Here is my argument to your statement of them having 8 years to find a replacement. One, they did not have 8 years. Obamacare was not rolled out until a few years into his term, you cant replace/improve on something that doesn't exist. It also took another couple years to see that it is a failure. So realistically they had 3-4 years to think of a replacement. Sure, maybe still enough time to get started, but not the 8 that you were claiming. Obama Admin had over 8 years to come up with something that works. He ran his first campaign on having Obamacare, surely he had some ideas then, and was starting working with people on planning it before he was making it his campaign promise. So, what they couldn't do in 10 years, you're faulting the GOP for not doing a better job in 3?
You are twisting it up to suit yourself. They have been screaming repeal and replace since it was passed, they haven't come up with a plan in that time. That has nothing to do with Democrats' failures in the act.
okay, even in that scenario, why are you so critical that they couldn't get done in 5 years what they previously couldn't do in 10? I don't actually think it is unreasonable at this point. They knew nothing would pass while Obama was in office, and every GOP candidate had a completely different idea on how to solve it. Some even just wanted to twink it and not even remove and replace it. So they haven't been working on a replacement for 8 years, or even 2 years. And probably not even since Trump won the Primary since most thought he'd lose. Probably just since November have they seriously been thinking about and working on a replacement plan.
I never said Trump is going to solve healthcare. Just that at this point in time it is unreasonable to criticize them for not having solved it yet. And in 4 years when someone complains I would agree.
okay, even in that scenario, why are you so critical that they couldn't get done in 5 years what they previously couldn't do in 10? I don't actually think it is unreasonable at this point. They knew nothing would pass while Obama was in office, and every GOP candidate had a completely different idea on how to solve it. Some even just wanted to twink it and not even remove and replace it. So they haven't been working on a replacement for 8 years, or even 2 years. And probably not even since Trump won the Primary since most thought he'd lose. Probably just since November have they seriously been thinking about and working on a replacement plan.
Massachusetts has had a plan that was signed by Mitt Romney. Obama even offered to incorporate parts of that and other republican features but they wouldn't go along. The republicans had no intention of proposing another plan. Its only now with people screaming that they better not take it away without replacing it that they're claiming they have a plan. And they still don't have one. Height of irresponsibility. They voted 40+ times to overturn the ACA without ever having a semblance of something to replace it with. That is just being clueless and petty.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts passed a health care reform law in 2006 with the aim of providing health insurance to nearly all of its residents. The law mandated that nearly every resident of Massachusetts obtain a minimum level of insurance coverage, provided free health care insurance for residents earning less than 150% of the federal poverty level (FPL) and mandated employers with more than 10 "full-time" employees to provide healthcare insurance. The law was amended significantly in 2008 and twice in 2010 to make it consistent with the federal Affordable Care Act. Major revisions related to health care industry price controls were passed in August 2012, and the employer mandate was repealed in 2013 in favor of the federal mandate (even though enforcement of the federal mandate was delayed until January 2015).[1] Because Mitt Romney was the governor of Massachusetts at the time, the law has colloquially been called Romneycare, a reference to the nicknaming of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as "Obamacare".[2]
Among its many effects, the law established an independent public authority, the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, also known as the Massachusetts Health Connector. The Connector acts as an insurance broker to offer free, highly subsidized and full-price private insurance plans to residents, including through its web site. As such it is one of the models of the Affordable Care Act's health insurance exchanges. The 2006 Massachusetts law successfully covered approximately two-thirds of the state's then-uninsured residents, half via federal-government-paid-for Medicaid expansion (administered by MassHealth) and half via the Connector's free and subsidized network-tiered health care insurance for those not eligible for expanded Medicaid. Relatively few Massachusetts residents used the Connector to buy full-priced insurance.
Notice how Massachusetts has amended the law several times since passage? That's what republicans could have done, worked to make it better, build off of something, show initiative and that they cared. But because the black guy was president, all they could do was attempt to make him fail as their number one priority.
I wouldn't argue there were attempts to make him fail. I would argue, however, the claims that those attempts were based on race. A lot of people don't like members of the opposing party. And if he happens to be black that doesn't make you racist. Is every black man who hates Trump a racist? Of course not. It wasn't about the race card.
