I recognize that white skinned people have a long history of oppression of people with black skin. That being said, I think that in today's day and age, it is to a lesser degree than at any time throughout American history. My problem with this conversation is that it almost seems as though some are using "white privilege" as a justification or a way to excuse violent protests. People are responsible for their own actions. Looting and arson during these riots cannot be blamed on white privileges, they are criminal acts perpetrated by opportunistic criminals and a mob mentality.
I haven't seen anything of the sort.
You're not reading between the lines. The fact that this thread about the illegitimacy of the riots has derailed into a conversation about white privilege says it all. To get back on topic- I posted this in another thread, but I feel it fits here as well. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=51f_1474633969
I recognize that white skinned people have a long history of oppression of people with black skin. That being said, I think that in today's day and age, it is to a lesser degree than at any time throughout American history. My problem with this conversation is that it almost seems as though some are using "white privilege" as a justification or a way to excuse violent protests. People are responsible for their own actions. Looting and arson during these riots cannot be blamed on white privileges, they are criminal acts perpetrated by opportunistic criminals and a mob mentality.
I haven't seen anything of the sort.
You're not reading between the lines. The fact that this thread about the illegitimacy of the riots has derailed into a conversation about white privilege says it all. To get back on topic- I posted this in another thread, but I feel it fits here as well. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=51f_1474633969
You are reading far too much between the lines. Threads devolve in this way all the time and it's not some statement about our subconscious thoughts, it is just an indicator that many of us (certainly me!) will pursue an argument endlessly. This debate is taking place across several threads, and I would bet many are (like myself) simply tracking the debate at large without much concern for the original intent of the threads.
I haven't seen any defense of the deplorable activities happening in SC, and reading between the lines is a risky practice that allows far too great an opportunity to project.
You may be right, but it is seeming like turning every thread into a white privilege conversation is an apologetic "wag the dog" strategy of sorts. Maybe it has just come across that way to me personally.
For my part, and I think dignin and beaverguy are aligned wit me here, I am doggedly continuing the white privilege discussion because the rebuttals are outrageous (and always angry) and it is shocking that people can be so obtuse as to fail to recognize that black people have had, and still continue to have (though diminishing) disadvantages in America.
Yah. You three have it all figured out and the rest of the people around here are stupid.
There is also a contingency that speaks to the problems blacks face as well as to the problems blacks bring upon themselves: this would be the most objective perspective on this subject. You guys are the exact opposite as your major opponents- Musky and GF in particular (no offence intended to anyone)- and fail to see the fact that you're so bent on your premise that anything outside of it... regardless of legitimacy... fails to stand to reason.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
I know what I wrote, and helpless was something I didn't say. I was referring to the concept of responsibility and that it becomes very ambiguous when you start to really dig into it. That's nothing about excuses and is even more in depth about an individuals responsibility.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
White privilege would play a role in someone's parents success.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
White privilege would play a role in someone's parents success.
It s not what you know but rather who you know. I m thinking white privilege is an urban legend at this point.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
I know what I wrote, and helpless was something I didn't say. I was referring to the concept of responsibility and that it becomes very ambiguous when you start to really dig into it. That's nothing about excuses and is even more in depth about an individuals responsibility.
Responsibility becomes ambiguous when you start to really dig into it.
Hmmm.
You're going to have to forgive me for thinking this sounds like some good excuse making.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
I know what I wrote, and helpless was something I didn't say. I was referring to the concept of responsibility and that it becomes very ambiguous when you start to really dig into it. That's nothing about excuses and is even more in depth about an individuals responsibility.
Responsibility becomes ambiguous when you start to really dig into it.
Hmmm.
You're going to have to forgive me for thinking this sounds like some good excuse making.
