THE DEBATES 2016

oftenreading

I've got to admit I didn't watch that part of the debate so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the idea (floated by some) that a fetus would be aborted a day or two before the due date is medically ridiculous and deliberately inflammatory (big surprise there!). If a woman's life was in danger at that point from something like pre-eclampsia, they would simply deliver the baby by either induction or C-section.

oftenreading

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

I've got to admit I didn't watch that part of the debate so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the idea (floated by some) that a fetus would be aborted a day or two before the due date is medically ridiculous and deliberately inflammatory (big surprise there!). If a woman's life was in danger at that point from something like pre-eclampsia, they would simply deliver the baby by either induction or C-section.

Those were pretty much my thoughts. But Clinton has openly said she supports late term abortion, which usually means after that 24 week period. In the debate she didn't deny that she was for abortions at 38 or 39 weeks, her reply was something like "sometimes you get information that influences your decision." Fine, but I still think that is a week argument, since something like less than 1% of abortions are for rape incest and medical reasons. IF that isn't what she meant she was very unclear about it, and even seem to gives a reason why you would abort at 39 weeks, so it was pretty clear Trump was right about that, weather you agree with his visual illustration or not.
Both my children were born barely at 37 weeks, I know several people who had babies at 33 or 34 weeks and were perfectly fine. I am completely against late term abortion for the reasons you said, just deliver the baby, and it is a baby. A few hours can mean the difference between being a baby and having the right to live or not? I can't agree with that.

mrussel1

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

I've got to admit I didn't watch that part of the debate so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the idea (floated by some) that a fetus would be aborted a day or two before the due date is medically ridiculous and deliberately inflammatory (big surprise there!). If a woman's life was in danger at that point from something like pre-eclampsia, they would simply deliver the baby by either induction or C-section.

Those were pretty much my thoughts. But Clinton has openly said she supports late term abortion, which usually means after that 24 week period. In the debate she didn't deny that she was for abortions at 38 or 39 weeks, her reply was something like "sometimes you get information that influences your decision." Fine, but I still think that is a week argument, since something like less than 1% of abortions are for rape incest and medical reasons. IF that isn't what she meant she was very unclear about it, and even seem to gives a reason why you would abort at 39 weeks, so it was pretty clear Trump was right about that, weather you agree with his visual illustration or not.
Both my children were born barely at 37 weeks, I know several people who had babies at 33 or 34 weeks and were perfectly fine. I am completely against late term abortion for the reasons you said, just deliver the baby, and it is a baby. A few hours can mean the difference between being a baby and having the right to live or not? I can't agree with that.

"Late term abortion" such as you describe, if after when a fetus would otherwise be viable, would generally be because the fetus had abnormalities incompatible with life. A heartwrenching position to be in but it's not going to result in a live, healthy baby no matter what you do.

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

See above.

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

How do you know she clearly wasn't referring to 24 weeks or earlier?

A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late".[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.[8]
The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is often related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions. However, viability varies greatly among pregnancies. Many pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a "grey area".[8]

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

How do you know she clearly wasn't referring to 24 weeks or earlier?

A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late".[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.[8]
The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is often related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions. However, viability varies greatly among pregnancies. Many pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a "grey area".[8]

Because didn't she say something along the lines of sometimes new information is revealed during the last few weeks of pregnancy? I don't have a transcript, but I remember her saying something very similar to that during that conversation, which would mean much later than week 24 if you're talking about the last weeks of a pregnancy.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

How do you know she clearly wasn't referring to 24 weeks or earlier?

A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late".[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.[8]
The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is often related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions. However, viability varies greatly among pregnancies. Many pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a "grey area".[8]

Because didn't she say something along the lines of sometimes new information is revealed during the last few weeks of pregnancy? I don't have a transcript, but I remember her saying something very similar to that during that conversation, which would mean much later than week 24 if you're talking about the last weeks of a pregnancy.

So, that "new information" would be that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or a fatal medical condition.

mrussel1

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

How do you know she clearly wasn't referring to 24 weeks or earlier?

