Donald Trump

The Juggler

mrussel1 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

mrussel, I think we've got a double negative problem here I was saying that attributing voting results in 2016 to one factor is not a valid causal relationship, and I believe The Juggler was agreeing with that. 

Oh I see.. I missed that.  I was agreeing with your point.  

#metoo!

The Juggler

dignin said:

White House No Longer Enthusiastic About Releasing Mueller Report

Meanwhile, periodic murmurs have suggested perhaps the report will amount to something other than total vindication. “Privately, some Trump advisers acknowledge those attacks may have a shelf life, and that they are deploying them in part to blunt questions about Mr. Trump’s own credibility,” notes the New York Times. A senior White House official tells my colleague Olivia Nuzzi, “There will be plenty of unfavorable things about the president in the full report, which we think will eventually come out, so let’s not go overboard saying there’s no wrongdoing. Let’s move on.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/trump-no-longer-enthusiastic-about-releasing-mueller-report.html

Nothing burger, total waste of time.

This isn't over yet.

Wait a minute. Wait just one minute! You're not saying the White House got ahead of themselves are you????

mrussel1

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

I haven't studied the issue using actual data and polling.  I don't try to attribute the motives of an entire group of people to one factor.  It's foolish.  Maybe some of those black men that didn't vote won't vote for a woman.  Maybe they had to work.  Maybe they were sick.  Maybe the believed some of the FB lies that were pushed by third parties.  And yes, there was likely less enthusiasm because Obama wasn't on the ticket.  
As an FYI, female voter turnout increased in 2016 over previous elections.  I'm glad all those sexist chicks finally got out and exercised their right they have been neglecting.  

Lerxst1992

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had deleted endorsements of Hillary Clinton from their Twitter accounts after FBI director James B. Comey announced the discovery of new Clinton emails. 

my2hands

benjs said:

my2hands said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

my2hands, expand this conversation and you can see my seven suggestions why black voter turnout dropped nationwide. They took me all of fifteen seconds to come up with, so I suspect there are probably plenty more. Again, if you're here telling us to stop taking complex scenarios and saying "obviously _____ happened/will happen" when based on limited substance, you should heed your own advice.

I'm not trying to dig back and find them... can you repost your seven suggestions

Although to be honest, i think you're making this more complicated then it needs to be

Here you go. 

Re-posting from above:
"Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations? 

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. "

I don't think I'm making this complicated (I'm not even sure what would make this complicated), I just don't think you've justified your position at all. 

Not to be a dick, but this isnt worth the keystrokes, but ok...

1 - 4 year difference... ok?
2 - Different candidate.... yes, my point
3 - Different circumstances.... ? 
4 - Different cultural times... ?
5 - Dimished faith (agreed, i made that point as PJ_Soul did... pass the hot sauce) & hope in outsiders presence in Washington... you saying black people had faith in Trump if he won so they stayed home? 
6 - Superpredators... again, my point
7 - 1994 Crime Bill... again, my point... Blacks believe politicians and Democrats pander to them for votes, but dont actually care about their community


That all seems like a longer way of saying what i already said... the candidate sucked, the black community knows white politicians generally pander to them, and without a black person on the ticket they feel no need to go to the booth... in other words, without Obama on the ticket, they stayed home

Frankly, it's not worth debating with a bunch of white people... bottom line is black voter turnout dropped in 2016 from the levels of 2008 & 2012, meanwhile every other demographic increased voter turnout in 2016... you guys can over complicate that if you want, i think the major driver if that is obvious

This is why the Democrats will have a person of color on the ticket in 2020... if a white person gets the nomination i have $20 that says the VP will be a person of color and likely the opposite sex of the nominee... welcome to indentity politics

my2hands

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

As an FYI, female voter turnout increased in 2016 over previous elections.  I'm glad all those sexist chicks finally got out and exercised their right they have been neglecting.  

Good... it's a shame Hillary couldn't win white women

Almost every voter demographic increased in 2016

Seriously, what are you guys even arguing with me about? 

my2hands

Lerxst1992 said:

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama had deleted endorsements of Hillary Clinton from their Twitter accounts after FBI director James B. Comey announced the discovery of new Clinton emails. 

Is that real? Maybe it was a russian hacking! Lol

eddiec

my2hands said:

Not to be a dick, but this isnt worth the keystrokes, but ok...

1 - 4 year difference... ok?
2 - Different candidate.... yes, my point
3 - Different circumstances.... ? 
4 - Different cultural times... ?
5 - Dimished faith (agreed, i made that point as PJ_Soul did... pass the hot sauce) & hope in outsiders presence in Washington... you saying black people had faith in Trump if he won so they stayed home? 
6 - Superpredators... again, my point
7 - 1994 Crime Bill... again, my point... Blacks believe politicians and Democrats pander to them for votes, but dont actually care about their community


That all seems like a longer way of saying what i already said... the candidate sucked, the black community knows white politicians generally pander to them, and without a black person on the ticket they feel no need to go to the booth... in other words, without Obama on the ticket, they stayed home

Frankly, it's not worth debating with a bunch of white people... bottom line is black voter turnout dropped in 2016 from the levels of 2008 & 2012, meanwhile every other demographic increased voter turnout in 2016... you guys can over complicate that if you want, i think the major driver if that is obvious

This is why the Democrats will have a person of color on the ticket in 2020... if a white person gets the nomination i have $20 that says the VP will be a person of color and likely the opposite sex of the nominee... welcome to indentity politics

You must also realize that Obama's campaign would have canvassed the black communities more so than Hillary's or any other candidate. I don't have the statistics at hand, but the voter decrease you mentioned was probably back down to normal levels.

