Russia's Influence On The American Election

BS44325

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

josevolution said:

Really still talking about HC forget her just keep your eye on Bafoon and his Russian connections .

HRC supporters will blame everyone they can but HRC herself and her shitty campaign.

There is a lot to learn here.

Is there a single person on these boards who lays absolutely no responsibility on her campaign or who suggests her campaign was great?
Just because she didn't run a great campaign, it doesn't mean she would have lost if it weren't for the email hack and the coverage it got, along with Comey's letter. The election was very close, and it is more than reasonable to assume that that small margin would have been made up for without the emails and the Comey letters, which 100% dominated the news in the months and weeks and days leading up to the election.
BTW, you are at least just as guilty of what you are accusing others of. You are absolutely refusing to acknowledge that these factors may have been the difference between winning and losing. You are insisting that it was the Clinton campaign and nothing more than that.

She was going to lose no matter what.

dignin

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

For sure.

I must say Jimmy, you have been very much on point...about all of this post election business. Good stuff.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

josevolution said:

Really still talking about HC forget her just keep your eye on Bafoon and his Russian connections .

HRC supporters will blame everyone they can but HRC herself and her shitty campaign.

There is a lot to learn here.

You are insisting that it was the Clinton campaign and nothing more than that.

Yes, they were that bad.
A sexual predator they could not beat.

Uuuhhhh.... very likely because of the emails and Comey, along with the Trump fear mongering and lying. Again, I know it wasn't a good campaign, but FYI, them losing isn't proof that they lost just because their campaign wasn't great. And the fact that a "bad campaign" could make people vote for a sexual predator isn't really a statement about the Clinton campaign as much as it is a statement about the people who were willing to vote for a sexual predator.
I think it's pretty disturbing how some are blaming a Trump win on Clinton and Clinton alone.... it ignores all the very serious and real issues that are raised by the fact that so many were willing to vote for Trump. This seems like more denial to me.

JimmyV

dignin said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

For sure.

I must say Jimmy, you have been very much on point...about all of this post election business. Good stuff.

Thanks, man. Anger must agree with me.

In my wildest dreams I never seriously thought America would elect Donald Trump. Yet here we are.

Halifax2TheMax

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie lost, lost, lost.

BS44325

Halifax2TheMax said:

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie lost, lost, lost.

And apparently because of that an insider leaked DNC info to wikileaks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

A full, full, full investigation might be required.

BS44325

And it looks like the intelligence apparatus doesn't want to even participate in an investigation

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/14/intel-panel-nixes-briefing-on-alleged-russian-interference-in-us-election-after-resistance.html

Something here just isn't right. If they have damning info then why not appear before the committee?

what dreams

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer, and it worked. Now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened. I'm pretty sure we figured out in 2000 how it happened. And it fucking happened again, even though Bernie Sanders himself warned his bros that we can't let it.

BS44325

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer . . . And they won and now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened.

Don't forget that there was no platform either. That's probably the most important thing for democrats to figure out going forward.

Halifax2TheMax

BS44325 said:

And it looks like the intelligence apparatus doesn't want to even participate in an investigation

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/14/intel-panel-nixes-briefing-on-alleged-russian-interference-in-us-election-after-resistance.html

Something here just isn't right. If they have damning info then why not appear before the committee?

That's why we need an independent prosecutor to look into this. Maybe US intelligence agencies have been compromised by Russia,Russia,Russia!!! Maybe they, US intel, stuck it to Hillary???

CM189191

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie lost, lost, lost.

And apparently because of that an insider leaked DNC info to wikileaks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

A full, full, full investigation might be required.

into wikileaks? agreed

PJPOWER

BS44325 said:

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer . . . And they won and now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened.

Don't forget that there was no platform either. That's probably the most important thing for democrats to figure out going forward.

I totally agree with this statement. And they were cocky, smug acting. Hillary's "shimmying" when she should have been acting like she was in a job interview...voters all had different opinions because of the unprofessionallism. I'm definitely not saying that Trrump was anywhere near professional acting, lol! But, he definitely was not smug. Both of them have their own shitty personalities and that's what the election turned into...one giant personality contest similar to the format of his beauty pageants. Interesting times indeed.

JimmyV

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer, and it worked. Now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened. I'm pretty sure we figured out in 2000 how it happened. And it fucking happened again, even though Bernie Sanders himself warned his bros that we can't let it.

I'm wide awake, thanks.

I assume by referencing 2000 you are pointing the finger of blame at third party voters as well as Bernie people? That is a total copout. Many of the reasons she lost were known before she lost, that's true. Not all, but many. You know what else is true? Many of the reasons she lost were known before she was even nominated. Yet, millions of Democrats voted for her anyway. Third party voters need to own their votes, Trump voters need to own their votes, and Democratic primary voters need to own theirs.