A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late".[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.[8]
The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is often related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions. However, viability varies greatly among pregnancies. Many pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a "grey area".[8]

Because didn't she say something along the lines of sometimes new information is revealed during the last few weeks of pregnancy? I don't have a transcript, but I remember her saying something very similar to that during that conversation, which would mean much later than week 24 if you're talking about the last weeks of a pregnancy.

So, that "new information" would be that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or a fatal medical condition.

Or a threat to the mother's life when the fetus isn't viable.

pjalive21

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

wow....you really are in a bubble.

He got destroyed by Clinton and Wallace.

As soon as the debate ends Clinton walks out and shakes Wallace's hand, then goes into the crowd and is surrounded by family and friends.

Trump stands behind his lectern hiding from Clinton then ventures out to Wallace...is joined onstage by family then books his ass out of there.

That tells you who won the debate.

lets talk about wikileaks...Clinton: completely changes the subject then accuses Trump of colluding with Putin..haha ok

i mean i could go on but dont have the energy to do so

she sounded like a robot and stayed on her talking points and she came off fake...Trump by no means is eloquent or controlled but i would take that "realness" any day over a manufactured puppet

And when Trump was asked about his sexual assault accusations he talked about ISIS...

Talking points as in her policies? I think she did do a pretty good job with that?

im not here to defend Trump (for some reason i have been lately) and yes you have a point there as well

her policies are scary...i still cant get over the abortion answer and im pro choice with limitations, she has no limitations and Trump called her out on it and she didn't defend it.......the clinton foundation with Haiti and Colombia not to mention taking money from Qatar yet defending womens rights, saying the debt wont go up but offering free college? don't believe any politician that offers freebies, yet says the debt wont go up...raising taxes on those making of 250,000, here we go pick on the rich, which in return those that make less will pay the price for that when good and services go up...thats just what came off the top of my head

Not picking on the rich....that's where the money is.

You need to go over her abortion stance. That crap Trump was talking about (aborting with 1,2,3,4 days left) was just stupid

What got me is she didn't defend it and thats where the probl

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

he lost. I can't see anyone disputing that. he did better than before. I thought in the first 30 minutes he did very well. he was composed, patient, spoke somewhat coherently. then he went off the rails. he just couldn't handle HC not taking his bait. he gets enraged when someone won't react like he wants them to. that much is obvious. then he starts stomping around like a baby.

is she a liar? probably. BUT SHE WON'T THROW THE COUNTRY INTO CHAOS LIKE HE MOST CERTAINLY WILL. END OF STORY.

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

I don't care how Trump worded what he said its that she didn't deny it when he called her out on it, THAT right there is beyond telling

so you're telling me that if there is a choice between bringing a new life into this world at full term and the life of the mother you are valuing the life of the mother more than the child? Me personally I don't have a say in that...I would hate to be in that spot, but yes it would be up to who was in charge of that persons medical decision to make that decision

but make no mistake thats not the only instance to where that could be used, its a slippery slope and unless specified that it need to be a medical necessity then it opens pandoras box

Cliffy6745

I am pretty sure that is precisely her position, if I am reading your second paragraph correctly.

mrussel1

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

wow....you really are in a bubble.

He got destroyed by Clinton and Wallace.

As soon as the debate ends Clinton walks out and shakes Wallace's hand, then goes into the crowd and is surrounded by family and friends.

Trump stands behind his lectern hiding from Clinton then ventures out to Wallace...is joined onstage by family then books his ass out of there.

That tells you who won the debate.

lets talk about wikileaks...Clinton: completely changes the subject then accuses Trump of colluding with Putin..haha ok

i mean i could go on but dont have the energy to do so

she sounded like a robot and stayed on her talking points and she came off fake...Trump by no means is eloquent or controlled but i would take that "realness" any day over a manufactured puppet

And when Trump was asked about his sexual assault accusations he talked about ISIS...

