Vigilante Justice ?

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

oftenreading

Yes, there are legal decision and sentences that certainly seem unjust on the face of it, though I think we need to keep in mind that we never even learn all the facts presented in court, let alone what the truth is. And some judges and juries flat out make mistakes, because they're human and are swayed by a whole range of factors other than logic. But guess what? Vigilantes are swayed by the same factors, but in a much less controlled way with no oversight.

In the original case the OP presented - yes, it was self defense at the end, but only because the guy did a whole series of things he shouldn't have that took him there, the worst of which was deciding to open the door, when he was already safe in his house, and try to walk the guy at gunpoint to a neighbour's place with the hope that he could flag someone down so police would come. A claim of self defense works better if you don't create the situation that leads to you needing to use lethal force to defend yourself.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-john-mckeon-montana-no-prison-incest-rape-conviction-under-fire/

case in point.

Godfather.

Johnboy looks like a pedo himself. No wonder he exercised leniency. There can really be no other reason (I know... I know... Johnboy expressed the church and his mom were behind him).

What a goof.

* And this is a case where vigilante justice would be okay in my mind... except the father is the rapist... he's supposed to be the protector.

rgambs

If you open the door to this behavior, where do you close it?

Was Treyvon Martin indulging in vigilante justice when he attacked a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood, or was he defending himself against a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood?
Either way, we all know why some people are glad Zimmerman walked, (even though they would have defended themselves exactly as Martin did) and it strikes at the heart of why vigilante justice is an oxymoron. Justice must be impartial.
There are far too many people still in America and the world who are quick to assume the guilt of those who inhabit darker shades of skin than their own. If Joe Sixpack is given free reign, lynch mobs will be back in a heartbeat.
Self-defense/crime of passion is a little different, but the guy who beat the abuser to death still has to be punished by a just society. Obviously he shouldn't be locked away forever, but there have to be consequences for taking the law into your own hands.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

If you open the door to this behavior, where do you close it?

Was Treyvon Martin indulging in vigilante justice when he attacked a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood, or was he defending himself against a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood?
Either way, we all know why some people are glad Zimmerman walked, (even though they would have defended themselves exactly as Martin did) and it strikes at the heart of why vigilante justice is an oxymoron. Justice must be impartial.
There are far too many people still in America and the world who are quick to assume the guilt of those who inhabit darker shades of skin than their own. If Joe Sixpack is given free reign, lynch mobs will be back in a heartbeat.
Self-defense/crime of passion is a little different, but the guy who beat the abuser to death still has to be punished by a just society. Obviously he shouldn't be locked away forever, but there have to be consequences for taking the law into your own hands.

He never got punished (charged) as it was viewed as self defence (by extension- father defending daughter).

The beating may have been taken too far, but really... how can we suggest such? The rapist pedophile had committed an unspeakable offence and the father made sure he wasn't in any condition to do any more harm. The dad was in no state of mind to consider the needs of the rapist as he was 'forced' to deal with the situation. As a result... he died... but the defence was effective.

No pity for the loser. None.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

the laws of Florida set him free remember ? he was taking an ass whooopin and shot the kid right ? that's as close to "stand your ground" as it gets, but there's my whole point, many folks like you believe he should have been charged right ? but you're upset that he didn't ? there are a lot of people who deal with similar situations all the time and the killer walks free on a technicality or a "plea deal"...or this one is kind of special, the cops raid a drug house the dealer is told "if you tell us who your supplier is it will be like we never came to your house" (I dislike rats) but the whole system is twisted and manipulated to favor the criminals it seems like and all I'm saying is people get pissed and act out and I never said it was right or wrong.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Kat said:

Godfather, I think we have to let our justice system work. It has problems but if we don't all support the rule of law, we undermine our own system. I don't think it's a bad system but as with anything, there's room for improvement. I don't think it's a good idea to support vigilante justice.

I agree, but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore.

Godfather.

so you agree with chadwick putting down a pedophile without due process, and then agree with kat about due process.

as I've stated "but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore"
and why do you think that is ?....any idea's ?

Godfather.

Well I should think any sane person would still trust even a flawed system more than some random person who can't contain their rage.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Kat said:

Godfather, I think we have to let our justice system work. It has problems but if we don't all support the rule of law, we undermine our own system. I don't think it's a bad system but as with anything, there's room for improvement. I don't think it's a good idea to support vigilante justice.

I agree, but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore.