I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Hillary Clinton fan. I don't feel much pity for her and I feel even less for her political machine. They didn't lose this race because of the Russians. They lost this race because the nominee and campaign were both fatally flawed. They are not victims and they absolutely deserve to be criticized for their performance. If Democrats don't want to analyze that performance and learn from it then shame on them when it happens again.

Only the Democrats had the ability to stop Donald Trump. They didn't. Hillary Clinton will be just fine going forward. Many other people in this country won't be so lucky.

All of this is to say, again, that there are many reasons why Hillary Clinton is not the President-elect tonight. Don't be so quick to single out certain groups for sole blame. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Free

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

Absolutely.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
And this is where the Trump supporters stop feeding you guys.
We can only say so much until you figure it out by your lonesome.

Free

BS44325 said:

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer . . . And they won and now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened.

Don't forget that there was no platform either. That's probably the most important thing for democrats to figure out going forward.

If the Dem party doesn't get their heads out of their asses and learn from their major mistakes this election and don't overhaul their party, they're screwed.

Free

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer, and it worked. Now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened. I'm pretty sure we figured out in 2000 how it happened. And it fucking happened again, even though Bernie Sanders himself warned his bros that we can't let it.

Dems don't -and won't - learn a thing from losing by never admitting you are the big part of why HRC lost. How many people does it take to say it til Dems actually hear it? And then work towards overhauling and making the damaged party better?

Free

JimmyV said:

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer, and it worked. Now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened. I'm pretty sure we figured out in 2000 how it happened. And it fucking happened again, even though Bernie Sanders himself warned his bros that we can't let it.

I'm wide awake, thanks.

I assume by referencing 2000 you are pointing the finger of blame at third party voters as well as Bernie people? That is a total copout. Many of the reasons she lost were known before she lost, that's true. Not all, but many. You know what else is true? Many of the reasons she lost were known before she was even nominated. Yet, millions of Democrats voted for her anyway. Third party voters need to own their votes, Trump voters need to own their votes, and Democratic primary voters need to own theirs.

I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Hillary Clinton fan. I don't feel much pity for her and I feel even less for her political machine. They didn't lose this race because of the Russians. They lost this race because the nominee and campaign were both fatally flawed. They are not victims and they absolutely deserve to be criticized for their performance. If Democrats don't want to analyze that performance and learn from it then shame on them when it happens again.

Only the Democrats had the ability to stop Donald Trump. They didn't. Hillary Clinton will be just fine going forward. Many other people in this country won't be so lucky.

All of this is to say, again, that there are many reasons why Hillary Clinton is not the President-elect tonight. Don't be so quick to single out certain groups for sole blame. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Didn't see this - completely agree.

CM189191

Free said:

what dreams said:

JimmyV said:

I do give a shit about how and why she lost because it is a mistake we can't afford to repeat. There are lessons to be learned while we push back against Trump. We can either learn them or ignore them.

ALL of the reasons she lost were well known BEFORE she lost. We don't need to spend more weeks, months, and years reviewing why people didn't like Hillary Clinton enough to vote for her. She's been dealt this crap her entire political life, people criticizing and sabotaging her work and character because of whatever perceived threat she poses. This time it just happened to be the Russians. So the fuck what.

I get it that you're angry. I'm angry. But I'm not going to continue to tear down the candidate and party who lost. That's exactly how she lost -- internal strife and petty picking apart, all instigated by the assholes who are about to rob America blind of every last resource we've got left. Their strategy was divide and conquer, and it worked. Now they are about to take it all while liberals sit around and wonder how it happened. Wake up. It's obvious how it happened. I'm pretty sure we figured out in 2000 how it happened. And it fucking happened again, even though Bernie Sanders himself warned his bros that we can't let it.

Dems don't -and won't - learn a thing from losing by never admitting you are the big part of why HRC lost. How many people does it take to say it til Dems actually hear it? And then work towards overhauling and making the damaged party better?

What do you propose? Adopt a different platform? We're all ears.

Free

Get rid of people like Pelosi who say there's nothing wrong w/ the party and no reason to seek real change within the party (corporate, bank and celeb loving, ego driven apeasal to the upper middle class and 1% For starters) and others too blind to see they've failed real people of this country and seek real direction.

The Dem party was never with mid-America, Trump spoke to the majority. It was the snobby, smug attitude of HRC and the entire party that contributed to all of us losing. Now it's the up to the Dem party to pick up the pieces and figure out now where to go. Because going in the same direction brings us nowhere.

Start by listening to people and better ideas rather than continue with the victim mentality and hurt ego. This entire Russia focus is an extension of that. I have no sympathy.