It can be hard to put into words and in these kind of formats, terms and definitions can get sideways. Based on the thread, I can probably safely say when you say responsibility, you're meaning a person improving their situation with regard to economic status (contributing rather than taking away). Let's call it upward movement. Many factors play into this movement. The individual's attitude, intelligence, skills, ability, motivation, education, emotional state, etc. American culture leans heavily and emphasizes this aspect of individuality. (remember, this is a cultural influence, not a human influence). There's also many external factors that come into play for a person's movement: access to job opportunities, norms set by peers, quality of education, safety in their community, family relationships, community support, peer relationships, access to resources that stimulate creativity, activity and connection with others.etc... Of course, a lot of these external things are tied to the economic status of the local community. So, when you bring it back to an individual going through upward movement, they navigate all of these hurdles and also may (or may not) access all of these resources external to them. They have their individual parts, and they integrate them with the external. The external influence should never be minimized and is huge with people's success, which tends to run counter with American individualism. (Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a few beers at this point) What I'm saying is that compassion and understanding for an individual is an infinite resource. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given consequences for breaking the law, but my take is that their decision process, and all the elements that played into that process, needs to be understood. When you start to look at someone's being, where before they were discarded, this notion of responsibility turns grey very quickly.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
White privilege would play a role in someone's parents success.
It s not what you know but rather who you know. I m thinking white privilege is an urban legend at this point.
Do you not see that African Americans in the US face (not insurmountable) specific disadvantages in life?
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
I know what I wrote, and helpless was something I didn't say. I was referring to the concept of responsibility and that it becomes very ambiguous when you start to really dig into it. That's nothing about excuses and is even more in depth about an individuals responsibility.
Responsibility becomes ambiguous when you start to really dig into it.
Hmmm.
You're going to have to forgive me for thinking this sounds like some good excuse making.
It can be hard to put into words and in these kind of formats, terms and definitions can get sideways. Based on the thread, I can probably safely say when you say responsibility, you're meaning a person improving their situation with regard to economic status (contributing rather than taking away). Let's call it upward movement. Many factors play into this movement. The individual's attitude, intelligence, skills, ability, motivation, education, emotional state, etc. American culture leans heavily and emphasizes this aspect of individuality. (remember, this is a cultural influence, not a human influence). There's also many external factors that come into play for a person's movement: access to job opportunities, norms set by peers, quality of education, safety in their community, family relationships, community support, peer relationships, access to resources that stimulate creativity, activity and connection with others.etc... Of course, a lot of these external things are tied to the economic status of the local community. So, when you bring it back to an individual going through upward movement, they navigate all of these hurdles and also may (or may not) access all of these resources external to them. They have their individual parts, and they integrate them with the external. The external influence should never be minimized and is huge with people's success, which tends to run counter with American individualism. (Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a few beers at this point) What I'm saying is that compassion and understanding for an individual is an infinite resource. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given consequences for breaking the law, but my take is that their decision process, and all the elements that played into that process, needs to be understood. When you start to look at someone's being, where before they were discarded, this notion of responsibility turns grey very quickly.
A good post, but I'm afraid we aren't on the same page with regards to what I meant by responsibility.
I don't mean upward mobility- remember I'm one of the people stating that there is little hope for inner city youth. By speaking to personal or social responsibility, I basically mean to say be a decent human being: don't hurt other people and stay within the law.
Again, I understand why some resort to crime, but it's not an excuse as difficult as their personal situation might be.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
White privilege would play a role in someone's parents success.
It s not what you know but rather who you know. I m thinking white privilege is an urban legend at this point.
Do you not see that African Americans in the US face (not insurmountable) specific disadvantages in life?
To me everyone has a personal choice of what to do with their life. You want to drop out of school and join a gang that s on you.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
Go back and read your post about the 'people you've worked with' and how helpless they became as a victim of circumstances.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
I know what I wrote, and helpless was something I didn't say. I was referring to the concept of responsibility and that it becomes very ambiguous when you start to really dig into it. That's nothing about excuses and is even more in depth about an individuals responsibility.
Responsibility becomes ambiguous when you start to really dig into it.
Hmmm.
You're going to have to forgive me for thinking this sounds like some good excuse making.
