Police shooting people.....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

OffSheGoes35 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

EM194007 said:

Go Beavers said:

If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.

More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?

I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.

Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.

wow that's a pretty insane statistic.
blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.

you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?

Godfather.

UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.

An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poo

Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here.
With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015.
That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000.
That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?

Again... you won't get a sound response to this post.

Why not? Btw, it helps when one doesn't refer to responders as "nitwits" or "these types". One is more likely to get sound replies to sound requests.

Why not? Because it's too challenging. It's much easier to point fingers at the point of the problem (cops shooting black people) than to look at the entire scope of the problem.

Everywhere in the world where poverty exists, crime manifests itself. Impoverished neighbourhoods in America feature crime. As such, cops are drawn to these neighbourhoods and encounters occur between cops and black people on a much more frequent occurrence than they do with whites in suburban areas.

Why is there not a proportionately even distribution of whites and blacks in suburban areas and inner city project areas? What has happened in the USA where we can acknowledge concentrated poor 'black' communities? How has this happened?

I'm not saying there are no racist cops and that there have been no legitimate cases of cop abuse. I'm saying the problem is much more profound than many care to admit (those types).

Good points. Perhaps if more questions were framed in such a manner, with more emphasis on socioeconomic development (or lack thereof), as opposed to having more of a racial bent... we could have one of those discussions that would be more to everybody's liking. That was a well-constructed post, thirty.

I agree that the problem is much more profound than many would care to admit.

Thanks.

I'm glad we can see things the same way. Thanks as well for demanding I elaborate before jumping down my throat.

Cheers.

PJ_Soul

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

Degeneratefk

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

Ehh. It's not all racism. Let's not get carried away.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

I would agree much of it can be traced back to racism. I don't believe the current level of racism is nearly as high as some claim it to be. And as pointed out most of the shootings are a result of poverty and high crime in poverty. Modern day racism has little to nothing to do with with that because I believe it exists in such a small level it doesn't have a major impact. Yes you can find exceptions, just like I can find black leaders making racist quotes too.
But in today's world much of society goes out of the way to help the minority's first, in schools, job market etc.
But I could buy the argument it's tied to racism because even though they may have the same opportunities today, their grandparents didn't. And if you are not educated, it is more likely your kids will not be either. So these high crime poverty neighborhoods are the offsprings of racism 100 years ago, but not today. So in my opinion there's not an epidemic of racist cops, but a poverty cycle in society that, among several other factors, help contribute to high crime and poor neighborhoods.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

it needs to be direct because it's quite different to say "white cops shoot black men because they are racists" than it is to say "black men are by far the majority of criminals in this country, because of oppression and racism going back 200 years, so by thoses statistics, of course they are going to be the majority of the ones involved in conflict with law enforcement".

the first statement tells us it's a cop problem.
the second statement tells us it's a socio economic problem.

If we want to really solve the problem, distinguishing the two is, to me, obviously paramount.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

Go Beavers

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

EM194007 said:

Go Beavers said:

If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.

More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?

I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.

Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.

wow that's a pretty insane statistic.
blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.

you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?

Godfather.

UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.

An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.

Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here.
With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015.
That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000.
That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?

You're comparing two different things and trying to make a reverse analogy. Blacks are killed by cops at a much higher rate than they are whites. It seems like a lot of people are just fine with the government taking away freedoms and rights of others as long as they see it benefit themselves in some way.

I don't think I am comparing 2 different things. We're talking about groups of people being wrongfully targeted and killed. If you are a cop you are 10 times more likely to be targeted and killed than if you are black (and that is even assuming that 100% of black deaths are unwarranted) if you take into consideration the justified self defense killings that number is much, much higher.
Data has been displayed here and similar threads discussing black deaths. Data is rarely helpful when taken out of context or not displayed in full. Well you can find more data on the same FBI website that has been quoted multiple times that states blacks are the offenders in 89% of black/white violent crimes. And that blacks account for nearly 40% of violent crime, so why is it surprising to anyone that they account for only 26% of police shootings despite being 13% of the population? At the very least seems like the data hardly justifies calling this an "epidemic" or"open season" or supporting the claim that cops have a race problem.
And how is any normal person benefitting if your claims of police brutality are true? I find it pretty offensive that you think I would be fine with police murders and that I do benefit from it some how.

