was truly selling recipes on how to make nuclear bombs I will eat my hat as they say, but I am not buying it.


    The fact that any citizen is ok that there is certain information that we shouldn't be allowed to see because intelligence agencies with a track record of violating civil rights of citizens at home and abroad and supporting far right extremists and toppling governments around the globe deem it "classified" astounds me.  I think it is important for Joe Schmo to weigh in on things like this.  It's important for John and Sally Q Public to weigh in on everything.  Classified seems to mean things we don't want you to know the state does.

    Exceptionally grave danger to US interests...what are our interests anymore, exploiting other countries resources and supplying the world with lots of arms and little "security"

    Fi

    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    static111 said:
    Espionage Act is a joke.  I am not sure that it has ever made citizens safer, but it sure has been weaponized to punish whistleblowers telling us about the deplorable things that our government gets up to.  I'm no fan of 45, but justifying this with the espionage act is about as stupid as expanding the definition of terrorism to be pretty much anyone sympathetic to anything that counters the official state narratives.  There's no question that real justifiable wrongdoing happened at some point in the Trump organization, but violating the espionage act. come on, like Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Daniel Hale, Edward Snowden, Eugene Debs.  Do better find some real dirt and prove it.  If he was truly selling recipes on how to make nuclear bombs I will eat my hat as they say, but I am not buying it.


    The fact that any citizen is ok that there is certain information that we shouldn't be allowed to see because intelligence agencies with a track record of violating civil rights of citizens at home and abroad and supporting far right extremists and toppling governments around the globe deem it "classified" astounds me.  I think it is important for Joe Schmo to weigh in on things like this.  It's important for John and Sally Q Public to weigh in on everything.  Classified seems to mean things we don't want you to know the state does.

    Exceptionally grave danger to US interests...what are our interests anymore, exploiting other countries resources and supplying the world with lots of arms and little "security"

    Fi

    Every instance you listed could have been handled differently and perhaps gotten the same or different results. Joe Schmo has a say, it’s called voting. And whether you like it or not, there are people and governments that want to commit acts of violence against us, not because of some aggrieved past but because they hate our ideals. If everything should be known and shared, let’s just cut to the chase and give nukes to the Taliban, Iran, and anyone else, your neighbor perhaps.

    The world is a shitty, dangerous place and no doubt the US contributed to that but that doesn’t mean we should role over and submit for our past transgressions. 
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • static111static111 Posts: 3,979
    static111 said:
    Espionage Act is a joke.  I am not sure that it has ever made citizens safer, but it sure has been weaponized to punish whistleblowers telling us about the deplorable things that our government gets up to.  I'm no fan of 45, but justifying this with the espionage act is about as stupid as expanding the definition of terrorism to be pretty much anyone sympathetic to anything that counters the official state narratives.  There's no question that real justifiable wrongdoing happened at some point in the Trump organization, but violating the espionage act. come on, like Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Daniel Hale, Edward Snowden, Eugene Debs.  Do better find some real dirt and prove it.  If he was truly selling recipes on how to make nuclear bombs I will eat my hat as they say, but I am not buying it.


    The fact that any citizen is ok that there is certain information that we shouldn't be allowed to see because intelligence agencies with a track record of violating civil rights of citizens at home and abroad and supporting far right extremists and toppling governments around the globe deem it "classified" astounds me.  I think it is important for Joe Schmo to weigh in on things like this.  It's important for John and Sally Q Public to weigh in on everything.  Classified seems to mean things we don't want you to know the state does.

    Exceptionally grave danger to US interests...what are our interests anymore, exploiting other countries resources and supplying the world with lots of arms and little "security"

    Fi

    Every instance you listed could have been handled differently and perhaps gotten the same or different results. Joe Schmo has a say, it’s called voting. And whether you like it or not, there are people and governments that want to commit acts of violence against us, not because of some aggrieved past but because they hate our ideals. If everything should be known and shared, let’s just cut to the chase and give nukes to the Taliban, Iran, and anyone else, your neighbor perhaps.

    The world is a shitty, dangerous place and no doubt the US contributed to that but that doesn’t mean we should role over and submit for our past transgressions. 
    Sorry but I haven't bought that they hate us because of our freedom and ideals since before "Never Forget" day and the ensuing patriotic fervor.  Most of the attacks against us have been from real grievances caused by our governments past missteps in geopolitical matters and colonialism that we seem to have still not learned from.

    I want Trump to pay for his crimes as much as anyone, but if all that we have is records technicalities, just let it go and stop wasting energy and time and tax dollars on it.  Take away the oxygen and the fire will die.  All this attention given to Trump feeds his persona and the cult.  Find real crimes.  

    Like I said if he was literally selling bomb recipes to people that have a real reason to want to harm the US because of our past transgressions, send him to jail do not pass go etc.  But using the Espionage Act to weaponize a record keeping technicality and shrouding everything in secrecy and speculations is not going to serve true justice, and if anything will just give more fuel to the Trump fire.

    Find real crimes, or starve the fire of it's fuel. 
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,180
    static111 said:
    Espionage Act is a joke.  I am not sure that it has ever made citizens safer, but it sure has been weaponized to punish whistleblowers telling us about the deplorable things that our government gets up to.  I'm no fan of 45, but justifying this with the espionage act is about as stupid as expanding the definition of terrorism to be pretty much anyone sympathetic to anything that counters the official state narratives.  There's no question that real justifiable wrongdoing happened at some point in the Trump organization, but violating the espionage act. come on, like Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Daniel Hale, Edward Snowden, Eugene Debs.  Do better find some real dirt and prove it.  If he was truly selling recipes on how to make nuclear bombs I will eat my hat as they say, but I am not buying it.