It can be hard to put into words and in these kind of formats, terms and definitions can get sideways. Based on the thread, I can probably safely say when you say responsibility, you're meaning a person improving their situation with regard to economic status (contributing rather than taking away). Let's call it upward movement. Many factors play into this movement. The individual's attitude, intelligence, skills, ability, motivation, education, emotional state, etc. American culture leans heavily and emphasizes this aspect of individuality. (remember, this is a cultural influence, not a human influence). There's also many external factors that come into play for a person's movement: access to job opportunities, norms set by peers, quality of education, safety in their community, family relationships, community support, peer relationships, access to resources that stimulate creativity, activity and connection with others.etc... Of course, a lot of these external things are tied to the economic status of the local community. So, when you bring it back to an individual going through upward movement, they navigate all of these hurdles and also may (or may not) access all of these resources external to them. They have their individual parts, and they integrate them with the external. The external influence should never be minimized and is huge with people's success, which tends to run counter with American individualism. (Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a few beers at this point) What I'm saying is that compassion and understanding for an individual is an infinite resource. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given consequences for breaking the law, but my take is that their decision process, and all the elements that played into that process, needs to be understood. When you start to look at someone's being, where before they were discarded, this notion of responsibility turns grey very quickly.
A good post, but I'm afraid we aren't on the same page with regards to what I meant by responsibility.
I don't mean upward mobility- remember I'm one of the people stating that there is little hope for inner city youth. By speaking to personal or social responsibility, I basically mean to say be a decent human being: don't hurt other people and stay within the law.
Again, I understand why some resort to crime, but it's not an excuse as difficult as their personal situation might be.
I think we're more on the same page, since I'm not taking about excuses. People in low crime areas aren't born with some higher level morality. There born into somewhere where the external is different than a high crime area. Most people talking about 'excuses' would also agree that externals (i.e. opportunity, etc) keep someone out of crime. Things external to an individual effect their behavior, aka responsibility.
Many of you don't seem to really know what white priviledge means. It actually has nothing to do with how you were raised. It has to do with the opportunity a white person has and the kind of treatment they are subject to compared to a black person when all other things are equal... or when the cops or justice system are involved. We're not really talking about some rich white kid vs some black kid from the projects or vice versa.
But it's a complicated issue. Here are some interesting links for anyone who actually wants to understand what white priviledge is really about (and why it's not about white guilt). I think I already posted the first one in another thread, but it's a pretty good editorial for explaining white priviledge to white people IMO. Second link is a video that is food for thought
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
It's simple. It's working hard to be successful within the boundaries of societies laws and standards while not looking for handouts and shortcuts.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
It's simple. It's working hard to be successful within the boundaries of societies laws and standards while not looking for handouts and shortcuts.
No, that's not what it is at all, lol. Not even close.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Many of you don't seem to really know what white priviledge means. It actually has nothing to do with how you were raised. It has to do with the opportunity a white person has and the kind of treatment they are subject to compared to a black person when all other things are equal... or when the cops or justice system are involved. We're not really talking about some rich white kid vs some black kid from the projects or vice versa.
But it's a complicated issue. Here are some interesting links for anyone who actually wants to understand what white priviledge is really about (and why it's not about white guilt). I think I already posted the first one in another thread, but it's a pretty good editorial for explaining white priviledge to white people IMO. Second link is a video that is food for thought
Based on your definition, "the opportunity a white person has and the kind of treatment they are subject to compared to a black person when all other things are equal" I'd have to say white privilege does not exist. I see countless examples of people being given equal opportunities in education, work, etc. in fact, who doesn't see far more examples of the opposite? Scholarships are available exclusively for minoroties (I have never seen a single scholarship available to only whites) the work force will hire and promote minorities at a higher rate than whites and that is pretty well established and acknowledged by many companies. The difference is in the starting place, but that is specifically excluded in your definition. More blacks start in poverty than whites, which lead to higher crime stats. Higher sentences can also be explained. You have to either believe that the majority of judges are racist, or that stiffer sentencing is caused by one of two other factors, being 1) better representation and 2) the increase crime rate for blacks means an increase I multiple offenses which will contribute to longer sentences.
If there's evidence that disproves white privilege, then bring it up for discussion.
I've never denied it exists.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
When have we made excuses? Please stop making shit up.