Godfather.

so you agree with chadwick putting down a pedophile without due process, and then agree with kat about due process.

as I've stated "but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore"
and why do you think that is ?....any idea's ?

Godfather.

Well I should think any sane person would still trust even a flawed system more than some random person who can't contain their rage.

yeah tell that to the bikers in WACO .....

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Kat said:

Godfather, I think we have to let our justice system work. It has problems but if we don't all support the rule of law, we undermine our own system. I don't think it's a bad system but as with anything, there's room for improvement. I don't think it's a good idea to support vigilante justice.

I agree, but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore.

Godfather.

so you agree with chadwick putting down a pedophile without due process, and then agree with kat about due process.

as I've stated "but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore"
and why do you think that is ?....any idea's ?

Godfather.

Well I should think any sane person would still trust even a flawed system more than some random person who can't contain their rage.

yeah tell that to the bikers in WACO .....

Godfather.

I doubt those bikers in Waco would have trusted some random, uncontrollably rage-filled vigilante either.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Kat said:

Godfather, I think we have to let our justice system work. It has problems but if we don't all support the rule of law, we undermine our own system. I don't think it's a bad system but as with anything, there's room for improvement. I don't think it's a good idea to support vigilante justice.

I agree, but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore.

Godfather.

so you agree with chadwick putting down a pedophile without due process, and then agree with kat about due process.

as I've stated "but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore"
and why do you think that is ?....any idea's ?

Godfather.

Well I should think any sane person would still trust even a flawed system more than some random person who can't contain their rage.

yeah tell that to the bikers in WACO .....

Godfather.

I doubt those bikers in Waco would have trusted some random, uncontrollably rage-filled vigilante either.

they trust nobody but they could have handled a rage-filled vigilante much easier than a bunch of cops who used them for target practice.
I'm not trying to defend vigilante's just pointing out the system is seriously flawed and there are some folks who've had enough.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Kat said:

Godfather, I think we have to let our justice system work. It has problems but if we don't all support the rule of law, we undermine our own system. I don't think it's a bad system but as with anything, there's room for improvement. I don't think it's a good idea to support vigilante justice.

I agree, but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore.

Godfather.

so you agree with chadwick putting down a pedophile without due process, and then agree with kat about due process.

as I've stated "but unfortunately there are people who are not willing to trust the system anymore"
and why do you think that is ?....any idea's ?

Godfather.

Well I should think any sane person would still trust even a flawed system more than some random person who can't contain their rage.

yeah tell that to the bikers in WACO .....

Godfather.

I doubt those bikers in Waco would have trusted some random, uncontrollably rage-filled vigilante either.

they trust nobody but they could have handled a rage-filled vigilante much easier than a bunch of cops who used them for target practice.
I'm not trying to defend vigilante's just pointing out the system is seriously flawed and there are some folks who've had enough.

Godfather.

Okay buddy. Talk about a red-herring kind of argument.
Yes, we all know that the system is flawed. I think most people also know, however, that it is much less flawed than vigilantism. Whether or not people have had enough is neither here nor there, unless their solution to "having enough" is vigilantism.... let's hope not, because few things could suppress people's rights faster than that.

lukin2006

Of course the system is flawed, it's a system run by people, people are flawed. The biggest flaw in the system in the US is the private prisons. Who the hell ever thought it'd be a good idea to privatize prisons...enough said,

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

If you open the door to this behavior, where do you close it?

Was Treyvon Martin indulging in vigilante justice when he attacked a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood, or was he defending himself against a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood?
Either way, we all know why some people are glad Zimmerman walked, (even though they would have defended themselves exactly as Martin did) and it strikes at the heart of why vigilante justice is an oxymoron. Justice must be impartial.
There are far too many people still in America and the world who are quick to assume the guilt of those who inhabit darker shades of skin than their own. If Joe Sixpack is given free reign, lynch mobs will be back in a heartbeat.
Self-defense/crime of passion is a little different, but the guy who beat the abuser to death still has to be punished by a just society. Obviously he shouldn't be locked away forever, but there have to be consequences for taking the law into your own hands.

He never got punished (charged) as it was viewed as self defence (by extension- father defending daughter).

The beating may have been taken too far, but really... how can we suggest such? The rapist pedophile had committed an unspeakable offence and the father made sure he wasn't in any condition to do any more harm. The dad was in no state of mind to consider the needs of the rapist as he was 'forced' to deal with the situation. As a result... he died... but the defence was effective.

No pity for the loser. None.