I've been having a few reactions to stances like this where black crime is referenced in response to highlighting the issue of police racism. It's a minimization of the problem with police and how they often deal with blacks. It also suggests that they are somehow deserving of not having protections and rights, the same rights that whites have. It brings up another privilege that whites have. When whites commit crime, I'm in no way held responsible for white crime. But yet, if a black person speaks out about police abuse, it's flipped to the subject of black crime, and the message being 'if you would all just behave, maybe then we'll consider your concerns about police, but in the meantime, you'll have to do something about criminals who are black'. This kind of message toward minority groups is common; that a member of the group is somehow responsible for and has influence over all the others.

mace1229

my2hands said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/footage-shows-police-shooting-man-hands-gun-graphic-article-1.2709159

technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?

You can tell that video is fake, he wasn't black.

mace1229

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Godfather. said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

EM194007 said:

Go Beavers said:

If the rate of cops killing whites was the same as cops killing blacks, then we'd have a different story, the problem is, cops kill blacks at about 3x the rate they kill whites. And maybe I made an assumption about race when you referred to the people protesting and gang violence.

More whites were shot and killed by the police then blacks last year. Where are you coming up with more blacks were shot and killed?

I didn't say more blacks were shot than whites. You're three times more likely to be shot by a cop if you're black than if you're white.

Unarmed black men are actually 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men.

wow that's a pretty insane statistic.
blacks are also 13% of the overall population but account for 40% of the total number of people in prison. craziness. Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites.

you can also look at that and wonder why ? are these people committing more crimes than whites ?

Godfather.

UNARMED black men 7 times more likely to be killed by a cop than Unarmed white men. It doesn't matter who is committing crime when you consider this stat.

An unarmed black man going for a cops gun and is shot will be reported as "unarmed". So this whole thing sbout unarmed men getting shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt. As mentioned in a previous post, there's higher crime in poor communities. Many black communities happen to be poor.

Here is exactly why anyone who says "open season on blacks" , or anything that eludes to that, will immediately be dismissed by me. Not saying you have-haven't scrolled through to see the list of those who did- just adding to the conversation here.
With about 42,000,000 blacks in this country, 301 were shot and killed by police in 2015.
That same year 42 cops were shot and killed out of 600,000.
That means if you are black you have a 0.0007% chance of being shot by a cop. But if you're a cop you have 0.007% chance of being shot, that is 10 times more likely. Why isn't anyone crying "open season" on cops?

You're comparing two different things and trying to make a reverse analogy. Blacks are killed by cops at a much higher rate than they are whites. It seems like a lot of people are just fine with the government taking away freedoms and rights of others as long as they see it benefit themselves in some way.

I don't think I am comparing 2 different things. We're talking about groups of people being wrongfully targeted and killed. If you are a cop you are 10 times more likely to be targeted and killed than if you are black (and that is even assuming that 100% of black deaths are unwarranted) if you take into consideration the justified self defense killings that number is much, much higher.
Data has been displayed here and similar threads discussing black deaths. Data is rarely helpful when taken out of context or not displayed in full. Well you can find more data on the same FBI website that has been quoted multiple times that states blacks are the offenders in 89% of black/white violent crimes. And that blacks account for nearly 40% of violent crime, so why is it surprising to anyone that they account for only 26% of police shootings despite being 13% of the population? At the very least seems like the data hardly justifies calling this an "epidemic" or"open season" or supporting the claim that cops have a race problem.
And how is any normal person benefitting if your claims of police brutality are true? I find it pretty offensive that you think I would be fine with police murders and that I do benefit from it some how.

I've been having a few reactions to stances like this where black crime is referenced in response to highlighting the issue of police racism. It's a minimization of the problem with police and how they often deal with blacks. It also suggests that they are somehow deserving of not having protections and rights, the same rights that whites have. It brings up another privilege that whites have. When whites commit crime, I'm in no way held responsible for white crime. But yet, if a black person speaks out about police abuse, it's flipped to the subject of black crime, and the message being 'if you would all just behave, maybe then we'll consider your concerns about police, but in the meantime, you'll have to do something about criminals who are black'. This kind of message toward minority groups is common; that a member of the group is somehow responsible for and has influence over all the others.