No kidding. Who was making excuses? And I'm also well aware of my own white privilege, which I've incorporated into my position.
So white privelage is exactly what? Having successful parents to help you along the way?
White privilege would play a role in someone's parents success.
It s not what you know but rather who you know. I m thinking white privilege is an urban legend at this point.
Do you not see that African Americans in the US face (not insurmountable) specific disadvantages in life?
To me everyone has a personal choice of what to do with their life. You want to drop out of school and join a gang that s on you.
Deflection. You did not answer the question at all.
Everyone has a choice, a person makes their choice and then they face obstacles to achieving their desires and living their choices. African Americans (very obviously) face a specific set of obstacles that white people do not face. Yes, I know everyone faces their own obstacles, that is another deflection.
Many of you don't seem to really know what white priviledge means. It actually has nothing to do with how you were raised. It has to do with the opportunity a white person has and the kind of treatment they are subject to compared to a black person when all other things are equal... or when the cops or justice system are involved. We're not really talking about some rich white kid vs some black kid from the projects or vice versa.
But it's a complicated issue. Here are some interesting links for anyone who actually wants to understand what white priviledge is really about (and why it's not about white guilt). I think I already posted the first one in another thread, but it's a pretty good editorial for explaining white priviledge to white people IMO. Second link is a video that is food for thought
Based on your definition, "the opportunity a white person has and the kind of treatment they are subject to compared to a black person when all other things are equal" I'd have to say white privilege does not exist. I see countless examples of people being given equal opportunities in education, work, etc. in fact, who doesn't see far more examples of the opposite? Scholarships are available exclusively for minoroties (I have never seen a single scholarship available to only whites) the work force will hire and promote minorities at a higher rate than whites and that is pretty well established and acknowledged by many companies. The difference is in the starting place, but that is specifically excluded in your definition. More blacks start in poverty than whites, which lead to higher crime stats. Higher sentences can also be explained. You have to either believe that the majority of judges are racist, or that stiffer sentencing is caused by one of two other factors, being 1) better representation and 2) the increase crime rate for blacks means an increase I multiple offenses which will contribute to longer sentences.
Wrong, just wrong. The difference between powder cocaine and crack cocaine is unimportant in every way but 1, which is the sentence you receive for possessing or selling them. Why? Because powder was more typically done by white people and crack by black people at the time when they changed the sentencing to make crack penalties much heavier.
I have a hard time believing some white people sat around thinking "how can we keep the blacks down some more? I got it, don't they use powder cocaine more? There's the answer then, make stiffer punishments for using crack, that'll solve it!"
Within 2 minutes of a google search I found multiple sources that discuss the difference between powder and crack, all saying how much more dangerous and addictive crack is vs powder. That seems to me like a much more likely reason to offer stiffer punishments than based on who uses it. And in fact they are not the same from what I read.
"Smoked cocaine, or crack cocaine, takes about 20 seconds to reach the brain, and its effects last for about 30 minutes. According to a study published in the US National Library of Medicine, there is a greater propensity for dependence when cocaine is smoked rather than snorted. The immediacy, duration, and magnitude of the effects of crack contribute to this fact."
And you are also willing to ignore the fact that blacks have more repeat offenders (a fact I've seen used to explain why our judicial system is racist by the way, claiming those repeat offender laws were made to keep black people down too. Similar to your claim, which just doesn't seem logical to me) and the fact that more blacks are in poverty and therefore rely on public defenders more and as a result get bad representation. It comes down to the crack vs powder law?
I have a hard time believing some white people sat around thinking "how can we keep the blacks down some more? I got it, don't they use powder cocaine more? There's the answer then, make stiffer punishments for using crack, that'll solve it!"
Within 2 minutes of a google search I found multiple sources that discuss the difference between powder and crack, all saying how much more dangerous and addictive crack is vs powder. That seems to me like a much more likely reason to offer stiffer punishments than based on who uses it. And in fact they are not the same from what I read.