Talking points as in her policies? I think she did do a pretty good job with that?

im not here to defend Trump (for some reason i have been lately) and yes you have a point there as well

her policies are scary...i still cant get over the abortion answer and im pro choice with limitations, she has no limitations and Trump called her out on it and she didn't defend it.......the clinton foundation with Haiti and Colombia not to mention taking money from Qatar yet defending womens rights, saying the debt wont go up but offering free college? don't believe any politician that offers freebies, yet says the debt wont go up...raising taxes on those making of 250,000, here we go pick on the rich, which in return those that make less will pay the price for that when good and services go up...thats just what came off the top of my head

Not picking on the rich....that's where the money is.

You need to go over her abortion stance. That crap Trump was talking about (aborting with 1,2,3,4 days left) was just stupid

What got me is she didn't defend it and thats where the probl

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

he lost. I can't see anyone disputing that. he did better than before. I thought in the first 30 minutes he did very well. he was composed, patient, spoke somewhat coherently. then he went off the rails. he just couldn't handle HC not taking his bait. he gets enraged when someone won't react like he wants them to. that much is obvious. then he starts stomping around like a baby.

is she a liar? probably. BUT SHE WON'T THROW THE COUNTRY INTO CHAOS LIKE HE MOST CERTAINLY WILL. END OF STORY.

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

I don't care how Trump worded what he said its that she didn't deny it when he called her out on it, THAT right there is beyond telling

so you're telling me that if there is a choice between bringing a new life into this world at full term and the life of the mother you are valuing the life of the mother more than the child? Me personally I don't have a say in that...I would hate to be in that spot, but yes it would be up to who was in charge of that persons medical decision to make that decision

but make no mistake thats not the only instance to where that could be used, its a slippery slope and unless specified that it need to be a medical necessity then it opens pandoras box

She didn't refute it because then you spend the whole night arguing against Trump's lies. It puts you on defense the whole time and doesn't allow you to make the points you want to make. When he says stuff that is either 1. Obviously false or 2. Not politically damaging, then you don't argue it, you move on. Trump's biggest problem is that he can't let anything go so he's always defending himself. It's a terrible debate strategy.

Cliffy6745

pjalive21 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

wow....you really are in a bubble.

He got destroyed by Clinton and Wallace.

As soon as the debate ends Clinton walks out and shakes Wallace's hand, then goes into the crowd and is surrounded by family and friends.

Trump stands behind his lectern hiding from Clinton then ventures out to Wallace...is joined onstage by family then books his ass out of there.

That tells you who won the debate.

lets talk about wikileaks...Clinton: completely changes the subject then accuses Trump of colluding with Putin..haha ok

i mean i could go on but dont have the energy to do so

she sounded like a robot and stayed on her talking points and she came off fake...Trump by no means is eloquent or controlled but i would take that "realness" any day over a manufactured puppet

And when Trump was asked about his sexual assault accusations he talked about ISIS...

Talking points as in her policies? I think she did do a pretty good job with that?

im not here to defend Trump (for some reason i have been lately) and yes you have a point there as well

her policies are scary...i still cant get over the abortion answer and im pro choice with limitations, she has no limitations and Trump called her out on it and she didn't defend it.......the clinton foundation with Haiti and Colombia not to mention taking money from Qatar yet defending womens rights, saying the debt wont go up but offering free college? don't believe any politician that offers freebies, yet says the debt wont go up...raising taxes on those making of 250,000, here we go pick on the rich, which in return those that make less will pay the price for that when good and services go up...thats just what came off the top of my head

I do not think $250k necessarily makes someone wealthy, I do think they can burden the load a bit more than other folks. I will not have a problem paying a bit extra when my wife and I get to that point.

They both seem to be full of shit on the debt given what Wallace quoted, but she is obviously significantly less so.

mrussel1

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

wow....you really are in a bubble.

He got destroyed by Clinton and Wallace.

As soon as the debate ends Clinton walks out and shakes Wallace's hand, then goes into the crowd and is surrounded by family and friends.

Trump stands behind his lectern hiding from Clinton then ventures out to Wallace...is joined onstage by family then books his ass out of there.

That tells you who won the debate.

lets talk about wikileaks...Clinton: completely changes the subject then accuses Trump of colluding with Putin..haha ok

i mean i could go on but dont have the energy to do so

she sounded like a robot and stayed on her talking points and she came off fake...Trump by no means is eloquent or controlled but i would take that "realness" any day over a manufactured puppet

And when Trump was asked about his sexual assault accusations he talked about ISIS...

