Donald Trump

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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    The omnipresent culture of INTIMIDATION that comes directly from this WH is dangerous. 
    Normalizing this behavior, even for a second, no matter the cost, is caving into these fascist demands.   Think Marco Rubio.

    I'm am not contending that my answer is the only acceptable one.  However, it is not hyperbole.
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,438
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


    So communists, socialists, and other political philosophies could not have tax payer funded rallies?  What about when Obama would go to Silicon Valley and speak to business groups or employees at someplace like Cisco?  Fascism?  When does a 'speech' become a rally? Trump certainly has authoritarian tendencies and his worst impulses are likely closest to fascism, vs other political philosophies.  But many of those worst impulses have been checked by the courts, by Congress and even by some of his admin (increasingly few).  A fascist dictator would have none of these impulses checked.  

    Hyperbole does not help the case to remove Trump.  He's terrible enough without it.  
    When Obama gave speeches in Silicon Valley, were the employees told they would not be paid if they did not attend, and that furthermore they were not permitted to protest in any way? 
    My guess is the employees Obama talked to were exempt employees, so it's not an accurate comparison.  But for the sake of argument, are you saying the Trump administration instructed the Shell management to to not pay them if they didn't show?  I have not read that the administration made that call and told Shell to go forth.
    Do you pay non-exempt employees when they don't come to work and out of PTO?  I don't.  

    "Work" is what you are hired to do, and paid to do. It's deliberately misleading for you to characterize this as "... when they don't come to work...". If you are hired for a specific job with specific hours, and then your company tries to say that you need to participate in a political rally instead of your actual job in order to get paid, then that is nothing more than bullshit. The company didn't have a mechanical issue, a power failure, a natural disaster, or other unexpected event that shut down the plant - they chose to shut down for the rally. Given that, they should have paid the employees who chose not to attend for their time, just as they paid the employees who "chose" to attend for their time, because otherwise they are discriminating on the basis of political views. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,005
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    I contend the taxpayer funded "rally" is Fascism.


    So communists, socialists, and other political philosophies could not have tax payer funded rallies?  What about when Obama would go to Silicon Valley and speak to business groups or employees at someplace like Cisco?  Fascism?  When does a 'speech' become a rally? Trump certainly has authoritarian tendencies and his worst impulses are likely closest to fascism, vs other political philosophies.  But many of those worst impulses have been checked by the courts, by Congress and even by some of his admin (increasingly few).  A fascist dictator would have none of these impulses checked.  

    Hyperbole does not help the case to remove Trump.  He's terrible enough without it.  
    When Obama gave speeches in Silicon Valley, were the employees told they would not be paid if they did not attend, and that furthermore they were not permitted to protest in any way? 
    My guess is the employees Obama talked to were exempt employees, so it's not an accurate comparison.  But for the sake of argument, are you saying the Trump administration instructed the Shell management to to not pay them if they didn't show?  I have not read that the administration made that call and told Shell to go forth.
    Do you pay non-exempt employees when they don't come to work and out of PTO?  I don't.  

    "Work" is what you are hired to do, and paid to do. It's deliberately misleading for you to characterize this as "... when they don't come to work...". If you are hired for a specific job with specific hours, and then your company tries to say that you need to participate in a political rally instead of your actual job in order to get paid, then that is nothing more than bullshit. The company didn't have a mechanical issue, a power failure, a natural disaster, or other unexpected event that shut down the plant - they chose to shut down for the rally. Given that, they should have paid the employees who chose not to attend for their time, just as they paid the employees who "chose" to attend for their time, because otherwise they are discriminating on the basis of political views. 
    If you go back and read what I wrote, I said the only one to be held 'to blame' in this would be Shell for choosing to shut down the factory for the political event.  That's a valid criticism, but not one that is unique and specific to this administration.  If the Trump admin threatened to pull a gov't contract if Shell didn't do so, then that would be authoritarian coercion.  But I have not seen anything that indicates that is what happened.  But factories shut down lines, eliminate shifts, close down for singular days when there is an overstock or supply chain issue all the time.  So you'll never have a union contract that guarantees that someone gets paid whether the line is open or not.  
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    edited August 19
    it's still a valid and truthful "list" no matter where it is, or isn't, for sale.
    Post edited by ikiT on
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946

    Bristow VA 05132010 Montreal QC 09072011 Worcester MA 10152013-10162013 Charlottesville VA 10292013 Phoenix AZ 11192013 Leeds UK 07082014 Memphis TN 10142014
    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,294
    What do you wanna point out with your link?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,268
    I do not know of any union that can conduct union activity on an employers property or at the employer-sponsored event.  And the employers have every right to set workplace rules (within reason) if they are paying you.