I have no pity for the dead guy either.
I guess it depends on the beating dispensed, sometimes it takes relatively little to beat someone to death, but other times it takes a ridiculous amount of beating.
If the guy was pounding on the scum's face for a half hour, he should spend a few weeks in the clink thinking about what is an acceptable limit to self-defense and self-control.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

Of course the system is flawed, it's a system run by people, people are flawed. The biggest flaw in the system in the US is the private prisons. Who the hell ever thought it'd be a good idea to privatize prisons...enough said,

I have no idea. It seems like an illegal idea, doesn't it? I also can't believe it was ever allowed to happen (likewise with the health insurance companies btw - whoever decided that could be turned into a profit business must have been either evil or crazy).

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

the laws of Florida set him free remember ? he was taking an ass whooopin and shot the kid right ? that's as close to "stand your ground" as it gets, but there's my whole point, many folks like you believe he should have been charged right ? but you're upset that he didn't ? there are a lot of people who deal with similar situations all the time and the killer walks free on a technicality or a "plea deal"...or this one is kind of special, the cops raid a drug house the dealer is told "if you tell us who your supplier is it will be like we never came to your house" (I dislike rats) but the whole system is twisted and manipulated to favor the criminals it seems like and all I'm saying is people get pissed and act out and I never said it was right or wrong.

Godfather.

Yeah, we know how you feel about brown folk and their believability vs a white guy "protecting his neighbourhood". Such a fucking joke.

You dislike rats? You'd rather your jails filled with petty criminals while their bosses enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice? That's intelligent.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

If you open the door to this behavior, where do you close it?

Was Treyvon Martin indulging in vigilante justice when he attacked a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood, or was he defending himself against a grown man who was stalking him around his own neighborhood?
Either way, we all know why some people are glad Zimmerman walked, (even though they would have defended themselves exactly as Martin did) and it strikes at the heart of why vigilante justice is an oxymoron. Justice must be impartial.
There are far too many people still in America and the world who are quick to assume the guilt of those who inhabit darker shades of skin than their own. If Joe Sixpack is given free reign, lynch mobs will be back in a heartbeat.
Self-defense/crime of passion is a little different, but the guy who beat the abuser to death still has to be punished by a just society. Obviously he shouldn't be locked away forever, but there have to be consequences for taking the law into your own hands.

He never got punished (charged) as it was viewed as self defence (by extension- father defending daughter).

The beating may have been taken too far, but really... how can we suggest such? The rapist pedophile had committed an unspeakable offence and the father made sure he wasn't in any condition to do any more harm. The dad was in no state of mind to consider the needs of the rapist as he was 'forced' to deal with the situation. As a result... he died... but the defence was effective.

No pity for the loser. None.

I have no pity for the dead guy either.
I guess it depends on the beating dispensed, sometimes it takes relatively little to beat someone to death, but other times it takes a ridiculous amount of beating.
If the guy was pounding on the scum's face for a half hour, he should spend a few weeks in the clink thinking about what is an acceptable limit to self-defense and self-control.

Agreed. If the guy's face is mush... it might be time to stop... he's not getting up.

I think this case was a case of a ham-handed bruiser lumping out some pencil necked pedo in quick fashion.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

Of course the system is flawed, it's a system run by people, people are flawed. The biggest flaw in the system in the US is the private prisons. Who the hell ever thought it'd be a good idea to privatize prisons...enough said,

I have no idea. It seems like an illegal idea, doesn't it? I also can't believe it was ever allowed to happen (likewise with the health insurance companies btw - whoever decided that could be turned into a profit business must have been either evil or crazy).

Or evil greedy sob might fit...

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

the laws of Florida set him free remember ? he was taking an ass whooopin and shot the kid right ? that's as close to "stand your ground" as it gets, but there's my whole point, many folks like you believe he should have been charged right ? but you're upset that he didn't ? there are a lot of people who deal with similar situations all the time and the killer walks free on a technicality or a "plea deal"...or this one is kind of special, the cops raid a drug house the dealer is told "if you tell us who your supplier is it will be like we never came to your house" (I dislike rats) but the whole system is twisted and manipulated to favor the criminals it seems like and all I'm saying is people get pissed and act out and I never said it was right or wrong.

Godfather.

Yeah, we know how you feel about brown folk and their believability vs a white guy "protecting his neighbourhood". Such a fucking joke.