I wouldn't argue there were attempts to make him fail. I would argue, however, the claims that those attempts were based on race. A lot of people don't like members of the opposing party. And if he happens to be black that doesn't make you racist. Is every black man who hates Trump a racist? Of course not. It wasn't about the race card.
Obama was shown a level of disrespect that was unprecedented. And it continues today. What do you make of Trump stating, "you finally have a president?" Hey douchebag? You're number 45. There were 44 before you. The lack of respect shown Obama was clearly due to his race and not democratic policies. It was all a concerted effort to delegitimize Obama because of his race.
I think that level of disrespect was surpassed in the first 48 hours of the Trump presidency. People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater. If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance. *same level as Obama, not Trump.
I think that level of disrespect was surpassed in the first 48 hours of the Trump presidency. People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater. If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance.
Democrats have never, ever said, within moments of a president being sworn in, "that their number one priority was to see this president fail." Ever. You can believe it was partisan politics but I know better.
I think that level of disrespect was surpassed in the first 48 hours of the Trump presidency. People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater. If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance. *same level as Obama, not Trump.
But Obama wasn't far left. Racism underlied the irrational fear from the right. For years we heard about Socialist Obama and how he was going to destroy the country. The Kenyan Marxist crap fits right into this. Did people say Bill Clinton was a Socialist when they were trying to revamp healthcare? Was he trying to destroy the country? It was easy to push the fear because of the common prejudice that blacks are dangerous.
1. Wasn't Obama's intent to offer everyone access to medical? 2. Wasn't he stymied at various stages trying to accomplish this by Republican opponents wishing him to fail versus accomplish something for the people? 3. Does anyone think Trump is going to accomplish this task after consulting with health insurance CEOs for a plan? Do health insurance CEOs concern themselves with profit margins or patient care?
I think that level of disrespect was surpassed in the first 48 hours of the Trump presidency. People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater. If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance. *same level as Obama, not Trump.
But Obama wasn't far left. Racism underlied the irrational fear from the right. For years we heard about Socialist Obama and how he was going to destroy the country. The Kenyan Marxist crap fits right into this. Did people say Bill Clinton was a Socialist when they were trying to revamp healthcare? Was he trying to destroy the country? It was easy to push the fear because of the common prejudice that blacks are dangerous.
The Kenyan born thing was dumb. I don't think it was about racism though. It was one method some saw as a way to get someone they didn't like out of office. How many different ways have people talked about getting Trump out? You can not like someone who is black and still not be racist. If people reacted as drastically to Obama as people have to Trump, the cry for racism would be 10 times worse that is already is. My point being it isn't about racism, its about politics. Just because he was black doesn't mean everyone who opposes him does so because of his color. It seems that at least the implication is the majority of politicians who did that was their motivation. I just don't see that, and the reaction the left has to Trumps makes it obvious to me that it isn't about race. Its about politics and making the guy you didn't vote for look bad.
Same things were said about Hilary. O, you don't like Hilary? You must be sexist and not want a woman president.
You're comparing Obama the apple to trump the orange (da-dum tschhhh!!). No one is saying any criticism of Obama is racist. But you also can't deny that racism was a factor. If Sven had won, would there be claims that he was Swedish? And you cannot flip the situation, trying to make an equivalency to liberal trump response to conservative's response to Obama. trump is completely incompetent in the role of president, not to mention his delusional policies. If Jeb Bush was pres and liberals had the same response to him as they do to trump now, you would have a point.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
I think that level of disrespect was surpassed in the first 48 hours of the Trump presidency. People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater. If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance. *same level as Obama, not Trump.
But Obama wasn't far left. Racism underlied the irrational fear from the right. For years we heard about Socialist Obama and how he was going to destroy the country. The Kenyan Marxist crap fits right into this. Did people say Bill Clinton was a Socialist when they were trying to revamp healthcare? Was he trying to destroy the country? It was easy to push the fear because of the common prejudice that blacks are dangerous.
The Kenyan born thing was dumb. I don't think it was about racism though. It was one method some saw as a way to get someone they didn't like out of office. How many different ways have people talked about getting Trump out? You can not like someone who is black and still not be racist. If people reacted as drastically to Obama as people have to Trump, the cry for racism would be 10 times worse that is already is. My point being it isn't about racism, its about politics. Just because he was black doesn't mean everyone who opposes him does so because of his color. It seems that at least the implication is the majority of politicians who did that was their motivation. I just don't see that, and the reaction the left has to Trumps makes it obvious to me that it isn't about race. Its about politics and making the guy you didn't vote for look bad.
