Donald Trump

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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,211
    jesus

    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 7,792
    ikiT said:
    jesus

    You rang?

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,485
    What are they hiding?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justices-keep-hold-on-secret-russia-investigation-material/ar-BB16fX2R?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

    Because, I thought, 

    “There was no collusion.”
    “I don’t know any Russians.”
    “I have nothing to hide.”
    “I’ll sit down and talk to anyone.”
    “We do everything by the book.”
    “Only the guilty plea the fifth.”
    “Very legal, very cool.”
    “Fully exonerated.”
    “Essentially no obstruction.”
    “Very friendly and totally appropriate.”
    “No quid pro quo.”
    “Imminent threat.”
    I thought he was Israeli.”

    Follow the damn money, from Russia with love and a PTape, all the way to impeachment.

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,485
    Way to brag about the economy as covid cases soar but that Team Trump Treason sure is doing a great job. From the White House propaganda email:

    Blowout: The U.S. Economy Added 4.8 Million Jobs in June
    “The economy has added around 7.3 million jobs in the past two months. The increase in the ranks of employed workers shows that companies ramped up hiring as the economy reopened and consumers came back to stores, restaurants, and other businesses that had been shuttered,” John Carney writes for Breitbart.
     
    “The Trump administration’s aid programs appear to be working.”


    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,404
    Way to brag about the economy as covid cases soar but that Team Trump Treason sure is doing a great job. From the White House propaganda email:

    Blowout: The U.S. Economy Added 4.8 Million Jobs in June
    “The economy has added around 7.3 million jobs in the past two months. The increase in the ranks of employed workers shows that companies ramped up hiring as the economy reopened and consumers came back to stores, restaurants, and other businesses that had been shuttered,” John Carney writes for Breitbart.
     
    “The Trump administration’s aid programs appear to be working.”




    reelection guaranteed
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,485
    Way to brag about the economy as covid cases soar but that Team Trump Treason sure is doing a great job. From the White House propaganda email:

    Blowout: The U.S. Economy Added 4.8 Million Jobs in June
    “The economy has added around 7.3 million jobs in the past two months. The increase in the ranks of employed workers shows that companies ramped up hiring as the economy reopened and consumers came back to stores, restaurants, and other businesses that had been shuttered,” John Carney writes for Breitbart.
     
    “The Trump administration’s aid programs appear to be working.”




    reelection guaranteed
    Not with graphs like these:

    July 2, 2020 at 9:39 a.m. EDT
    Add to list

    In June the U.S. economy added 4.8 million payroll jobs, which is of course great news for those newly hired. Unfortunately, it means diddly squat for those still out of work.

    And many, many millions more Americans remain in that unhappy situation.

    To help you visualize just how deep the U.S. job-market hole remains, once again I bring you the Scariest Jobs Chart You’ll See All Day. It plots the trajectory of job changes in this recession alongside those from previous downturns (and subsequent recoveries).

    How this recession compares to previous ones

    Percent change in employment since most recent peak.

    0

    Other post-

    World War II

    recessions

    Great Recession

    and subsequent

    recovery

    -5%

    Where we are now

    -10%

    -15%

    1

    10

    20

    30

    40

    50

    60

    70

    Months since the last employment peak

    Note: Because employment is a lagging indicator, the dates for these payroll employment trends are not exactly synchronized with the National Bureau of Economic Research’s official business cycle dates.

    Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics,

    via Haver Analytics

    THE WASHINGTON POST

    How this recession compares to previous ones

    Percent change in employment since most recent peak.

    0

    Other post-

    World War II

    recessions

    -5%

    Great Recession

    and subsequent

    recovery

    Where we are now

    -10%

    -15%

    1

    10

    20

    30

    40

    50

    60

    70

    Months since the last employment peak

    Note: Because employment is a lagging indicator, the dates for these payroll employment trends are not exactly synchronized with the National Bureau of Economic Research’s official business cycle dates.

    Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, via Haver Analytics

    THE WASHINGTON POST

    How this recession compares to previous ones

    Percent change in employment since most recent peak.

