Did Brendan O'Brien destroy Pearl Jam's Analog Master tapes?

mfc2006

buck502000 said:

I just sucks to think PJ couldn't do MOFI stuff even if they wanted to. Weezer did.....

That would be awesome

my2hands

Tim Simmons said:

Eh, maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I find myself continually disappointed by new pressings. And when you hear a great pressing like a Music Matters Jazz pressing or Analogue recordings reissue, its night and day. I guess what I should have said most new pressings are passable as opposed to sounding great and I just don't think PJ wax is particularly terrible. I guess the bad rap probably has more to do with the general mastering of the last 3 studio LPs. I guess Ten and Vitalogy reissues weren't great either. But original pressings and other newer releases (including No Code and Yield reissues) have been standard.

That's because most new vinyl is not being recorded or mastered for vinyl... most new LP's are simply cd's pressed to wax... that's why pre 1990 stuff sounds so good because every album was recorded and produced for vinyl records... thats also why older records are much shorter than modern albums... when a new record is actually recorded and mastered for vinyl it sounds amazing... Ben & Ellen Harper put out an album a year or two ago... it was mastered properly for vinyl right from analog tapes and when I play it, it sounds like they are right in my living room. Amazing. I have an REM record, original pressing from the 1980's in great condition, it sounds absolutely amazing

Most new artists are just slapping the digital files on some wax and kids think they are cool because they are buying vinyl... the industry is tricking them and ripping them off... that's why you can't tell or they don't sound good

For vinyl the recording and production/mastering of the album is extremely important

That's what I understand as a novice anyway, if you're going to buy vinyl make sure it was designed to actually be applied to the vinyl format, otherwise save your money and just get the MP3 or cd

my2hands

And I agree the PJ vaults are the best sounding vinyl in their catalog

Tim Simmons

my2hands said:

Tim Simmons said:

Eh, maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I find myself continually disappointed by new pressings. And when you hear a great pressing like a Music Matters Jazz pressing or Analogue recordings reissue, its night and day. I guess what I should have said most new pressings are passable as opposed to sounding great and I just don't think PJ wax is particularly terrible. I guess the bad rap probably has more to do with the general mastering of the last 3 studio LPs. I guess Ten and Vitalogy reissues weren't great either. But original pressings and other newer releases (including No Code and Yield reissues) have been standard.

That's because most new vinyl is not being recorded or mastered for vinyl... most new LP's are simply cd's pressed to wax... that's why pre 1990 stuff sounds so good because every album was recorded and produced for vinyl records... thats also why older records are much shorter than modern albums... when a new record is actually recorded and mastered for vinyl it sounds amazing... Ben & Ellen Harper put out an album a year or two ago... it was mastered properly for vinyl right from analog tapes and when I play it, it sounds like they are right in my living room. Amazing. I have an REM record, original pressing from the 1980's in great condition, it sounds absolutely amazing

Most new artists are just slapping the digital files on some wax and kids think they are cool because they are buying vinyl... the industry is tricking them and ripping them off... that's why you can't tell or they don't sound good

For vinyl the recording and production/mastering of the album is extremely important

That's what I understand as a novice anyway, if you're going to buy vinyl make sure it was designed to actually be applied to the vinyl format, otherwise save your money and just get the MP3 or cd

Yeah, that's more or less spot on. I don't think most records are cd to wax though. I'm pretty sure it's the digital master that's used for the cd. Sometimes it's a red book cd, but I'd wager more often than not, it's a digital file, sometimes of a high resolution. But I'd posit it has less to do with the source of the music, and more to do with how it's cut. With the increased demand for vinyl, the best master era and cutters only have so much time, so more novice cutters, get work. You couple that with how many fewer people who cut back in the day are around cutting/training new people to master, you get sub par vinyl.

Zod

Tim Simmons said:

Yeah, that's more or less spot on. I don't think most records are cd to wax though. I'm pretty sure it's the digital master that's used for the cd. Sometimes it's a red book cd, but I'd wager more often than not, it's a digital file, sometimes of a high resolution. But I'd posit it has less to do with the source of the music, and more to do with how it's cut. With the increased demand for vinyl, the best master era and cutters only have so much time, so more novice cutters, get work. You couple that with how many fewer people who cut back in the day are around cutting/training new people to master, you get sub par vinyl.

I would agree. I think back in the day before Vinyl waned in popularity. CD's and Vinyl were sources from the same master. There was no separate master with a different mastering process just for vinyl. They'd have a high quality master (analog or high quality digital) and it could be downconverted to the various formats. That's why CD and Vinyl sound so similar from the day. You just get that little extra from the analog quality of vinyl, but the mix/mastering is exactly the same, so they sound familiar.

I don't think it's changed too much. Not that many bands bother to do a separate master for vinyl, thus many modern vinyl suffer from the same loudness issues the cd has, because it's all from the same master.

That really sad thing is you shouldn't need a separate master for vinyl. How much better would cd's sound if they used the same master that the "audiophile" vinyl releases use... lol.

mfc2006

my2hands said:

Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.

my2hands

mfc2006 said:

my2hands said:

Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.

Save your money and buy the reissue whenever it happens. Until then, your cd is the exact same thing

mfc2006

my2hands said:

mfc2006 said:

my2hands said:

Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.

Save your money and buy the reissue whenever it happens. Until then, your cd is the exact same thing

that's the thing...I doubt it will be reissued.

Tim Simmons

It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

my2hands

Tim Simmons said:

It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you

mfc2006

my2hands said:

Tim Simmons said:

It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you

that's very true...great LP.

SomethingCreative

my2hands said:

Tim Simmons said:

It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you

hmmm I think I saw of copy of this at my local shop guess I know what I'm doing my next day off. Even the CD sounds amazing imo.

At risk of derailing this thread... For some newer albums I'd recommend Queens of the Stoneage "...Like Clockwork" and My Morning Jacket's "The Waterfall"

darthvedder

my2hands said:

And I agree the PJ vaults are the best sounding vinyl in their catalog

But they're still sourced from digital, no?

Tim Simmons

Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

I think people get too hung up on the source used for the vinyl. It comes down to the mastering. Granted the source can matter, but the vaults are a perfect example. They are probably sourced from DATs or a digital recording, but they are cut and pressed well and sound fantastic.

Lost In Ohio

Digital on vinyl is still digital... basically, it's just a fancy way to play a FLAC-HD or whatever.

Any analog record is going to have the soundwave pressed right onto the vinyl...something you can't get from digital.

Tim Simmons

right.

Nick Namenone

check out the Hydrogen Audio Vinyl Myths. Pretty interesting reading.

MedozK

Tim Simmons said:

Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

darthvedder

Tim Simmons said:

Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

I think people get too hung up on the source used for the vinyl. It comes down to the mastering. Granted the source can matter, but the vaults are a perfect example. They are probably sourced from DATs or a digital recording, but they are cut and pressed well and sound fantastic.

I think people get too hung up on thinking vinyl is superior to digital. Digital, like vinyl, comes down to the mastering.

Dr.Teeth and the Electric Mayh

buck502000 said:

Binaural sound pretty damn good on my rig. Glad BoB didn't get his grubby mitts on that one

pretty sure he mixed it