Same things were said about Hilary. O, you don't like Hilary? You must be sexist and not want a woman president.
the response to trump is nothing more than embarassment at who the US has as its leader. no president, ever, has been such a sideshow as this turd has been, and he's only a month in. I stated it before as well, no one would be this outraged/concerned/disgusted had it been any of the other nominees in the WH.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
You know who cringed? Senate majority leader Mitch McConnel and house speaker John Beohner. Those are two guys from a generation and states where compromising or working with a black guy is seen as a weakness if not treason. And their attitude and demeanor from day on illustrated that. They disrespected Obama time and time again. Clinton nor the White House were as disrespected despite the justification for such by clinton's behavior. Nor was bush despite his ineptness.
To me a more plausible explanation at the attempts to ensure his failure is the 2016 election. If Obama was seen as a failure, it would increase the chances of a GOP victory. If he was seen as a big success, Democrats would take the election. Political motivation, to me, seems like the more likely answer than the country and its leaders are fueled on racism. I will admit I have limited experience in the south. My wife, born and raised South Carolina in Greenville, did share some shocking stories of racism. But it has improved, and when we visit for about a month every year I see virtually no signs of it in the big cities down there. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just hasn't convinced me that it makes more sense than just the normal political BS that goes on.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
I also remember once reading that the public school system in the States classified both french fries and pizza as vegetable servings. True or not, it made me chuckle. Then cringe. Then cry.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
I also remember once reading that the public school system in the States classified both french fries and pizza as vegetable servings. True or not, it made me chuckle. Then cringe. Then cry.
To be fair, pizza is only classified as a vegetable by the USDA if it has at least 2 tablespoons of tomato paste.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
I also remember once reading that the public school system in the States classified both french fries and pizza as vegetable servings. True or not, it made me chuckle. Then cringe. Then cry.
To be fair, pizza is only classified as a vegetable by the USDA if it has at least 2 tablespoons of tomato paste.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
I also remember once reading that the public school system in the States classified both french fries and pizza as vegetable servings. True or not, it made me chuckle. Then cringe. Then cry.
Reagan's administration wanted ketchup classified as a vegetable. And Michelle Obama wanted kids to eat healthy and exercise more and more people to grow and eat their own vegetables. She was labeled a socialist and Obama was accused of trying to take away your rights. Because you know, healthy people cost the healthcare system so much more than junk food eating, soda swilling, high fat diet, smokers.
Yeah I'm sure some people in the deep south cringed at the thought of a black president. But I doubt that racism existed in congress where he was blocked because he was the first black president. Many of them thought he was incompetent as president, which would, to some extent, justify the attitude. It certainly has justified the behavior towards Trump.
Some in the South cringed? That would be the understatement of the year. Racism also factors in to the higher standards white's place on blacks to reach an acceptable level. Someone with a law degree, experience teaching law, and years of being a state senator and a US senator somehow was incompetent and unqualified. Hmmm.. wonder why that was said?
in a country where a public school thinks it's appropriate to serve fried chicken to celebrate black history month, it surprises me that people underestimate the existence of racism anywhere but the deep south.
I also remember once reading that the public school system in the States classified both french fries and pizza as vegetable servings. True or not, it made me chuckle. Then cringe. Then cry.
I favorite part about the south is they list "mac n cheese" as a veggie in their menus.
I never said Trump is going to solve healthcare. Just that at this point in time it is unreasonable to criticize them for not having solved it yet. And in 4 years when someone complains I would agree.
Sure we can criticize please tell us what was his campaign promise to his base concerning Obamacare , let me refresh your Sessions memory ... I will repeal&replace obamacare on day 1 ...
I think it would be safe to say that most would use basic judgment and consider his promise to be to start the ball rolling day 1. Even if the world's perfect health plan that would cure cancer by just be being enrolled in it, it still couldn't be reviewed, voted on, passed and rolled out on day 1.
I think it would be safe to say that most would use basic judgment and consider his promise to be to start the ball rolling day 1. Even if the world's perfect health plan that would cure cancer by just be being enrolled in it, it still couldn't be reviewed, voted on, passed and rolled out on day 1.
