Donald Trump

vaggar99

mickeyrat said:

vaggar99 said:

Smellyman said:

Liberals and leftists hate America and are full of hate.

I support Trump.  Trump is not a racist.

the Cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is astounding

you screaming it, doesn't make it so.  Trump is a racist.  Acceptance is always the first step.

ummm, you missed the implied sarcasm....

sorry, i forgot we have only one.

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Its said Johnson really browbeat and bullied people into getting the whole package passed. voting rights act, civil rights act etc.....

Johnson: amazing domestic president but boy did he shit the bed with Vietnam. 

They all did, JFK, LBJ and Nixon.  What was the common link between them?  Robert McNamara. 

And yeah Mickey, he sure did.  That was one thing that LBJ could do, whip votes.  And he was a bad ass doing it, back to his days in the House.  

I don’t think jfk messed up like lbj and Nixon. With the information given and the times I feel jfk made the right choice.  The other two I can not defend.  
I ve read that McNamara actually wanted to get out of Vietnam and told that to both jfk and lbj.  I ll have to find the article. 

That's his revisionist history, trying to craft his legacy.  Mac did not, to my knowledge, have his change of heart until he was out of the cabinet.  I've read the Best and the Brightest (Halberstam's definitive political history of that era) and also have studied the interviews he did for the 12 Lessons documentary.  Dude was a statistical genius, but he used the same data to show that we were winning the war (that's how he convinced the presidents) and then manipulated it after he left to show how we were losing.  Same data.  

He was a fascinating character in history.  He was Curtis LeMay's chief of staff during WWII.  He planned all of the firebombing campaigns.  Had we lost the war, he would have been a war criminal for sure.  And then he's the one that made seat belts standard in the automotive industry, saving thousands of lives.  Go figure.  

mrussel1

RYME said:

Smellyman said:

Liberals and leftists hate America and are full of hate.

I support Trump.  Trump is not a racist.

the Cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is astounding

Get it straight.  Leftists hate America.
Liberals don't.
They are two seperate entities.
Liberals/Leftists  are not one in the same.

So you don't see how Lincoln, FDR, LBJ and MLK fundamentally transformed the US?  They were despised by conservatives of the time, using similar rationale that you are.  And what the leftist advocate for in this country, through the legislative process, is nothing compared to what those Americans did.  You disagree?

mcgruff10

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Its said Johnson really browbeat and bullied people into getting the whole package passed. voting rights act, civil rights act etc.....

Johnson: amazing domestic president but boy did he shit the bed with Vietnam. 

They all did, JFK, LBJ and Nixon.  What was the common link between them?  Robert McNamara. 

And yeah Mickey, he sure did.  That was one thing that LBJ could do, whip votes.  And he was a bad ass doing it, back to his days in the House.  

I don’t think jfk messed up like lbj and Nixon. With the information given and the times I feel jfk made the right choice.  The other two I can not defend.  
I ve read that McNamara actually wanted to get out of Vietnam and told that to both jfk and lbj.  I ll have to find the article. 

That's his revisionist history, trying to craft his legacy.  Mac did not, to my knowledge, have his change of heart until he was out of the cabinet.  I've read the Best and the Brightest (Halberstam's definitive political history of that era) and also have studied the interviews he did for the 12 Lessons documentary.  Dude was a statistical genius, but he used the same data to show that we were winning the war (that's how he convinced the presidents) and then manipulated it after he left to show how we were losing.  Same data.  

He was a fascinating character in history.  He was Curtis LeMay's chief of staff during WWII.  He planned all of the firebombing campaigns.  Had we lost the war, he would have been a war criminal for sure.  And then he's the one that made seat belts standard in the automotive industry, saving thousands of lives.  Go figure.  

I thought Ralph Nader was the seatbelt guy?
interesting stuff for sure, like I said I ll try and find that article.  
So he went head of the world bank to seat belts?
does he get credit for the infamous “body count”
tally on tv every night?

mrussel1

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

Its said Johnson really browbeat and bullied people into getting the whole package passed. voting rights act, civil rights act etc.....