    I'd love to see some of you conduct union activity on your employer's property while being paid...lmfao.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,457
    ikiT said:
    it's still a truthful "list" no matter where it is, or isn't, for sale.
    This could be said about almost every Republican president before Trump more or less.  It's part of their platform so I wonder if the person that made this in 2003 wasn't happy with Dubya?
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,758
    ikiT said:
    it's still a valid and truthful "list" no matter where it is, or isn't, for sale.
    It's a list made up by a guy that ended up being used during GW admin and then sold as a poster.  Just stating the facts. I've seen it a bunch and think people should know where their pictures and memes come from.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,457
    ikiT said:
    it's still a valid and truthful "list" no matter where it is, or isn't, for sale.
    It's a list made up by a guy that ended up being used during GW admin and then sold as a poster.  Just stating the facts. I've seen it a bunch and think people should know where their pictures and memes come from.
    This is funny, I wrote the same thing in a question though, lol!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,723
    in part, I assume its this.....

    The list was originally created by Laurence Britt in 2003, for an article published by Free Inquiry magazine (a publication for secular humanist commentary and analysis).  While subsequent postings of the list often attribute it to “Dr. Laurence Britt,” the author said that he was not actually a doctor (nor did he claim to be). Britt himself said that he could be more accurately described as an amateur historian:

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    Is it FALSE though? 
    The CFS is real.
    Bristow VA 05132010 Montreal QC 09072011 Worcester MA 10152013-10162013 Charlottesville VA 10292013 Phoenix AZ 11192013 Leeds UK 07082014 Memphis TN 10142014
    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,005
    ikiT said:
    Is it FALSE though? 
    The CFS is real.
    You could apply just about everyone of those to stalinist Russia or even Argentina.  Yet communism is the ideological enemy of fascism. 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    I'm more worried about Trumpistan.
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    carry on
    Bristow VA 05132010 Montreal QC 09072011 Worcester MA 10152013-10162013 Charlottesville VA 10292013 Phoenix AZ 11192013 Leeds UK 07082014 Memphis TN 10142014
    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    the Holocaust Museum poster is not as important as the actual definition.

    fascism

     noun
    fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-  \

    Definition of fascism

    1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
    Bristow VA 05132010 Montreal QC 09072011 Worcester MA 10152013-10162013 Charlottesville VA 10292013 Phoenix AZ 11192013 Leeds UK 07082014 Memphis TN 10142014
    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    edited August 19
    The culture of OVERT INTIMIDATION is BAD.
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    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,758
    ikiT said:
    the Holocaust Museum poster is not as important as the actual definition.

    fascism

     noun
    fas·​cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-  \

    Definition of fascism

    1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

    hippiemom = goodness
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    edited August 19
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    Is it FALSE though? 
    The CFS is real.
    You could apply just about everyone of those to stalinist Russia or even Argentina.  Yet communism is the ideological enemy of fascism. 
    I'm not that smart. 
    Although....now I clearly see why DJT and the repubes are so busy LABELING the Socialists/Communists.
    Post edited by ikiT on
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    Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018

    EV Providence 06152011 
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,742
    Got to love supporters of the currently elected president.....


    I laughed all the way through that...thanks. :) . Happy Monday.

    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,866
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:

    The union person was fine with it. 


    “This is just what Shell wanted to do and we went along with it,” Ken Broadbent, business manager for Steamfitters Local 449, told the newspaper. He said he wouldn’t “bad rap” the situation.

    “We’re glad to have the jobs. We’re glad to have the project built,” he said. “The president is the president whether we like him or dislike him. We respect him for the title.”