    The fact that any citizen is ok that there is certain information that we shouldn't be allowed to see because intelligence agencies with a track record of violating civil rights of citizens at home and abroad and supporting far right extremists and toppling governments around the globe deem it "classified" astounds me.  I think it is important for Joe Schmo to weigh in on things like this.  It's important for John and Sally Q Public to weigh in on everything.  Classified seems to mean things we don't want you to know the state does.

    Exceptionally grave danger to US interests...what are our interests anymore, exploiting other countries resources and supplying the world with lots of arms and little "security"

    Fi

    Every instance you listed could have been handled differently and perhaps gotten the same or different results. Joe Schmo has a say, it’s called voting. And whether you like it or not, there are people and governments that want to commit acts of violence against us, not because of some aggrieved past but because they hate our ideals. If everything should be known and shared, let’s just cut to the chase and give nukes to the Taliban, Iran, and anyone else, your neighbor perhaps.

    The world is a shitty, dangerous place and no doubt the US contributed to that but that doesn’t mean we should role over and submit for our past transgressions. 
    Agreed.  Arguing that all defense intelligence, secrets, plans, etc. should be public is patently absurd.  Let's do a thought experiment. 

    What if it was okay to publicize that the US and Britain had obtained the Enigma machine?  Think the war would have been over in 45?  How many more soldiers would it take?  Would we have won at all?

    What if it perfectly okay for the Rosenbergs to hand over secrets to the Soviets. And if fact, since it's public, why wouldn't you monetize it?  

    Crazy talk. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Espionage Act is a joke.  I am not sure that it has ever made citizens safer, but it sure has been weaponized to punish whistleblowers telling us about the deplorable things that our government gets up to.  I'm no fan of 45, but justifying this with the espionage act is about as stupid as expanding the definition of terrorism to be pretty much anyone sympathetic to anything that counters the official state narratives.  There's no question that real justifiable wrongdoing happened at some point in the Trump organization, but violating the espionage act. come on, like Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Daniel Hale, Edward Snowden, Eugene Debs.  Do better find some real dirt and prove it.  If he was truly selling recipes on how to make nuclear bombs I will eat my hat as they say, but I am not buying it.


    The fact that any citizen is ok that there is certain information that we shouldn't be allowed to see because intelligence agencies with a track record of violating civil rights of citizens at home and abroad and supporting far right extremists and toppling governments around the globe deem it "classified" astounds me.  I think it is important for Joe Schmo to weigh in on things like this.  It's important for John and Sally Q Public to weigh in on everything.  Classified seems to mean things we don't want you to know the state does.

    Exceptionally grave danger to US interests...what are our interests anymore, exploiting other countries resources and supplying the world with lots of arms and little "security"

    Fi

    Every instance you listed could have been handled differently and perhaps gotten the same or different results. Joe Schmo has a say, it’s called voting. And whether you like it or not, there are people and governments that want to commit acts of violence against us, not because of some aggrieved past but because they hate our ideals. If everything should be known and shared, let’s just cut to the chase and give nukes to the Taliban, Iran, and anyone else, your neighbor perhaps.

    The world is a shitty, dangerous place and no doubt the US contributed to that but that doesn’t mean we should role over and submit for our past transgressions. 
    Sorry but I haven't bought that they hate us because of our freedom and ideals since before "Never Forget" day and the ensuing patriotic fervor.  Most of the attacks against us have been from real grievances caused by our governments past missteps in geopolitical matters and colonialism that we seem to have still not learned from.

    I want Trump to pay for his crimes as much as anyone, but if all that we have is records technicalities, just let it go and stop wasting energy and time and tax dollars on it.  Take away the oxygen and the fire will die.  All this attention given to Trump feeds his persona and the cult.  Find real crimes.  

    Like I said if he was literally selling bomb recipes to people that have a real reason to want to harm the US because of our past transgressions, send him to jail do not pass go etc.  But using the Espionage Act to weaponize a record keeping technicality and shrouding everything in secrecy and speculations is not going to serve true justice, and if anything will just give more fuel to the Trump fire.

    Find real crimes, or starve the fire of it's fuel. 
    Real crimes may very well have been committed. Just walk away from that? Just an oopsies doodles?

    Salman Rushdie was stabbed in the neck today, likely because he wrote a book 30 odd years ago.

    Do you think Putin on the ritz wishes us harm? Little Rocket Man? How about the Shabaab? ISIS? We could behave and pay reparations and a 100 years from now, they’ll still hate us.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 26,694
    where is the paper trail related to declassification? were each item restamped with new classification or declassification? it cant just be done verbally.

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,492
    PJNB said:


    Silver lining....Maybe the huge percentage of Trump sycophants that exist in law enforcement begin to see the light.
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,492
    No biggie.  Hunter's Laptop!


  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 5,172
    OnWis97 said:
    Even if people believe it ("It was Planted!"), I really don't think having documents he should not have is going to resonate with moderates (and certainly not with conservatives). "He had some papers? Big deal."  

    For this to ever amount to anything, proof that he distributed something to a foreign agent is needed (even then, they'll just scream "Planted!"). Otherwise, despite the word "espionage," people are going to think of this as pretty much an administrative violation of sorts (like when the outgoing Clinton staff took the "W's" off of the White House keyboards."

    For this to really matter to Joe Schmo, illegally keeping papers, regardless of what those papers are, just isn't going to be enough.

    There's a significant difference between classified documents and top secret. That difference is what puts Joe schmoes life in danger.  He needs to be told this every day for the rest of his pathetic life
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,023
    Smellyman said:
    No biggie.  Hunter's Laptop!


    To watch the repub apologists machine spring to life is quiet something. This fucking guy.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
Sign In or Register to comment.