Johnson: amazing domestic president but boy did he shit the bed with Vietnam. 

They all did, JFK, LBJ and Nixon.  What was the common link between them?  Robert McNamara. 

And yeah Mickey, he sure did.  That was one thing that LBJ could do, whip votes.  And he was a bad ass doing it, back to his days in the House.  

I don’t think jfk messed up like lbj and Nixon. With the information given and the times I feel jfk made the right choice.  The other two I can not defend.  
I ve read that McNamara actually wanted to get out of Vietnam and told that to both jfk and lbj.  I ll have to find the article. 

That's his revisionist history, trying to craft his legacy.  Mac did not, to my knowledge, have his change of heart until he was out of the cabinet.  I've read the Best and the Brightest (Halberstam's definitive political history of that era) and also have studied the interviews he did for the 12 Lessons documentary.  Dude was a statistical genius, but he used the same data to show that we were winning the war (that's how he convinced the presidents) and then manipulated it after he left to show how we were losing.  Same data.  

He was a fascinating character in history.  He was Curtis LeMay's chief of staff during WWII.  He planned all of the firebombing campaigns.  Had we lost the war, he would have been a war criminal for sure.  And then he's the one that made seat belts standard in the automotive industry, saving thousands of lives.  Go figure.  

I thought Ralph Nader was the seatbelt guy?
interesting stuff for sure, like I said I ll try and find that article.  
So he went head of the world bank to seat belts?
does he get credit for the infamous “body count”
tally on tv every night?

He was one of the Whiz Kids at Ford, rising to an executive very fast.  Nader pushed for mandatory with his book in the mid 60s, after Mac was already defense secretary.  Mac started using them in fords when they were a novelty in the late 50s.  He was big on safety.

brianlux

Cool looking older guy comes up to the counter at the bookstore today with a copy of Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath and asks how much it is.  I tell him, "Seven dollars".  "Cool," he says, and I ring him up.  "Great book,"  I tell him.  He responds, "It's the story that counts and it's still going on-- same shit, different day."  I nod my head.  As he walks out the door he hollers, "... and get rid of that fucking asshole Trump!"

Yyyyyyep.

benjs

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

RYME said:

On the moving train, as a conservative, on most issues I've tried to poke around to see if there's any common ground.  Or perhaps give you a little clarification some insight on the other side and some of the whys.  Not trying to convert anyone.
A few are willing to have a conversation at least even if they disagree, but most just sling mud.
This is a Nowhere Road
Door number one or door number two.

Door #1
A huge plate full of dog s*** must eat

Door #2
A large man with a machete, who will chop one arm off
Choose
https://youtu.be/kppBxEkb8to
What ever

Trump is no Conservative.  The "Conservatives" are, however, him.  

Most conservative president ever.
Even trolls love rock n roll
https://youtu.be/6r9kJGmZOQQ

That's such bullshit.  He's not even in the same stadium of conservatism as William Buckley.  But as yet, you have failed to delineate between a left and liberal, so I guess we shouldn't expect you to be able to define conservatism either.  

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

RYME said:

On the moving train, as a conservative, on most issues I've tried to poke around to see if there's any common ground.  Or perhaps give you a little clarification some insight on the other side and some of the whys.  Not trying to convert anyone.
A few are willing to have a conversation at least even if they disagree, but most just sling mud.
This is a Nowhere Road
Door number one or door number two.

Door #1
A huge plate full of dog s*** must eat

Door #2
A large man with a machete, who will chop one arm off
Choose
https://youtu.be/kppBxEkb8to
What ever

Trump is no Conservative.  The "Conservatives" are, however, him.  

Most conservative president ever.
Even trolls love rock n roll
https://youtu.be/6r9kJGmZOQQ

That's such bullshit.  He's not even in the same stadium of conservatism as William Buckley.  But as yet, you have failed to delineate between a left and liberal, so I guess we shouldn't expect you to be able to define conservatism either.  