    America
    Everyone involved in that fascist move should fired. Including Trump. I am in a union, and if they tried to pull this, everyone would have shown up with fucking torches and pitchforks. And the Laboir board would have been on the company like a rabid pitbull. The fact that the workers actually felt cowed enough to tolerate this, and that the union rep actually felt like this was an option, definitely does speak volumes about where America is right now, both politically and in terms of workers' rights. Absolutely disgusting. Fascism has arrived in the USA.
    You must be operating under your own special definition of fascism.  As much as I hate Trump, this isn't fascism.  If the plant is closed, why would one be paid for not being onsite? That's part of the union contract. 
    Disgusting take on this.
    This about sums up the depth of your debating skills.  
    "But my MRI"
    So give away your MRI machine before checking if you can still retain access, see what I care. Asking for due diligence before a 'rip and replace' on something as significant as a healthcare system seems pragmatic to everyone except for you. To you, for what ever reason, it's selfish to plan. Not to mention that this was clearly an unrelated ad hominem attack, unrelated in almost every way to the conversation at hand. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,742
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,005
    Trump comes out today and says economy is very strong.  But also starts railing on the fed to cut the fed funds rate.  

    And now his aids are exploring a proposal to cut payroll taxes.  Yet no recession is on the horizon. 

    The reasoning is perfectly rational but also telling.  Economy is the only issue above 50 for him.  He can't take a chance with it,  so he'll pump it full of steroids if necessary just to very through the general.  It shows how weak he perceives his own position. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,821
    I thought it was interesting that Scaramucci predicted tRump will drop out of the race in March/Apr when it is apparent that he can't win.  That assumes the economy takes a dive by then.  

    I don't disagree.  He would rather bow out and make up some stupid excuse for not running (his business needs him, he fixed everything now he's done, etc) than actually lose.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,267
    given what we know about his narcissism, there's no way I can believe he'd be aware of his own unpopularity enough to drop out. he literally thinks he's the most popular and effective president in history, and anyone who doesn't like him is a jealous loser. 

    you really believe he'll exit?
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,718
    I thought it was interesting that Scaramucci predicted tRump will drop out of the race in March/Apr when it is apparent that he can't win.  That assumes the economy takes a dive by then.  

    I don't disagree.  He would rather bow out and make up some stupid excuse for not running (his business needs him, he fixed everything now he's done, etc) than actually lose.
    No way he drops out , he’s already banking on Russia’s interference to get him another term ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,821
    given what we know about his narcissism, there's no way I can believe he'd be aware of his own unpopularity enough to drop out. he literally thinks he's the most popular and effective president in history, and anyone who doesn't like him is a jealous loser. 

    you really believe he'll exit?
    He's acknowledging the Fox News poll that shows him behind so he knows the economy is the only thing keeping his head above water.

    I can see it happening although I won't be surprised if he stays in.  I think he felt like he would lose the 2016 election and would just blame the "rigged system" for his loss.  Dropping out gives him the opportunity to not lose which is what scares him the most.  I guess he could still try to blame a rigged system but I think the margin will be much wider this time.  Hard to argue it's rigged when you get your ass kicked.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,267
    given what we know about his narcissism, there's no way I can believe he'd be aware of his own unpopularity enough to drop out. he literally thinks he's the most popular and effective president in history, and anyone who doesn't like him is a jealous loser. 

    you really believe he'll exit?
    He's acknowledging the Fox News poll that shows him behind so he knows the economy is the only thing keeping his head above water.

    I can see it happening although I won't be surprised if he stays in.  I think he felt like he would lose the 2016 election and would just blame the "rigged system" for his loss.  Dropping out gives him the opportunity to not lose which is what scares him the most.  I guess he could still try to blame a rigged system but I think the margin will be much wider this time.  Hard to argue it's rigged when you get your ass kicked.
    the thing is, he's not acknowledging the fox news poll, but saying "something is up at fox", so he thinks since it is unfavorable to him, it mus be "fake news" or rigged in some way. he will never believe he's going to lose. it won't matter how many people close to him tell him he will. partially because of his ego, but also because everyone told him that/said that in 2016. and look how that turned out. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,946
    given what we know about his narcissism, there's no way I can believe he'd be aware of his own unpopularity enough to drop out. he literally thinks he's the most popular and effective president in history, and anyone who doesn't like him is a jealous loser. 

    you really believe he'll exit?
    He's acknowledging the Fox News poll that shows him behind so he knows the economy is the only thing keeping his head above water.

    I can see it happening although I won't be surprised if he stays in.  I think he felt like he would lose the 2016 election and would just blame the "rigged system" for his loss.  Dropping out gives him the opportunity to not lose which is what scares him the most.  I guess he could still try to blame a rigged system but I think the margin will be much wider this time.  Hard to argue it's rigged when you get your ass kicked.
    he gonna get stomped yo
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