Look at the last sentence you wrote. "That a member of the group is somehow responsible for and has influence over all the others." is t that exactly what you are doing? Because of 1 or 2 videos you are labeling police brutality as a norm against blacks.
Where did I or anyone else say blacks deserve less rights or protection? Now you are just making stuff up.
I merely stated statistics because others have referenced to try to support the claim about police bias. I was using the same data to suggest other possibilities than police racism; if a group commits 42% of the violent crime they will be arrested, shot and in jail more. How does that not make sense? And imply that minority groups deserve less? And where did you come up with "if a black person speaks up...." I, and probably most have no idea what color anyone on here is, how is that affecting our response and how dare we use statistics when taking to someone of color.
Not all whites are responsible for white crime just like blacks are not either. But we were talking about statistics. More blacks are arrested, in jail and shot because they commit more violent crime than any other group. That doesn't mean every black person is bad, far from it. It just helps explain the lopsided data for those trying to use that data to prove that half a million cops are racist and out there to shoot blacks.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

I don't think I have ignored it. When police routinely deal with black people in black neighbourhoods... their 'racist' attitude develops. If they didn't habitually deal with these people, their attitudes towards them would likely be different.

Look at what is happening with sentiments towards Muslim people right now. People are tiring of radical Islamic idiots and broad based characterizations are starting to occur regarding Muslims in general. Before 9-11 and recent horrific events, nobody really have two shits about Muslim people- there was nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you dealt in human nature. You don't understand how these attitudes develop?

The answer isn't better training for cops or sensitivity classes (although I'm in favour of both)... the answer is empowering black communities so that their days have the potential to be filled with productive and positive activities versus crime given no legitimate alternative (Carl's Junior isn't a legitimate alternative).

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

I don't think I have ignored it. When police routinely deal with black people in black neighbourhoods... their 'racist' attitude develops. If they didn't habitually deal with these people, their attitudes towards them would likely be different.

Look at what is happening with sentiments towards Muslim people right now. People are tiring of radical Islamic idiots and broad based characterizations are starting to occur regarding Muslims in general. Before 9-11 and recent horrific events, nobody really have two shits about Muslim people- there was nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you dealt in human nature. You don't understand how these attitudes develop?

The answer isn't better training for cops or sensitivity classes (although I'm in favour of both)... the answer is empowering black communities so that their days have the potential to be filled with productive and positive activities versus crime given no legitimate alternative (Carl's Junior isn't a legitimate alternative).

yes.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

I don't think I have ignored it. When police routinely deal with black people in black neighbourhoods... their 'racist' attitude develops. If they didn't habitually deal with these people, their attitudes towards them would likely be different.

Look at what is happening with sentiments towards Muslim people right now. People are tiring of radical Islamic idiots and broad based characterizations are starting to occur regarding Muslims in general. Before 9-11 and recent horrific events, nobody really have two shits about Muslim people- there was nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you dealt in human nature. You don't understand how these attitudes develop?

The answer isn't better training for cops or sensitivity classes (although I'm in favour of both)... the answer is empowering black communities so that their days have the potential to be filled with productive and positive activities versus crime given no legitimate alternative (Carl's Junior isn't a legitimate alternative).

yes.

Geezuz Hugh. What's happening? We've been in agreement mode for a little while now. Lol.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

I don't think I have ignored it. When police routinely deal with black people in black neighbourhoods... their 'racist' attitude develops. If they didn't habitually deal with these people, their attitudes towards them would likely be different.

Look at what is happening with sentiments towards Muslim people right now. People are tiring of radical Islamic idiots and broad based characterizations are starting to occur regarding Muslims in general. Before 9-11 and recent horrific events, nobody really have two shits about Muslim people- there was nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you dealt in human nature. You don't understand how these attitudes develop?

The answer isn't better training for cops or sensitivity classes (although I'm in favour of both)... the answer is empowering black communities so that their days have the potential to be filled with productive and positive activities versus crime given no legitimate alternative (Carl's Junior isn't a legitimate alternative).

yes.

Geezuz Hugh. What's happening? We've been in agreement mode for a little while now. Lol.

I was wondering when you'd comment on that.

i_lov_it

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

my2hands said:

i_lov_it said:

my2hands said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/footage-shows-police-shooting-man-hands-gun-graphic-article-1.2709159

technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?

He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...

i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun

this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...

I wouldn't waste your time. These types would suggest cops do at least three matrix moves avoiding bullets fired at them before looking to defend their lives.

Just stupid.