My bad (modern era)
Left/liberal
Leftists won't understand the difference.
Traditional liberals do.
There might not be any old school liberals here.
I have no problem with them.
You are so far left old school liberalizm is almost dead..
To explain it to you would be like pissing into the wind.  You've made that clear.

You're a joke then.  My posts here are so clearly center left.  Go read my criticisms of Warren's and Bernie's policies and AOC's self defeating political strategies.  Yet you say I'm so far left. It's clear that your arguments are so fundamentally weak that you resort to the "if you don't know then im not telling you" strategy.  What's next,  "why don't you tell me and then I'll tell you if you're right" argument? Lame.  Think things through before you post.  Someone's going to challenge you on an intellectual level 

Murssel you are probably more of a liberal than leftist.  Leftist is extreme.  Liberal is center/left.  I can have a convrsation with a liberal, I cannot have a conversation with a far extreme leftist.
Bryanlux will differ with me on almost everything, but demonstrates respect & that we can agree to disagree.  Pop a beer and play music that we both like light a smoke and  bury the hatchet.
That is not the case with Halifax.  He hates my guts.
Im not talking about all.
Eventually sombody here is going to maybe understand the difference I'm talking about..
*Bu$hleager I would say is a liberal tune.  Hard-hitting, but melodic, clever, has a rhythm (I disagree with its premis but I don't mind it)  I sing along with it when its playing.  Nice protest song  not over the top.
*Can't Deny Me is a leftist tune.  Disjointed no melody eratic temper tantrum shreek song.  Can't sing along with it.
Still searching for the right words to clarify. Maybe this will help maybe I'm pissing in the wind again.
What does intellectual mean?  Enlightened??
There's another big difference between  smart and wise.
2+2=52 right?

Yes, intelligence informed by experience = wisdom.  It's why I think Pelosi is wise, and AOC is not. 
To your point, thank you for clarifying.  I don't agree with you, and your definitions are in line with what Prager "U" posted, so my guess is there's some connection there. 

The reason I disagree is quite simple.  The "Squad" and other leftists in the gov't are trying to change the US.  But they do not hate the US because they are using the system, as designed by the Fathers (founding 'persons' I believe is the correct term in Berkely) to effectuate change.  If they hated America, why would they show the Constitution the respect by working within the system as designed?  Your disagreements with them may run stronger than they do with me, but they are still doing it the right way.  

The people who hate this country are the ones that cannot respect the Constitution and the three branches.  These are people like the Weatherman, Antifa, Timothy McVeigh, White Nationalists, and others who try to circumvent the Constitution and for all it stands by criminal activity.  That's hating America.  

See that's not bad. 
I developed my own thoughts on these matters long befour I discoverd Preger a few months ago.  He is much better at clarifying things than I am.   I enjoy his show but he did not shape my thought process.
I totally agree with you Pelosi vs. AOC.
I disagree with but respect Pelosi who has a vision and and understanding hard work ethic and keen sense as to how things work  certainly paid her dues.  AOC is just lazy &  unwilling to do the necessary work and work her way up the ladder.  
AOC  doesn't want to pay her dues she just wants to be the speaker today and implement her Green New Deal.
And I believe the desire to fundamentally transform the United States is also a sign of  hatred toward the USA.
You wouldnt tell your wife I love you dear, but I'd like to fundamentally transform you.
But anyway.......

I disagree with your stance on transformation. If you love something or someone, you do everything you can to help it or them grow. To say that a desire to fundamentally transform something is a sign of hatred is a heavy-handed comment assumes the intent is nefarious - a total assumption on your part.

Meltdown99

RYME said:

Smellyman said:

Liberals and leftists hate America and are full of hate.

I support Trump.  Trump is not a racist.

the Cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is astounding

Get it straight.  Leftists hate America.
Liberals don't.
They are two seperate entities.
Liberals/Leftists  are not one in the same.

How do we know you do not hate America?  Just because you stop and salute the flag does not make you patriotic.  You really should stop defending Trump.