You dislike rats? You'd rather your jails filled with petty criminals while their bosses enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice? That's intelligent.

your reply is less than....you seem to have the preconceived notion that I dislike brown people and you bring it up as often as you can
you also seem to have no clue how it works on the streets and yet you fancy yourself the know it all of good and evil men, I'm willing to bet you are aware of very little outside your self secured world other than your internet knowledge of it.
you also have this idea that because I support the idea of coming to this country legally and banning those that are a proven threat that I am a racist......well telling you that you are wrong is just wasted time because you don't know any better.
and "rats" will say anything to save their own ass's which includes lies but I'm sure you'd take the word of a rat as long as he/she said what you wanted to hear.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

the laws of Florida set him free remember ? he was taking an ass whooopin and shot the kid right ? that's as close to "stand your ground" as it gets, but there's my whole point, many folks like you believe he should have been charged right ? but you're upset that he didn't ? there are a lot of people who deal with similar situations all the time and the killer walks free on a technicality or a "plea deal"...or this one is kind of special, the cops raid a drug house the dealer is told "if you tell us who your supplier is it will be like we never came to your house" (I dislike rats) but the whole system is twisted and manipulated to favor the criminals it seems like and all I'm saying is people get pissed and act out and I never said it was right or wrong.

Godfather.

Yeah, we know how you feel about brown folk and their believability vs a white guy "protecting his neighbourhood". Such a fucking joke.

You dislike rats? You'd rather your jails filled with petty criminals while their bosses enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice? That's intelligent.

your reply is less than....you seem to have the preconceived notion that I dislike brown people and you bring it up as often as you can
you also seem to have no clue how it works on the streets and yet you fancy yourself the know it all of good and evil men, I'm willing to bet you are aware of very little outside your self secured world other than your internet knowledge of it.
you also have this idea that because I support the idea of coming to this country legally and banning those that are a proven threat that I am a racist......well telling you that you are wrong is just wasted time because you don't know any better.
and "rats" will say anything to save their own ass's which includes lies but I'm sure you'd take the word of a rat as long as he/she said what you wanted to hear.

Godfather.

I am far from the only one who knows of, and calls you out on, your prejudices. Own them at least.

Yeah, because the justice system puts away law abiding citizens based on nothing but the word of a rat. Aren't you pro-water boarding? See, your opinions change depending completely, and in many cases, completely contradict each other, depending on who you deem to the "good" guy and the "bad" guy. Its laughable.

And I'm the one with no clue. Riiiiiight.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it's important to point out that Godfather was a rabid defender of Zimmerman.

your keen sense of reflection is stupendous..............how did you fell I asked...hell yes I knew he would walk and glad he did(even if he is a dumb-ass)

Godfather.

Glad he did????

the laws of Florida set him free remember ? he was taking an ass whooopin and shot the kid right ? that's as close to "stand your ground" as it gets, but there's my whole point, many folks like you believe he should have been charged right ? but you're upset that he didn't ? there are a lot of people who deal with similar situations all the time and the killer walks free on a technicality or a "plea deal"...or this one is kind of special, the cops raid a drug house the dealer is told "if you tell us who your supplier is it will be like we never came to your house" (I dislike rats) but the whole system is twisted and manipulated to favor the criminals it seems like and all I'm saying is people get pissed and act out and I never said it was right or wrong.

Godfather.

Yeah, we know how you feel about brown folk and their believability vs a white guy "protecting his neighbourhood". Such a fucking joke.

You dislike rats? You'd rather your jails filled with petty criminals while their bosses enjoy the fruits of their sacrifice? That's intelligent.

your reply is less than....you seem to have the preconceived notion that I dislike brown people and you bring it up as often as you can
you also seem to have no clue how it works on the streets and yet you fancy yourself the know it all of good and evil men, I'm willing to bet you are aware of very little outside your self secured world other than your internet knowledge of it.
you also have this idea that because I support the idea of coming to this country legally and banning those that are a proven threat that I am a racist......well telling you that you are wrong is just wasted time because you don't know any better.
and "rats" will say anything to save their own ass's which includes lies but I'm sure you'd take the word of a rat as long as he/she said what you wanted to hear.

Godfather.

I am far from the only one who knows of, and calls you out on, your prejudices. Own them at least.

Yeah, because the justice system puts away law abiding citizens based on nothing but the word of a rat. Aren't you pro-water boarding? See, your opinions change depending completely, and in many cases, completely contradict each other, depending on who you deem to the "good" guy and the "bad" guy. Its laughable.

And I'm the one with no clue. Riiiiiight.

sure thing amigo, roll with it.

Godfather.