Or maybe use something that might be NEW to YOU....and use that thing between your ears...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

i_lov_it said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

my2hands said:

i_lov_it said:

my2hands said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/footage-shows-police-shooting-man-hands-gun-graphic-article-1.2709159

technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?

He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...

i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun

this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...

I wouldn't waste your time. These types would suggest cops do at least three matrix moves avoiding bullets fired at them before looking to defend their lives.

Just stupid.

Or maybe use something that might be NEW to YOU....and use that thing between your ears...

My nose? My nose is between my ears. But I've always had it. It's not new to me. I'm confused? Smell something? Smell something about police shooting people? Smell something with my nose? Hmmm.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

i_lov_it said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

my2hands said:

i_lov_it said:

my2hands said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/footage-shows-police-shooting-man-hands-gun-graphic-article-1.2709159

technically an unarmed man was killed by police... what would you have done?

He couldn't tell the difference between a hand and a gun...Trigger happy cop there...

i'm sure you would have been completely calm and waited patiently to get a good view to find out... with your life on the line... at night... after a 100mph chase... in which he says you will have to kill him while he acts aggressively towards you gesturing as if he has a firearm.... I'm sure you would have instantly been able to realize it was a gesture and not an actual gun

this is an example of the judgmental Monday morning quarterbacking that drives me nuts...

I wouldn't waste your time. These types would suggest cops do at least three matrix moves avoiding bullets fired at them before looking to defend their lives.

Just stupid.

Or maybe use something that might be NEW to YOU....and use that thing between your ears...

My nose? My nose is between my ears. But I've always had it. It's not new to me. I'm confused? Smell something? Smell something about police shooting people? Smell something with my nose? Hmmm.

Go Beavers

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

But why are so many black people living is such conditions? Because of racism. It really does all lead back to racism in the end, no matter which direction you look at it from.

because of the oppression of them ever since they were bought and brought here. yes, it does all lead back to racism, but the shootings are not, in my opinion, a direct result of racism.

There is a pretty clear correlation between the two though (and in some cases it really is a direct connection, depending on the shooting). How direct do you need it to be? The whole thing comes back to racism, whether or not the road back is the short cut or the scenic route. The conversation IS about race and racism.

Many of the shootings, in my mind, are a survival response on the part of officers. There are some cases where general intolerance, insensitivity, and a predisposition to assume the worst has occurred (feel free to call this racism).

But again... don't place the burden of responsibility on officers at the point of the problem. In the line of duty, they will need to continue to protect themselves and barring the grotesque violations of power... if a suspect is shot while resisting arrest and behaving in a menacing manner... then that is on him.

An obscene amount of everyday cop/criminal interactions occur daily with very little public awareness- which means, for the overwhelming majority, calls are being handled professionally and competently. We debate the rare exceptions that become sensationalized.

All that aside, even if cops handled every situation perfectly, the problem I tried to illustrate still exists. If we get the cops to perform like superheroes... who do you set your sights on then when looking at the racial inequities?

You're ignoring police bias and prejudice that black people experience daily and just focusing on blacks being killed by cops (and trying to minimize it, even). Police create tension where there shouldn't be any, because of the prejudice. Police abuse their power and ignore probable cause with blacks at a much higher rate than with whites. White people only hear the stories that are sensationalized and don't hear the other ones. So now the push back response is the whole "well there's a few bad apples".

I don't think I have ignored it. When police routinely deal with black people in black neighbourhoods... their 'racist' attitude develops. If they didn't habitually deal with these people, their attitudes towards them would likely be different.

Look at what is happening with sentiments towards Muslim people right now. People are tiring of radical Islamic idiots and broad based characterizations are starting to occur regarding Muslims in general. Before 9-11 and recent horrific events, nobody really have two shits about Muslim people- there was nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you dealt in human nature. You don't understand how these attitudes develop?

The answer isn't better training for cops or sensitivity classes (although I'm in favour of both)... the answer is empowering black communities so that their days have the potential to be filled with productive and positive activities versus crime given no legitimate alternative (Carl's Junior isn't a legitimate alternative).

I do understand how they develop, and it's not just solely from dealing with blacks more often, over time. It's a combo of that, and other things. There are also racist attitudes from cops who don't deal with blacks very often. You're looking at some crime statistics and then making a conclusion from there. I'm hearing you say that the status quo with racist cops and toxic police departments is okay, based on your excuses, and that the change should start with black people.