    0

    Other post-

    World War II

    recessions

    Great Recession

    and subsequent

    recovery

    -5%

    Where we are now

    -10%

    -15%

    1

    10

    20

    30

    40

    50

    60

    70 months

    Months since the last employment peak

    Note: Because employment is a lagging indicator, the dates for these payroll employment trends are not exactly synchronized with the National Bureau of Economic Research’s official business cycle dates.

    Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, via Haver Analytics

    THE WASHINGTON POST

    How this recession compares to previous ones

    Percent change in employment since most recent peak.

    0

    Other post-

    World War II

    recessions

    Great Recession

    and subsequent

    recovery

    -5%

    Where we are now

    -10%

    -15%

    1

    10

    20

    30

    40

    50

    60

    70 months

    Months since the last employment peak

    Note: Because employment is a lagging indicator, the dates for these payroll employment trends are not exactly synchronized with the National Bureau of Economic Research’s official business cycle dates.

    Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, via Haver Analytics

    THE WASHINGTON POST

    The horizontal axis shows months since the most recent employment peak of a given business cycle. The teal line plots the Great Recession. Until recently, the depth, duration and sluggish recovery from the Great Recession had put all other postwar downturns to shame. Take a look at the red line, which represents the awful situation the country is now going through.

    Things are so much worse than even the Great Recession that the red line almost doesn’t fit on the same chart as the others. It starts with a near-vertical downward drop, followed by a short spike upward.

    Again, it is great that the hiring trend has, in fact, turned upward. But there are still 14.7 million, or about 10 percent, fewer payroll jobs than there were at the start of the pandemic recession. And as you can see, even if job growth continues at what President Trump calls “rocket ship” pace, the country still has a long way to go before reaching an acceptable altitude — that is, until U.S. payrolls are anywhere near pre-pandemic levels.

    There’s also reason to worry that our little “rocket ship” might slow down — or perhaps already has.

    Thursday’s jobs report reflects activity in mid-June. (The Bureau of Labor Statistics’ employer survey always covers the pay period that includes the 12th of the month.) In some senses, only a couple of weeks feels like ages ago.

    Since mid-June, confirmed coronavirus cases have surged, especially across the Sun Belt. Some states have halted or even reversed their reopening plans, especially in the industries that reported the greatest job gains at mid-June: Leisure and hospitality, which Thursday’s jobs report shows as adding 2.1 million positions in June, accounted for two-fifths of the overall gain in total payroll jobs. But Florida and Texas, for instance, once again shut down on-site bar drinking. On Wednesday, California’s governor directed 19 counties to shut down indoor family entertainment venues (bowling alleys, arcades, etc.) as well as indoor dining at restaurants. In the near term, this will hurt the industry’s business activity and hiring.

    There is also evidence that what matters more for economic activity than these government shutdown decrees is the virus itself — and consumers’ or workers’ fears of contracting it.

    A recent working paper from University of Chicago economists Austan Goolsbee and Chad Syverson used cellphone records data from SafeGraph on customer visits to more than 2.25 million individual businesses across 110 industries. They concluded that overall consumer traffic fell by 60 percentage points but that “legal restrictions explain only 7 percentage points of this. Individual choices were far more important and seem tied to fears of infection.”

    As such research suggests, recent metrics point to a slowing in economic activity that predates the latest shutdown orders. The initial jobless claims data, which were also updated Thursday morning, revealed that an additional 1.4 million people filed for benefits.

    Foot traffic to stores had picked up in May but seems to have plateaued, according to recent SafeGraph data.

    Consumer spending, as tracked by Chase, was picking up through the spring yet more recently seems to have dipped again.

    The same goes for trends in restaurant reservations, as measured by OpenTable.

    Other data, including from Homebase (which offers scheduling software to small businesses), suggests that small-business operations and employment were recovering in the spring but have also plateaued in recent weeks.

    “While cities like New York and San Francisco had lower troughs, they’ve steadily improved, while cities like Houston and Phoenix have plateaued or given back some of their early gains,” Homebase analysts said in a recent report. “These plateaus suggest we may have ~20% permanent closures on Main Street.”

    Federal Reserve officials have expressed concern that economic conditions could get much worse with a renewed spike in infections, according to meeting minutes released Wednesday. The path of the pandemic aside, other major economic risks loom on the horizon.

    In particular, a major fiscal time bomb is about to detonate.