Talking points as in her policies? I think she did do a pretty good job with that?

im not here to defend Trump (for some reason i have been lately) and yes you have a point there as well

her policies are scary...i still cant get over the abortion answer and im pro choice with limitations, she has no limitations and Trump called her out on it and she didn't defend it.......the clinton foundation with Haiti and Colombia not to mention taking money from Qatar yet defending womens rights, saying the debt wont go up but offering free college? don't believe any politician that offers freebies, yet says the debt wont go up...raising taxes on those making of 250,000, here we go pick on the rich, which in return those that make less will pay the price for that when good and services go up...thats just what came off the top of my head

I do not think $250k necessarily makes someone wealthy, I do think they can burden the load a bit more than other folks. I will not have a problem paying a bit extra when my wife and I get to that point.

They both seem to be full of shit on the debt given what Wallace quoted, but she is obviously significantly less so.

And remember, it's marginal tax. So that means it will be a step up in taxes but only affect the amount that exceeds 250k. I would be in that tax bracket, but I still support it if it makes SS solvent, reduces the debt, etc. So if you make 260k and the marginal rate goes up by 2% from 250-300k brackets, then your marginal tax increase is $200. That's not a killer.

Gern Blansten

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

I can smell a Godfather cut and paste a mile away!

Yeah no shit. All the words are spelled correctly.

Gern Blansten

oftenreading said:

I've got to admit I didn't watch that part of the debate so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the idea (floated by some) that a fetus would be aborted a day or two before the due date is medically ridiculous and deliberately inflammatory (big surprise there!). If a woman's life was in danger at that point from something like pre-eclampsia, they would simply deliver the baby by either induction or C-section.

Exactly....Trump seemed to be mistaking "birth" for abortion

HughFreakingDillon

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

wow....you really are in a bubble.

He got destroyed by Clinton and Wallace.

As soon as the debate ends Clinton walks out and shakes Wallace's hand, then goes into the crowd and is surrounded by family and friends.

Trump stands behind his lectern hiding from Clinton then ventures out to Wallace...is joined onstage by family then books his ass out of there.

That tells you who won the debate.

lets talk about wikileaks...Clinton: completely changes the subject then accuses Trump of colluding with Putin..haha ok

i mean i could go on but dont have the energy to do so

she sounded like a robot and stayed on her talking points and she came off fake...Trump by no means is eloquent or controlled but i would take that "realness" any day over a manufactured puppet

And when Trump was asked about his sexual assault accusations he talked about ISIS...

Talking points as in her policies? I think she did do a pretty good job with that?

im not here to defend Trump (for some reason i have been lately) and yes you have a point there as well

her policies are scary...i still cant get over the abortion answer and im pro choice with limitations, she has no limitations and Trump called her out on it and she didn't defend it.......the clinton foundation with Haiti and Colombia not to mention taking money from Qatar yet defending womens rights, saying the debt wont go up but offering free college? don't believe any politician that offers freebies, yet says the debt wont go up...raising taxes on those making of 250,000, here we go pick on the rich, which in return those that make less will pay the price for that when good and services go up...thats just what came off the top of my head

Not picking on the rich....that's where the money is.

You need to go over her abortion stance. That crap Trump was talking about (aborting with 1,2,3,4 days left) was just stupid

What got me is she didn't defend it and thats where the probl

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

he lost. I can't see anyone disputing that. he did better than before. I thought in the first 30 minutes he did very well. he was composed, patient, spoke somewhat coherently. then he went off the rails. he just couldn't handle HC not taking his bait. he gets enraged when someone won't react like he wants them to. that much is obvious. then he starts stomping around like a baby.

is she a liar? probably. BUT SHE WON'T THROW THE COUNTRY INTO CHAOS LIKE HE MOST CERTAINLY WILL. END OF STORY.

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjalive21 said:

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

Knowing that she is corrupt. Knowing that she has sold influence and profited from her position. Knowing that she lied to us, the public and Congress. Knowing she did her best to destroy and belittle her husband's sexual harassment victims. These are all proven indisputable facts. You think she is fit for leading our Country? How?