"Smoked cocaine, or crack cocaine, takes about 20 seconds to reach the brain, and its effects last for about 30 minutes. According to a study published in the US National Library of Medicine, there is a greater propensity for dependence when cocaine is smoked rather than snorted. The immediacy, duration, and magnitude of the effects of crack contribute to this fact."
And you are also willing to ignore the fact that blacks have more repeat offenders (a fact I've seen used to explain why our judicial system is racist by the way, claiming those repeat offender laws were made to keep black people down too. Similar to your claim, which just doesn't seem logical to me) and the fact that more blacks are in poverty and therefore rely on public defenders more and as a result get bad representation. It comes down to the crack vs powder law?
Hahaha apparently you have a very weak imagination. Do you also have a hard time imagining that white people would develop a set of laws and practices that would keep black people subordinated for generations, or have you heard of Jim Crow in your travels through life?
I have a hard time believing some white people sat around thinking "how can we keep the blacks down some more? I got it, don't they use powder cocaine more? There's the answer then, make stiffer punishments for using crack, that'll solve it!"
Within 2 minutes of a google search I found multiple sources that discuss the difference between powder and crack, all saying how much more dangerous and addictive crack is vs powder. That seems to me like a much more likely reason to offer stiffer punishments than based on who uses it. And in fact they are not the same from what I read.
"Smoked cocaine, or crack cocaine, takes about 20 seconds to reach the brain, and its effects last for about 30 minutes. According to a study published in the US National Library of Medicine, there is a greater propensity for dependence when cocaine is smoked rather than snorted. The immediacy, duration, and magnitude of the effects of crack contribute to this fact."
And you are also willing to ignore the fact that blacks have more repeat offenders (a fact I've seen used to explain why our judicial system is racist by the way, claiming those repeat offender laws were made to keep black people down too. Similar to your claim, which just doesn't seem logical to me) and the fact that more blacks are in poverty and therefore rely on public defenders more and as a result get bad representation. It comes down to the crack vs powder law?
Hahaha apparently you have a very weak imagination. Do you also have a hard time imagining that white people would develop a set of laws and practices that would keep black people subordinated for generations, or have you heard of Jim Crow in your travels through life?
Jim crow was beat more than 40 years ago. are we still thinking jim crow has a direct impact on people's lives today? I mean I'm irish and my ancestors were treated like dog shit in the usa for a long time. can I still use this as an excuse if something doesn't go my way?
I have a hard time believing some white people sat around thinking "how can we keep the blacks down some more? I got it, don't they use powder cocaine more? There's the answer then, make stiffer punishments for using crack, that'll solve it!"
Within 2 minutes of a google search I found multiple sources that discuss the difference between powder and crack, all saying how much more dangerous and addictive crack is vs powder. That seems to me like a much more likely reason to offer stiffer punishments than based on who uses it. And in fact they are not the same from what I read.
"Smoked cocaine, or crack cocaine, takes about 20 seconds to reach the brain, and its effects last for about 30 minutes. According to a study published in the US National Library of Medicine, there is a greater propensity for dependence when cocaine is smoked rather than snorted. The immediacy, duration, and magnitude of the effects of crack contribute to this fact."
And you are also willing to ignore the fact that blacks have more repeat offenders (a fact I've seen used to explain why our judicial system is racist by the way, claiming those repeat offender laws were made to keep black people down too. Similar to your claim, which just doesn't seem logical to me) and the fact that more blacks are in poverty and therefore rely on public defenders more and as a result get bad representation. It comes down to the crack vs powder law?
Hahaha apparently you have a very weak imagination. Do you also have a hard time imagining that white people would develop a set of laws and practices that would keep black people subordinated for generations, or have you heard of Jim Crow in your travels through life?
Jim crow was beat more than 40 years ago. are we still thinking jim crow has a direct impact on people's lives today? I mean I'm irish and my ancestors were treated like dog shit in the usa for a long time. can I still use this as an excuse if something doesn't go my way?