    Enhanced unemployment benefits are scheduled to expire at the end of July, and Republicans have said that no way, no how will the program be renewed, even if unemployment remains in double digits. Some have expressed concerns that the enhanced benefit — a flat $600 federal top-up — might disincentivize work because some workers receive more in benefits than they earned in wages. But that design could be amended.

    Additionally, states and localities are going broke. Thanks to covid-19, their tax revenue has plummeted and their expenses have gone up. Lucy Dadayan of the Tax Policy Center estimates that the pandemic will reduce state revenue alone by $200 billion over fiscal 2020 and 2021. Governors (and mayors and other local officials) have pleaded for federal help. Unlike most states and municipalities, after all, the feds don’t have to worry about balanced budgets.

    While there is bipartisan support in Congress for providing state aid, it hasn’t happened yet. The Democratic-controlled House passed another stimulus bill that included funding for states, but Republican Senate leaders declined to take it up. They have said they don’t plan to finalize their own bill until the end of July. Perversely, the gains in Thursday’s jobs report might reduce pressure on lawmakers to pass this needed legislation.

    This week, however most states started a new fiscal year. Already, states and localities have laid off about 1.5 million employees since the pandemic began. Unless federal aid comes through soon, expect huge new public-sector layoffs and service cuts in the months ahead, followed by knock-on job losses in the private sector.

    That “scariest jobs chart" could well get scarier.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/02/us-job-market-is-still-very-bad-shape-just-wait-until-fiscal-time-bomb-goes-off/

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,485
    Apologies for the wonky graph posts.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 37,318
    edited July 2
    Monmouth has Biden up by 13%! Monmouth is always one of, if not the best pollsters out there.

    Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.

    https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_070220/

    “Half of all registered voters have ruled out backing Trump. Trump showed in 2016 that he can thread the needle, but these results suggest the president has even less room for error in 2020. He must convert some of those unlikely supporters if he is to win a second term,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.

    A key difference from four years ago is that fewer voters have a negative opinion of the Democratic nominee. Biden’s rating stands at 44% favorable and 44% unfavorable. It was 42%–49% in early June. Hillary Clinton’s rating in July 2016 was 34% favorable and 52% unfavorable. Trump currently has a negative 38% favorable and 55% unfavorable opinion. It was 38%–57% in early June. As a candidate four years ago, he held a 31% favorable and 53% unfavorable rating.

    Overall, 21% of all registered voters do not have a favorable opinion of either party’s nominee. Trump did well with this “double negative” group in 2016. The National Election Pool exit poll showed him ultimately winning their vote after Clinton held a small edge throughout the campaign. But he is getting swamped among these voters this time around. Biden leads by 55% to 21% among this group.

    “Four years ago, Clinton was the insider candidate who approximated an incumbent in many voters’ minds. There is no mistaking who wears that mantle this year. Trump’s problem is that voters who aren’t enamored with either candidate tend to go for change,” said Murray.

    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,595
    Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.

    The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 11,184
    Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,564
    Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.
    The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

    Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

    Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

    All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,595
    OnWis97 said:
    Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.
    The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

    Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

    Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

    All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.
    Well that all makes sense since you're coming from the a POV that Trump wins in November. But I don't think he has a chance. I know it's still four months away and a lot can change. But I just can't fathom Trump winning any new support. And it's his own dumb fault. If he went along with Covid precautions, voters that were against him might've felt that he was showing leadership. But nope, he all-but-suggested that wearing a mask makes you a pussy. He's changing his tune on that now, but it's too late. He also could have taken advantage of the George Floyd thing by trying to be a mediator between protesters and police (I know, he's incapable of something like that, but this is just a hypothetical). But no, he fanned the flames of division even further. 

