Obamacare is a mess

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2017

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.

That's too bad.

I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.

I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.

If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?

mace1229 · February 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.

Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it."
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.

Halifax2TheMax · February 2017

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it."
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.

Got a link to your 10% or more of our population are here illegal? Every problem can be traced back to those illegals.

Illegals have a net benefit to the US economy.

mace1229 · February 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.

I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.

I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.

If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?

Of course any decent person would stop. And by law hospitals have to treat anyone who comes in. Even someone who comes in and says "I'm here illegally, as soon as you release me I'm moving back to Mexico and I'll never pay you a dime." They still have to treat them.
But then they do leave, don't pay, and that cost is passed on to the next person who does pay, or the hospital shuts down if this happens too many times and they go out of business.
But my point is this happens much more often here than in most developed countries with a health care system. When someone is here illegally there is no way to track them and force them to pay. They don't have government ID, there's no tax returns to withhold or wages to garnish.
And if that did happen to me in Canada there's probably at least a way to track my passport and hassle me until I do pay. Its a much bigger problem here than anywhere else, and that's why copying your system and applying here would just collapse.

mace1229 · February 2017

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it."
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
Got a link to your 10% or more of our population are here illegal? Every problem can be traced back to those illegals.

Illegals have a net benefit to the US economy.

google.com

then type in "how many illegals in US."

you will find estimates from 8 million to 40 million. No one really knows because illegals are kinda here illegally.

mace1229 · February 2017

And I never said illegals were a problem to anything, those are words you added.
I simply just said using the healthcare example other countries have simply wouldn't work here. Or actually, I was saying using their example would cause riots because it would not cover the illegals that are also not covered in other countries. So anyone who says "other countries do it" are really just saying "lets not cover illegals" because other countries dont. But that would not work here.

HughFreakingDillon · February 2017

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it."
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.

well 30 claims we'd take care of someone even if they weren't a citizen.

mace1229 · February 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it."
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
well 30 claims we'd take care of someone even if they weren't a citizen.

Never had experience in Canada, but if that was the case, why do you have to show ID? Any other country would make you pay, my best judgment says they would too. But even if not, that does not happen there nearly as often as it happens here, so it really isn't a fair comparison.

PP193448 · February 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.

I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.

I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.

If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?

There are way too many visits to the ER that are not appropriate in the US. Way to much gaming of the system for immediate response. Family docs tell patients to go to the ER for anything after hours. Patients go to the ER because they don't want to wait 2 weeks to see their FP doc for the common cold, and want an antibiotic for every time they sneeze or cough. It's ridiculous. Compound that by the fact that some illegal immigrants utilize fake IDs and fake social security numbers when registering at hospitals to get treatment. No one can be denied emergency treatment in hospitals. The problem is that at least 50% of visits are probably not true emergencies. Healthcare in the US is fucked. No one has a right to free medical care in general. True emergency treatment should be covered for everyone regardless of citizen status. But there are too many lawyers and too many businessmen to not allow appropriate health care in this country.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2017

PP193448 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.

I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.

I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.

If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
There are way too many visits to the ER that are not appropriate in the US. Way to much gaming of the system for immediate response. Family docs tell patients to go to the ER for anything after hours. Patients go to the ER because they don't want to wait 2 weeks to see their FP doc for the common cold, and want an antibiotic for every time they sneeze or cough. It's ridiculous. Compound that by the fact that some illegal immigrants utilize fake IDs and fake social security numbers when registering at hospitals to get treatment. No one can be denied emergency treatment in hospitals. The problem is that at least 50% of visits are probably not true emergencies. Healthcare in the US is fucked. No one has a right to free medical care in general. True emergency treatment should be covered for everyone regardless of citizen status. But there are too many lawyers and too many businessmen to not allow appropriate health care in this country.

See I disagree. I think everyone should have the right to free medical care. It's the one thing that should be 'free'.

ElderlyWomanOH · February 2017

Illegal immigrants = approximately 3.5% of the US population, down from 4%.

According to my aunt, who gets all of her info from Fox, they are closer to 10-20% of the population and are simultaneously stealing our jobs and living on welfare.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

mace1229 · February 2017

PP193448 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

catefrances said:
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone.
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.

I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.

I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.

If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
There are way too many visits to the ER that are not appropriate in the US. Way to much gaming of the system for immediate response. Family docs tell patients to go to the ER for anything after hours. Patients go to the ER because they don't want to wait 2 weeks to see their FP doc for the common cold, and want an antibiotic for every time they sneeze or cough. It's ridiculous. Compound that by the fact that some illegal immigrants utilize fake IDs and fake social security numbers when registering at hospitals to get treatment. No one can be denied emergency treatment in hospitals. The problem is that at least 50% of visits are probably not true emergencies. Healthcare in the US is fucked. No one has a right to free medical care in general. True emergency treatment should be covered for everyone regardless of citizen status. But there are too many lawyers and too many businessmen to not allow appropriate health care in this country.

That is 100% accurate too.
People who don't give a crap about their credit go to the ER instead of a normal doctor, because they have to be seen (even for a common cold) and then never pay the bill. Normal doctor office can refuse service, ER can't. They see it as a free service to just abuse the ER.
I never personally experience long appointments for a family doc, if I call within an hour or 2 of them opening I almost always get a same-day appointment. I think the 2-week thing is exaggerated. But it is true if you call at 2 in the afternoon it is too late to fit you in for the day, or want to get seen on weekends they tell you to go to urgent care or the ER.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2017

And for the record... stop blaming people in need of health care for costs associated with their need. Start blaming hospitals and insurance companies for gouging the 'consumers'. Essential services should not fleece the consumer.

mace1229 · February 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
And for the record... stop blaming people in need of health care for costs associated with their need. Start blaming hospitals and insurance companies for gouging the 'consumers'. Essential services should not fleece the consumer.