Halifax2TheMax

Somebody needs to read the preamble to the Constitution.

Spiritual_Chaos

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

RYME said:

On the moving train, as a conservative, on most issues I've tried to poke around to see if there's any common ground.  Or perhaps give you a little clarification some insight on the other side and some of the whys.  Not trying to convert anyone.
A few are willing to have a conversation at least even if they disagree, but most just sling mud.
This is a Nowhere Road
Door number one or door number two.

Door #1
A huge plate full of dog s*** must eat

Door #2
A large man with a machete, who will chop one arm off
Choose
https://youtu.be/kppBxEkb8to
What ever

Trump is no Conservative.  The "Conservatives" are, however, him.  

Most conservative president ever.
Even trolls love rock n roll
https://youtu.be/6r9kJGmZOQQ

That's such bullshit.  He's not even in the same stadium of conservatism as William Buckley.  But as yet, you have failed to delineate between a left and liberal, so I guess we shouldn't expect you to be able to define conservatism either.  

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

RYME said:

On the moving train, as a conservative, on most issues I've tried to poke around to see if there's any common ground.  Or perhaps give you a little clarification some insight on the other side and some of the whys.  Not trying to convert anyone.
A few are willing to have a conversation at least even if they disagree, but most just sling mud.
This is a Nowhere Road
Door number one or door number two.

Door #1
A huge plate full of dog s*** must eat

Door #2
A large man with a machete, who will chop one arm off
Choose
https://youtu.be/kppBxEkb8to
What ever

Trump is no Conservative.  The "Conservatives" are, however, him.  

Most conservative president ever.
Even trolls love rock n roll
https://youtu.be/6r9kJGmZOQQ

That's such bullshit.  He's not even in the same stadium of conservatism as William Buckley.  But as yet, you have failed to delineate between a left and liberal, so I guess we shouldn't expect you to be able to define conservatism either.  

My bad (modern era)
Left/liberal
Leftists won't understand the difference.
Traditional liberals do.
There might not be any old school liberals here.
I have no problem with them.
You are so far left old school liberalizm is almost dead..
To explain it to you would be like pissing into the wind.  You've made that clear.

You're a joke then.  My posts here are so clearly center left.  Go read my criticisms of Warren's and Bernie's policies and AOC's self defeating political strategies.  Yet you say I'm so far left. It's clear that your arguments are so fundamentally weak that you resort to the "if you don't know then im not telling you" strategy.  What's next,  "why don't you tell me and then I'll tell you if you're right" argument? Lame.  Think things through before you post.  Someone's going to challenge you on an intellectual level 

Murssel you are probably more of a liberal than leftist.  Leftist is extreme.  Liberal is center/left.  I can have a convrsation with a liberal, I cannot have a conversation with a far extreme leftist.
Bryanlux will differ with me on almost everything, but demonstrates respect & that we can agree to disagree.  Pop a beer and play music that we both like light a smoke and  bury the hatchet.
That is not the case with Halifax.  He hates my guts.
Im not talking about all.
Eventually sombody here is going to maybe understand the difference I'm talking about..
*Bu$hleager I would say is a liberal tune.  Hard-hitting, but melodic, clever, has a rhythm (I disagree with its premis but I don't mind it)  I sing along with it when its playing.  Nice protest song  not over the top.
*Can't Deny Me is a leftist tune.  Disjointed no melody eratic temper tantrum shreek song.  Can't sing along with it.
Still searching for the right words to clarify. Maybe this will help maybe I'm pissing in the wind again.
What does intellectual mean?  Enlightened??
There's another big difference between  smart and wise.
2+2=52 right?

Yes, intelligence informed by experience = wisdom.  It's why I think Pelosi is wise, and AOC is not. 
To your point, thank you for clarifying.  I don't agree with you, and your definitions are in line with what Prager "U" posted, so my guess is there's some connection there. 