    As I've been saying, he's going to lose Texas and thus, in my opinion, it's going to be a landslide victory for.....um.....who's he running against again?
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,595
    Joe Biden. That's right. He's running against Joe Biden. Almost forgot. 
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  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 7,100
    Poncier said:
    Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.
    Anyone have any polls? I would honestly be curious.  I've never seen any that show that Pence has any sort of national electability. Sure he can win a midwestern Christian block, but he wouldn't have any shot with the godless heathens on the coasts. I remember prior to the primaries a poll showing Biden beating Pence by a wide margin in Ohio, but don't recall ever seeing a national poll about Pence in a general election against Biden.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,421
    I don't see Trump dropping out but if he did is Pence automatically the Republican nominee?  If it was before the Convention couldn't they nominate someone else?
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,241
    pjhawks said:
    I don't see Trump dropping out but if he did is Pence automatically the Republican nominee?  If it was before the Convention couldn't they nominate someone else?
    Yes they would go through a nomination process.  I can't imagine anyone other than Pence wanting to enter that bloodbath though.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,564
    edited July 2
    OnWis97 said:
    Even more interesting is that 50% of voters have already ruled out voting for Trump. That is unreal. Just resign already, Don.
    The last thing you want is for him to resign, for electoral reasons anyway. Of course a resignation would be good to be rid of him. But I'd wager a guess that at this point, Pence would have a better shot at winning in November than Trump. I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden or a condemnation of the GOP. I think it's just people being sick of Trump. So Pence might be a better nominee, if it came to that. I don't think Pence would win, but stranger things have happened. 

    Bold: I still think Trump has a better shot. First, the people who are living and dying with him don't care about Pence one way or the other.  Some will vote for Pence to own the libs, others may just kinda lose interest.  Not only that, but Pence is going to be viewed as tied to Trump, anyway.  The only way I think it's even conceivable for someone to have a better shot than Trump is if some unfathomable scenario occurs where someone off the radar has the nomination land in their lap.  Like Trump and Pence both resigning and the GOP scrambling from scratch.

    Italic: I don't think the polls are an endorsement of Biden, either.  Biden is just the name people have to remember when they want to go and vote against Trump.  But to an extent, it might be a condemnation of the GOP. The GOP is the Party of Trump at this point.  He pretty much won the nomination because of a perfect storm of strange circumstances, but ever since then, the Party of Trump has been 100% behind its namesake. It feels like we're just starting to see some cracks in his GOP shield. Right now, Trump is the face of the party and will be until he's out of the White House.  Now, if he dropped out tomorrow, and Pence was placed on the top of the ticket in November, the question is whether middle-of-the road voters or disenchanted conservatives would take for granted that the GOP has moved on from Trump. I won't even pretend to now whether that four months would have that effect.  And if Trump does drop out, the closer that comes to the election, the more people will probably feel nervous about voting for his VP and party.

    All that said, I still think Trump wins this November.
    Well that all makes sense since you're coming from the a POV that Trump wins in November. But I don't think he has a chance. I know it's still four months away and a lot can change. But I just can't fathom Trump winning any new support. And it's his own dumb fault. If he went along with Covid precautions, voters that were against him might've felt that he was showing leadership. But nope, he all-but-suggested that wearing a mask makes you a pussy. He's changing his tune on that now, but it's too late. He also could have taken advantage of the George Floyd thing by trying to be a mediator between protesters and police (I know, he's incapable of something like that, but this is just a hypothetical). But no, he fanned the flames of division even further. 

    As I've been saying, he's going to lose Texas and thus, in my opinion, it's going to be a landslide victory for.....um.....who's he running against again?

    Well, even if I think he's going to win, I can agree with this.  Any "brilliant politician" that plays "3D" chess should have been able to make himself look much, much better.  He didn't see that most people are actually interested in at least mitigating Covid and the opportunity he had to bring everyone together. Most importantly, in this case and in almost all cases, as good as he is at getting his base more and more devoted to him, he doesn't understand how to widen that net. It reminds me of this kid I knew in middle school.  He was a good writer; loved to write and was gliding toward an A in English.  He was struggling with math...barely going to pass.  An he just put all of his effort into the English class. He didn't just get an A; he got an A with room to spare.  That's what Trump's been doing.  Roughly a third of the country (SAD!) will vote for him under any imaginable circumstances.  He seems to equate the same people approving of him so vociferously with broader support.  He's going to get that third to love him even more, but he doesn't seem too worried about the other 66% (in reality, he's probably just infringe all of the positive responses to his meltdowns as being broader than they are).  By bringing us together on Covid and talking out of both sides of his mouth about police (like a decent politician could do) he could have put himself in position to win 45 states. GWB was reelected in 2004 because of 2001.  Trump wasted an opportunity to be the leader we needed in 2020...well, in theory.  In reality, he's not capable.  This is the problem when you rely on division and domestic enemies to thrive; you fail when the country needs to be unified.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,241
    jeffbr said:
    Poncier said:
    Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.
    Anyone have any polls? I would honestly be curious.  I've never seen any that show that Pence has any sort of national electability. Sure he can win a midwestern Christian block, but he wouldn't have any shot with the godless heathens on the coasts. I remember prior to the primaries a poll showing Biden beating Pence by a wide margin in Ohio, but don't recall ever seeing a national poll about Pence in a general election against Biden.
    Pence would not have won re-election as Gov of Indiana if tRump wouldn't have picked him for VP.  He generated as much hatred as tRump does nationally.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,211
    Poncier said:
    Pence would definitely have a better shot. At least comes across as a statesman and is far less divisive. He disguises his biases and hatred much better.
    Does he?  His failed policies (immigration bad, obamacare bad, LGBTQ+ bad, socialism bad, tax cuts for the rich good, police, police, police good, keep the private prisons full, all of MAGA really) are carbon copies of failed Trumpolicies. 
    I don't think he could carry his own state.