Yeah not even in 4 yrs please tell us that the GOP and this bafoon didn't have enough time to come up with a replacement plan by now ?
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They have been screaming repeal and replace since it was passed, they haven't come up with a plan in that time.
That has nothing to do with Democrats' failures in the act.
I don't actually think it is unreasonable at this point. They knew nothing would pass while Obama was in office, and every GOP candidate had a completely different idea on how to solve it. Some even just wanted to twink it and not even remove and replace it. So they haven't been working on a replacement for 8 years, or even 2 years. And probably not even since Trump won the Primary since most thought he'd lose. Probably just since November have they seriously been thinking about and working on a replacement plan.
Good luck with that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts passed a health care reform law in 2006 with the aim of providing health insurance to nearly all of its residents. The law mandated that nearly every resident of Massachusetts obtain a minimum level of insurance coverage, provided free health care insurance for residents earning less than 150% of the federal poverty level (FPL) and mandated employers with more than 10 "full-time" employees to provide healthcare insurance. The law was amended significantly in 2008 and twice in 2010 to make it consistent with the federal Affordable Care Act. Major revisions related to health care industry price controls were passed in August 2012, and the employer mandate was repealed in 2013 in favor of the federal mandate (even though enforcement of the federal mandate was delayed until January 2015).[1] Because Mitt Romney was the governor of Massachusetts at the time, the law has colloquially been called Romneycare, a reference to the nicknaming of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as "Obamacare".[2]
Among its many effects, the law established an independent public authority, the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, also known as the Massachusetts Health Connector. The Connector acts as an insurance broker to offer free, highly subsidized and full-price private insurance plans to residents, including through its web site. As such it is one of the models of the Affordable Care Act's health insurance exchanges. The 2006 Massachusetts law successfully covered approximately two-thirds of the state's then-uninsured residents, half via federal-government-paid-for Medicaid expansion (administered by MassHealth) and half via the Connector's free and subsidized network-tiered health care insurance for those not eligible for expanded Medicaid. Relatively few Massachusetts residents used the Connector to buy full-priced insurance.
Notice how Massachusetts has amended the law several times since passage? That's what republicans could have done, worked to make it better, build off of something, show initiative and that they cared. But because the black guy was president, all they could do was attempt to make him fail as their number one priority.
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I would argue, however, the claims that those attempts were based on race. A lot of people don't like members of the opposing party. And if he happens to be black that doesn't make you racist. Is every black man who hates Trump a racist? Of course not. It wasn't about the race card.
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People were very disrespectful of bush too. Obama was farther left than any previous president, makes sense that the criticism was greater.
If Pence were president, he'd receive the same level due to his far right stance.
*same level as Obama, not Trump.
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1. Wasn't Obama's intent to offer everyone access to medical?
2. Wasn't he stymied at various stages trying to accomplish this by Republican opponents wishing him to fail versus accomplish something for the people?
3. Does anyone think Trump is going to accomplish this task after consulting with health insurance CEOs for a plan? Do health insurance CEOs concern themselves with profit margins or patient care?
If people reacted as drastically to Obama as people have to Trump, the cry for racism would be 10 times worse that is already is. My point being it isn't about racism, its about politics. Just because he was black doesn't mean everyone who opposes him does so because of his color. It seems that at least the implication is the majority of politicians who did that was their motivation. I just don't see that, and the reaction the left has to Trumps makes it obvious to me that it isn't about race. Its about politics and making the guy you didn't vote for look bad.
Same things were said about Hilary. O, you don't like Hilary? You must be sexist and not want a woman president.
And you cannot flip the situation, trying to make an equivalency to liberal trump response to conservative's response to Obama. trump is completely incompetent in the role of president, not to mention his delusional policies. If Jeb Bush was pres and liberals had the same response to him as they do to trump now, you would have a point.
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I will admit I have limited experience in the south. My wife, born and raised South Carolina in Greenville, did share some shocking stories of racism. But it has improved, and when we visit for about a month every year I see virtually no signs of it in the big cities down there. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just hasn't convinced me that it makes more sense than just the normal political BS that goes on.
EV
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I will repeal&replace obamacare on day 1 ...