I agree, all my previous posts were blaming the insurance, a billion dollar industry. My comments about people in need was just stating taking someone else's system and applying it here would not work.

mace1229 · February 2017

ElderlyWomanOH said:
Illegal immigrants = approximately 3.5% of the US population, down from 4%.

According to my aunt, who gets all of her info from Fox, they are closer to 10-20% of the population and are simultaneously stealing our jobs and living on welfare.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Like I said, you can find quotes that put it at anywhere from 8 - 40 million. For every source that puts it at 10-12 million, you can find one that puts it at 30-40. But none are really accurate, as they are here illegally and there is no paperwork, documentation or anything to track them. 8 million is on the low end often based on data of how many were caught, escaped or imprisoned and 40 is on the high end. Reality is, if someone sneaks into this country, lives without committing a crime and or using fake ID, no one would know they are here.
What none of those numbers include are the children who are citizens, which are estimated to be even higher. That matters because you have parents who are working illegally so they are not participating in a healthcare system, but the children would qualify.
Again, I'm not trying to blame them, I'm just saying the solution isn't as easy as "other countries do it."
We do need a new unique system for our culture.

HughFreakingDillon · February 2017

mace1229 said:

ElderlyWomanOH said:
Illegal immigrants = approximately 3.5% of the US population, down from 4%.

According to my aunt, who gets all of her info from Fox, they are closer to 10-20% of the population and are simultaneously stealing our jobs and living on welfare.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Like I said, you can find quotes that put it at anywhere from 8 - 40 million. For every source that puts it at 10-12 million, you can find one that puts it at 30-40. But none are really accurate, as they are here illegally and there is no paperwork, documentation or anything to track them. 8 million is on the low end often based on data of how many were caught, escaped or imprisoned and 40 is on the high end. Reality is, if someone sneaks into this country, lives without committing a crime and or using fake ID, no one would know they are here.
What none of those numbers include are the children who are citizens, which are estimated to be even higher. That matters because you have parents who are working illegally so they are not participating in a healthcare system, but the children would qualify.
Again, I'm not trying to blame them, I'm just saying the solution isn't as easy as "other countries do it."
We do need a new unique system for our culture.

so would you include coverage for illegals, or do you think it should be denied to them? I don't know what I'd answer, to be honest.

PP193448 · February 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
And for the record... stop blaming people in need of health care for costs associated with their need. Start blaming hospitals and insurance companies for gouging the 'consumers'. Essential services should not fleece the consumer.

There is some blame to the consumer who abuses the product. Most of blame is to hospitals and insurance companies. The only thing that should be free and isn't is water. Funny how you absolutely need water to survive, yet you pay for it and it is not free to your home. Otherwise we should have free water, free septic to remove unhealthy waste and free power to run our needed home electricity like heating/cooling, refrigerator, etc. The idea of free healthcare does not exist. Someone has to pay for it. There should be some responsibility by the consumer, especially for healthcare that is not life threatening and emergency.

HughFreakingDillon · February 2017

PP193448 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
And for the record... stop blaming people in need of health care for costs associated with their need. Start blaming hospitals and insurance companies for gouging the 'consumers'. Essential services should not fleece the consumer.
There is some blame to the consumer who abuses the product. Most of blame is to hospitals and insurance companies. The only thing that should be free and isn't is water. Funny how you absolutely need water to survive, yet you pay for it and it is not free to your home. Otherwise we should have free water, free septic to remove unhealthy waste and free power to run our needed home electricity like heating/cooling, refrigerator, etc. The idea of free healthcare does not exist. Someone has to pay for it. There should be some responsibility by the consumer, especially for healthcare that is not life threatening and emergency.

water to your home (for washing and laundry, etc) shouldn't be free. if it was, people would take 30 minute showers without giving a fuck. water to drink should be. and honestly, it is, if you are willing to go looking for it. plus, it falls from the fucking sky. you can't get much freer than that. I have about 3 tonnes of it in my front yard right now.

why should get free power and not free healthcare? power to your home is worthless if you are dead.

mace1229 · February 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

PP193448 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
And for the record... stop blaming people in need of health care for costs associated with their need. Start blaming hospitals and insurance companies for gouging the 'consumers'. Essential services should not fleece the consumer.
There is some blame to the consumer who abuses the product. Most of blame is to hospitals and insurance companies. The only thing that should be free and isn't is water. Funny how you absolutely need water to survive, yet you pay for it and it is not free to your home. Otherwise we should have free water, free septic to remove unhealthy waste and free power to run our needed home electricity like heating/cooling, refrigerator, etc. The idea of free healthcare does not exist. Someone has to pay for it. There should be some responsibility by the consumer, especially for healthcare that is not life threatening and emergency.
water to your home (for washing and laundry, etc) shouldn't be free. if it was, people would take 30 minute showers without giving a fuck. water to drink should be. and honestly, it is, if you are willing to go looking for it. plus, it falls from the fucking sky. you can't get much freer than that. I have about 3 tonnes of it in my front yard right now.

why should get free power and not free healthcare? power to your home is worthless if you are dead.

I like that analogy, completely free healthcare I can see some abuse without strict regulations.
But you get free power?!

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2017

There is abuse to health care in Canada. And more people access the system than they might necessarily need to do. Many people do not take care of their personal health and unnecessarily need medical attention as well.

It's frustrating, but what are you going to do? People's health is paramount.

Obamacare is a mess

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