    On his way to getting STOMPED Trumpito gonna replace him with someone WAY shinier in Sept. 
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,211
    I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,241
    ikiT said:
    I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.
    That is Pence's only saving grace.  I would trust him making military decisions more than tRump.  That's about it though.  He's the worst kind of christian.  He tells you how much god means to him and then does the exact opposite of what such a person should do.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,564
    ikiT said:
    I think all the Russian interference was Don's idea.  Pence would never.
    That's another piece of whether Pence would have a better shot: Trump went to Russia for money when he could not get money here.  Vlad has him by the short-hairs.  Would Russia bother trying to help Pence out?  Maybe; Pence probably knows enough that he's beholden, too.
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    2011 Alpine, Alpine
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    2014 St. Paul
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 37,318
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,485
    Who here is surprised?

    July 2, 2020 at 10:48 a.m. EDT

    President Trump’s nominee to be ambassador to Norway is facing demands that he abandon his pursuit of the diplomatic post following the unearthing of a 1994 court filing indicating his involvement in the production of a racist campaign flier against an African American politician in Georgia.

    According to the filing, Mark Burkhalter helped create a flier that distorted and exaggerated the features of Gordon Joyner, a candidate for county commissioner in north-central Georgia. Joyner was pictured with some features darkened, a large Afro, enlarged eyebrows and a warped eye.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-pick-for-ambassador-involved-in-racist-smear-against-black-politician/2020/07/02/3505e15a-bc13-11ea-86d5-3b9b3863273b_story.html
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,241
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
    Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 37,318
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
    Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  
    Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,564
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
    Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  
    Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

    Hard to say. A year ago, his popularity may have been about where Trump's was; maybe a bit higher since some people are pretty horrified about Trump's bizarre behavior.

    Pence probably has the wherewithal to have taken better advantage of the opportunity that Covid provided...he might have been able to pull off a Dubya-9/11.  So the more I think about it, the more I think he could have been around 50%.  I don't think he'd have been able to navigate the Floyd murder and subsequent unrest better than Trump did, though.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 37,318
    OnWis97 said:
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
    Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  
    Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 

    Hard to say. A year ago, his popularity may have been about where Trump's was; maybe a bit higher since some people are pretty horrified about Trump's bizarre behavior.

    Pence probably has the wherewithal to have taken better advantage of the opportunity that Covid provided...he might have been able to pull off a Dubya-9/11.  So the more I think about it, the more I think he could have been around 50%.  I don't think he'd have been able to navigate the Floyd murder and subsequent unrest better than Trump did, though.
    Blasphemy. My 5 year old nephew would have handled that better. Literally not tweeting and retweeting racist shit is the bar he would have to clear to do a better job than Trump on that stuff. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,816
    If Pence were president, I would bet his approval rating would be around 50% at this point. 
    Probably....or at least somewhere near 50%. I don't think Pence would have ignored the virus planning like tRump did.  
    Of course not. A lot of people in here would have hated Pence but....Pence is a normal functioning human being who would've recognized the importance of at least pretending to care about people other than those in his base. 
    Pence ignored the HIV hotspot bubbling in Indiana and actually removed the needle exchange program.  So you never know, he may have ignored this.  Or maybe because it wasn't drug users, he would not have. 
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