Godfather.

He still lost the debate & election with his debate performances not just last night but combined, he could of won the WH if he was just remotely sane !

If you think he lost the debate last night you're a blinded fool...sorry but i cant put it much nicer

Clinton spewed lie, after lie, and if you defend a person who believes in late term abortions up to the due date then you're a sick individual..period

Clinton Foundations is corrupt, look no further than Colombia, not just Haiti

Im not even a Trump fan but this crap is getting ridiculous with the blind support for this criminal

and the media wants to talk about him not conceding if he loses as the main headline, thank god i no longer work in a worthless career as the media has become

come on. that abortion thing was a fucking joke. "ripping the baby from the womb" was a disgusting way to put it. typical fearful right wing bullshit. she doesn't support hapharzardly choosing to abort a baby that late. we just need to leave the door open to give a mother the option if her life is in danger. you cannot put a definite date on something like that. it's not black and white.

do you support forcing a woman to die so her unborn baby MAY live? to me THAT is sick.

I don't care how Trump worded what he said its that she didn't deny it when he called her out on it, THAT right there is beyond telling

so you're telling me that if there is a choice between bringing a new life into this world at full term and the life of the mother you are valuing the life of the mother more than the child? Me personally I don't have a say in that...I would hate to be in that spot, but yes it would be up to who was in charge of that persons medical decision to make that decision

but make no mistake thats not the only instance to where that could be used, its a slippery slope and unless specified that it need to be a medical necessity then it opens pandoras box

yes, that is her position. she also stated very clearly that, in those rare instances, it would have to be at the recommendation of the medicla professional in charge of her/their care.

I don't value any life over another. But it's the woman's choice for her own health, not the government's. cue the "but what about the baby's choice?" argument. unfortunately it's an impossible situation, and there really is no right answer, except that you have to give the choice to the host. I'm sure many would choose themselves, and many would choose the baby if they knew it would live.

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

The only time we're talking about "abortion" is, by definition, before the fetus is viable, so before about 24/25 weeks at the earliest. A far cry from a day before the due date, which is 40 weeks.

You are precisely right. And the serious pro-life movement today is not happy with his arguments. They know damn well people aren't aborting fetuses days before delivery and so these points that he reinforced of "ripping the baby from the womb" actually do the movement a disservice. It mocks them by not understanding what they care about. The same thing happened with his MAJOR error when he said women must be punished back in the spring.

Then what does "late term abortion" mean, and why did Hilary say sometimes new information comes in the last weeks of the pregnancy that can influence a mother's decision if she was referring to 24 weeks?
She clearly was not referring to 24 weeks and earlier.

How do you know she clearly wasn't referring to 24 weeks or earlier?

A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation. The exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term, however, is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late".[5][6] Three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association could not agree on the definition. Two of the JAMA articles chose the 20th week of gestation to be the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term.[7] The third JAMA article chose the third trimester, or 27th week of gestation.[8]
The point at which an abortion becomes late-term is often related to the "viability" (ability to survive outside the uterus) of the fetus. Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions. However, viability varies greatly among pregnancies. Many pregnancies are viable after the 27th week, and no pregnancies are viable before the 21st week. Everything in between is a "grey area".[8]

Because didn't she say something along the lines of sometimes new information is revealed during the last few weeks of pregnancy? I don't have a transcript, but I remember her saying something very similar to that during that conversation, which would mean much later than week 24 if you're talking about the last weeks of a pregnancy.

So, that "new information" would be that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or a fatal medical condition.

Or a threat to the mother's life when the fetus isn't viable.

Definitely could be. That wasn't the question though, the question how did in infer she was for abortions passed 24 weeks.

The quote that is was pretty much every article was Clinton saying ""This is one of the worst possible choices that any women and her family has to make and I do not believe the government should be making it."
That however left out the beginning of the sentence, I could not find a single article until I watched a video clip where she started the sentence with "At the end of a pregnancy..." And followed that statement again by saying "At the end of a pregnancy." I don't see how someone could mean 24 weeks and use the phrase "At the end of the pregnancy."