No, because Irish people aren't still suffering from that. You can't say it because it's not a reality for you.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
There is also a contingency that speaks to the problems blacks face as well as to the problems blacks bring upon themselves: this would be the most objective perspective on this subject. You guys are the exact opposite as your major opponents- Musky and GF in particular (no offence intended to anyone)- and fail to see the fact that you're so bent on your premise that anything outside of it... regardless of legitimacy... fails to stand to reason.
I've also pointed out the failings of individuals within the black community who have failed to exercise strong values and have made very poor decisions (acknowledging at the same time the challenges they face when doing so).
You have most certainly trumpeted the white privilege issue (opportunistic as you have been yourself within it no less)... yet made excuses for these 'failings' I speak of as if those people are simply incapable of exercising decency or responsibility.
I'm not making anything up. Keep spewing away.
Hmmm.
You're going to have to forgive me for thinking this sounds like some good excuse making.
(Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a few beers at this point)
What I'm saying is that compassion and understanding for an individual is an infinite resource. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given consequences for breaking the law, but my take is that their decision process, and all the elements that played into that process, needs to be understood. When you start to look at someone's being, where before they were discarded, this notion of responsibility turns grey very quickly.
I don't mean upward mobility- remember I'm one of the people stating that there is little hope for inner city youth. By speaking to personal or social responsibility, I basically mean to say be a decent human being: don't hurt other people and stay within the law.
Again, I understand why some resort to crime, but it's not an excuse as difficult as their personal situation might be.
But it's a complicated issue. Here are some interesting links for anyone who actually wants to understand what white priviledge is really about (and why it's not about white guilt). I think I already posted the first one in another thread, but it's a pretty good editorial for explaining white priviledge to white people IMO. Second link is a video that is food for thought
http://occupywallstreet.net/story/explaining-white-privilege-broke-white-person
http://matthewcooke.com/2015/08/20/racebaiting-101/
The difference is in the starting place, but that is specifically excluded in your definition. More blacks start in poverty than whites, which lead to higher crime stats.
Higher sentences can also be explained. You have to either believe that the majority of judges are racist, or that stiffer sentencing is caused by one of two other factors, being 1) better representation and 2) the increase crime rate for blacks means an increase I multiple offenses which will contribute to longer sentences.
You did not answer the question at all.
Everyone has a choice, a person makes their choice and then they face obstacles to achieving their desires and living their choices.
African Americans (very obviously) face a specific set of obstacles that white people do not face.
Yes, I know everyone faces their own obstacles, that is another deflection.
The difference between powder cocaine and crack cocaine is unimportant in every way but 1, which is the sentence you receive for possessing or selling them.
Why?
Because powder was more typically done by white people and crack by black people at the time when they changed the sentencing to make crack penalties much heavier.
I have a hard time believing some white people sat around thinking "how can we keep the blacks down some more? I got it, don't they use powder cocaine more? There's the answer then, make stiffer punishments for using crack, that'll solve it!"
Within 2 minutes of a google search I found multiple sources that discuss the difference between powder and crack, all saying how much more dangerous and addictive crack is vs powder. That seems to me like a much more likely reason to offer stiffer punishments than based on who uses it. And in fact they are not the same from what I read.
"Smoked cocaine, or crack cocaine, takes about 20 seconds to reach the brain, and its effects last for about 30 minutes. According to a study published in the US National Library of Medicine, there is a greater propensity for dependence when cocaine is smoked rather than snorted. The immediacy, duration, and magnitude of the effects of crack contribute to this fact."
http://cocaine.org/the-difference-between-powder-cocaine-and-crack-cocaine/
And you are also willing to ignore the fact that blacks have more repeat offenders (a fact I've seen used to explain why our judicial system is racist by the way, claiming those repeat offender laws were made to keep black people down too. Similar to your claim, which just doesn't seem logical to me) and the fact that more blacks are in poverty and therefore rely on public defenders more and as a result get bad representation. It comes down to the crack vs powder law?
Do you also have a hard time imagining that white people would develop a set of laws and practices that would keep black people subordinated for generations, or have you heard of Jim Crow in your travels through life?
I mean I'm irish and my ancestors were treated like dog shit in the usa for a long time. can I still use this as an excuse if something doesn't go my way?