Educated, wealthy people are easy to get out. It becomes more difficult as you move down the lines of both of those spectrums.

OnWis97

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

As an FYI, female voter turnout increased in 2016 over previous elections.  I'm glad all those sexist chicks finally got out and exercised their right they have been neglecting.  

Good... it's a shame Hillary couldn't win white women

Almost every voter demographic increased in 2016

Seriously, what are you guys even arguing with me about? 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your original point was black turnout went down because there was no black candidate.  If that’s so, you have already acknowledged other factors, particularly that Hillary took them for granted and clumsily pandered to them.
 

mrussel1

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

benjs said:

my2hands said:

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

Interesting read for those hoping to move past the russian red scare smokescreen... pretty exhaustive study by a liberal leaning group

In the study it states if black turnout remained static between 2012-2016 in each state that Hillary would have won Wisconsin & Michigan, and therefore the election

Are you seriously trying to distil why a person votes for candidate A vs candidate B by referencing one fact with throngs of variables? Say, a four year difference? Different candidates? Different circumstances? Different cultural times? Diminished faith in the establishment and increased hope in outsiders' presence in Washington? Clinton's past referring to black people as superpredators (a highly publicized event)? Clinton's relationship with Bill whose crime bills passed in '94 led to further mass incarcerations?

Your claims that the black vote decreased because of X are equally invalid, unsubstantiated, and unprovable as those on here claiming that the election was won because of Y. 

This is a correct assessment. 

So you're saying it's possible and accurate to distill the voting incentives and disincentives if an entire group of people into one statement?

Ok, you tell me why black voter turnout dropped nationwide in 4 years... i'm all ears... i don't think it's that complicated

Funny how people have no problem calling everyone a racist or sexist or a Trump voter every name in the book... but seem afraid to speak the truth when it comes to black voter drop off........ it's because the black guy wasn't on the ticket, and the person on the ticket sucked and takes the black vote for granted, saying she carries hot sauce in her bag is going to connect her to black voters? Lol, fucking shameful. That's the worst fucking pandering I've ever seen! 

As an FYI, female voter turnout increased in 2016 over previous elections.  I'm glad all those sexist chicks finally got out and exercised their right they have been neglecting.  

Good... it's a shame Hillary couldn't win white women

Almost every voter demographic increased in 2016

Seriously, what are you guys even arguing with me about? 

You're mixing empirical data with non empirical conclusions, one that applies one motive to an entire group.  I think you see the irony in that considering your stance on why someone would vote for Trump. 

my2hands

Oh. My. God.

You guys will argue and parse what color blue the fucking sky is

Let me be clear. Black voter turnout dropped because Obama, or a person of color, was not on the ticket. That is the OBVIOUS MAIN DRIVER of that phenomenon. Period. Full stop. The drop in turnout would have happened no matter what two white people would have been on the ticket. 

And guess what, it doesnt matter what you or i think,  they didnt show up at the polls and it cost dems the election, and that is a fact. 

Do you guys even know any black people? Lol

my2hands

To think otherwise is insanely naive and out of touch in my opinion

But carry on, i'm done with this madness lol

mrussel1

my2hands said:

Oh. My. God.

You guys will argue and parse what color blue the fucking sky is

Let me be clear. Black voter turnout dropped because Obama, or a person of color, was not on the ticket. That is the OBVIOUS MAIN DRIVER of that phenomenon. Period. Full stop. The drop in turnout would have happened no matter what two white people would have been on the ticket. 

And guess what, it doesnt matter what you or i think,  they didnt show up at the polls and it cost dems the election, and that is a fact. 

Do you guys even know any black people? Lol

And you did the same thing on Trump.  I always argue for precision of words and not making broad statements that are unsubstantiated.  And yeah,  I work in banking where diversity is a priority,  so thanks for asking.  

my2hands

Your cultural diversity experience comes from working in the banking industry? lol

Sorry man, that's funny 

mrussel1

my2hands said:

Your cultural diversity experience comes from working in the banking industry? lol

Sorry man, that's funny 

So these aren't real black people?  Are they face painters?

mace1229

josevolution said:

Voter suppression 

Thats right. I remember all those blacks that were scared off by the Black Panthers who were allowed to demonstrate in full uniform at voting booths, and then have all voter intimidation dropped.

mrussel1

Are all of the gay people I work with not the real gays either?

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

Are all of the gay people I work with not the real gays either?

LMAO

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

Your cultural diversity experience comes from working in the banking industry? lol

Sorry man, that's funny 

So these aren't real black people?  Are they face painters?

well, sheesh, obviously black people working in the banking industry SURELY cannot have ever experienced real black culture in their lives, isn't it OBVIOUS? /s

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

Your cultural diversity experience comes from working in the banking industry? lol

Sorry man, that's funny 

So these aren't real black people?  Are they face painters?

well, sheesh, obviously black people working in the banking industry SURELY cannot have ever experienced real black culture in their lives, isn't it OBVIOUS? /s

And I think our friend is confused and might believe that everyone is an investment banker.  Banks employ people down to the call center and mail rooms.  The vast majority of employees are middle class.  The narrative of rich bankers applies to the 1%, just like the population at large.