The reason I disagree is quite simple.  The "Squad" and other leftists in the gov't are trying to change the US.  But they do not hate the US because they are using the system, as designed by the Fathers (founding 'persons' I believe is the correct term in Berkely) to effectuate change.  If they hated America, why would they show the Constitution the respect by working within the system as designed?  Your disagreements with them may run stronger than they do with me, but they are still doing it the right way.  

The people who hate this country are the ones that cannot respect the Constitution and the three branches.  These are people like the Weatherman, Antifa, Timothy McVeigh, White Nationalists, and others who try to circumvent the Constitution and for all it stands by criminal activity.  That's hating America.  

See that's not bad. 
I developed my own thoughts on these matters long befour I discoverd Preger a few months ago.  He is much better at clarifying things than I am.   I enjoy his show but he did not shape my thought process.
I totally agree with you Pelosi vs. AOC.
I disagree with but respect Pelosi who has a vision and and understanding hard work ethic and keen sense as to how things work  certainly paid her dues.  AOC is just lazy &  unwilling to do the necessary work and work her way up the ladder.  
AOC  doesn't want to pay her dues she just wants to be the speaker today and implement her Green New Deal.
And I believe the desire to fundamentally transform the United States is also a sign of  hatred toward the USA.
You wouldnt tell your wife I love you dear, but I'd like to fundamentally transform you.
But anyway.......

your anology about the US being your wife is wrong. 

What If you moved into a house that was a 1428-Elm-Street esque trashed dump - you wouldn’t wanna do a full on renovation?

Spiritual_Chaos

RYME said:

Smellyman said:

Liberals and leftists hate America and are full of hate.

I support Trump.  Trump is not a racist.

the Cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is astounding

Get it straight.  Leftists hate America.
Liberals don't.
They are two seperate entities.
Liberals/Leftists  are not one in the same.

Sounds very nationalistic of you - which never has been a charming trait. 

In What way would people leaning american left hate America?

in What way would they Hate it more than someone defacto-supporting racism and the ending of fighting for climate change via a vote for Trump ?

ikiT

Halifax2TheMax said:

ikiT said:

it should be 7% tops.

Interestingly enough 7% of 350,000,000, US population, is 24,000,000.

word

mrussel1

ikiT said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

ikiT said:

it should be 7% tops.

Interestingly enough 7% of 350,000,000, US population, is 24,000,000.

word

327 is the population.  And that includes children and other non-voters.  I think a fairer gauge is those that actually vote.  

Halifax2TheMax

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-has-not-built-a-single-mile-of-new-border-fence-after-30-months-in-office

Still buying the baloney?

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

ikiT said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

ikiT said:

it should be 7% tops.

Interestingly enough 7% of 350,000,000, US population, is 24,000,000.

word

327 is the population.  And that includes children and other non-voters.  I think a fairer gauge is those that actually vote.  

Do you have to vote to be racist, misogynistic, homophobic or xenophobic? Or to support Team Trump Treason and his administration's policies?

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

ikiT said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

ikiT said:

it should be 7% tops.

Interestingly enough 7% of 350,000,000, US population, is 24,000,000.

word

327 is the population.  And that includes children and other non-voters.  I think a fairer gauge is those that actually vote.  

Do you have to vote to be racist, misogynistic, homophobic or xenophobic? Or to support Team Trump Treason and his administration's policies?

No you don't, but I can't make those assumptions.  All I can assume is that the number of people that have enabled this administration is 63 million.  That's 62.9 million too many.  But I don't blame the kids....yet.  

mcgruff10

so Would these three people make Trump: Wallace, Wilson and Joe McCarthy?

vaggar99

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

ikiT said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

ikiT said:

it should be 7% tops.

Interestingly enough 7% of 350,000,000, US population, is 24,000,000.

word

327 is the population.  And that includes children and other non-voters.  I think a fairer gauge is those that actually vote.  

Do you have to vote to be racist, misogynistic, homophobic or xenophobic? Or to support Team Trump Treason and his administration's policies?

its a spectrum. half the country charts a bit high on it.

ikiT

those kids are scared though

vaggar99

Trump is not a rapist.