Is it possible that If we don't address major ecological/biological and climate related topics like the rapid loss of biodiversity in our world and human induced climate change and continue to see our world filtered through, and skewed by, an Anthropocene viewpoint, will all of the other other things we talk about here will become irrelevant or at least comparatively so in the big picture?
The answer may well be found in Edward O Wilson's 2016 book, Half-Earth. Among the many and varied I've read, it's the best book/summation/proposal I've found regarding our post industrial condition and what we might consider doing to salvage much of what is left that we are quickly losing. I can't recommend it highly enough.
Good post There's awareness on many things but this subject is just not hammered enough Or at least people don't take it seriously enough but I don't mean all people but many
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I did get your point, just see it from a different perspective. And I think environmental issues are mentioned quite frequently in this forum.
There are many going through their own shit who don't necessarily mention it here. Myself included.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I did get your point, just see it from a different perspective. And I think environmental issues are mentioned quite frequently in this forum.
There are many going through their own shit who don't necessarily mention it here. Myself included.
Maybe the term true suffering is relative?
Let's get real...Nobody on here is suffering as much as the Panamian Golden Frog.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I did get your point, just see it from a different perspective. And I think environmental issues are mentioned quite frequently in this forum.
There are many going through their own shit who don't necessarily mention it here. Myself included.
Maybe the term true suffering is relative?
Let's get real...Nobody on here is suffering as much as the Panamian Golden Frog.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I see what you mean, I wonder is it because we have enough consensus that it makes the discussions less entertaining? Maybe somewhat, but that doesn't account for it entirely. To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization. I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life. Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face. I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise, vacation with pay. Want more of everything ready-made. Be afraid to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head. Not even your future will be a mystery any more. Your mind will be punched in a card and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something they will call you. When they want you to die for profit they will let you know. So, friends, every day do something that won't compute. Love the Lord. Love the world. Work for nothing. Take all that you have and be poor. Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace the flag. Hope to live in that free republic for which it stands. Give your approval to all you cannot understand. Praise ignorance, for what man has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers. Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias. Say that your main crop is the forest that you did not plant, that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested when they have rotted into the mold. Call that profit. Prophesy such returns. Put your faith in the two inches of humus that will build under the trees every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear close, and hear the faint chattering of the songs that are to come. Expect the end of the world. Laugh. Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful though you have considered all the facts. So long as women do not go cheap for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy a woman satisfied to bear a child? Will this disturb the sleep of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields. Lie down in the shade. Rest your head in her lap. Swear allegiance to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos can predict the motions of your mind, lose it. Leave it as a sign to mark the false trail, the way you didn't go.
Be like the fox who makes more tracks than necessary, some in the wrong direction. Practice resurrection.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I see what you mean, I wonder is it because we have enough consensus that it makes the discussions less entertaining? Maybe somewhat, but that doesn't account for it entirely. To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization. I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life. Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face. I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise, vacation with pay. Want more of everything ready-made. Be afraid to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head. Not even your future will be a mystery any more. Your mind will be punched in a card and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something they will call you. When they want you to die for profit they will let you know. So, friends, every day do something that won't compute. Love the Lord. Love the world. Work for nothing. Take all that you have and be poor. Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace the flag. Hope to live in that free republic for which it stands. Give your approval to all you cannot understand. Praise ignorance, for what man has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers. Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias. Say that your main crop is the forest that you did not plant, that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested when they have rotted into the mold. Call that profit. Prophesy such returns. Put your faith in the two inches of humus that will build under the trees every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear close, and hear the faint chattering of the songs that are to come. Expect the end of the world. Laugh. Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful though you have considered all the facts. So long as women do not go cheap for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy a woman satisfied to bear a child? Will this disturb the sleep of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields. Lie down in the shade. Rest your head in her lap. Swear allegiance to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos can predict the motions of your mind, lose it. Leave it as a sign to mark the false trail, the way you didn't go.
Be like the fox who makes more tracks than necessary, some in the wrong direction. Practice resurrection.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I did get your point, just see it from a different perspective. And I think environmental issues are mentioned quite frequently in this forum.
There are many going through their own shit who don't necessarily mention it here. Myself included.
Maybe the term true suffering is relative?
True suffering is relative, for sure. For example, when my ears got blasted and for quite a while any sound over 55 to 60 dB's was very painful, (sometimes even sounds louder than a whisper were painful) that was pain, not true suffering. As a result of that accident I lived in my vehicle at poverty level for a few years and that was damn inconvenient but not true suffering. Certainly not enough so to stop being an environmental activist. In fact, I had more time for activism during that time.
As for environmental issues being mentioned frequently, look at several thread pages. What percentage of them are related to environment. 5%, maybe? Probably less.
In any case, my point certainly is not to start an argument here (that's why I bail on this place from time to time- it becomes futile to argue endlessly) but rather just to throw the idea out with the hope that it picks up a few thumbs up here and there-- and not for my ego-- for the planet.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I see what you mean, I wonder is it because we have enough consensus that it makes the discussions less entertaining? Maybe somewhat, but that doesn't account for it entirely. To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization. I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life. Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face. I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise, vacation with pay. Want more of everything ready-made. Be afraid to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head. Not even your future will be a mystery any more. Your mind will be punched in a card and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something they will call you. When they want you to die for profit they will let you know. So, friends, every day do something that won't compute. Love the Lord. Love the world. Work for nothing. Take all that you have and be poor. Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace the flag. Hope to live in that free republic for which it stands. Give your approval to all you cannot understand. Praise ignorance, for what man has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers. Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias. Say that your main crop is the forest that you did not plant, that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested when they have rotted into the mold. Call that profit. Prophesy such returns. Put your faith in the two inches of humus that will build under the trees every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear close, and hear the faint chattering of the songs that are to come. Expect the end of the world. Laugh. Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful though you have considered all the facts. So long as women do not go cheap for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy a woman satisfied to bear a child? Will this disturb the sleep of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields. Lie down in the shade. Rest your head in her lap. Swear allegiance to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos can predict the motions of your mind, lose it. Leave it as a sign to mark the false trail, the way you didn't go.
Be like the fox who makes more tracks than necessary, some in the wrong direction. Practice resurrection.
I agree, Gambs that the younger generations hold much hope. We get most requests by far for back-to-the-land, nature and environmental books from the under 35 year old crowd. That always gives me much hope.
And much love for Wendell Berry. I met Mr Berry a few years back when he spoke in Sacramento. What a marvelous person! Smart, sweet, gentle, strong, humble, wise. One of my biggest heroes, for sure!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
B, no one is arguing here. I'm not. Are you taking my comments in that unintended way?
A bit ironic to see futility where there is none. I get bailing when you feel the urge to but please, read comments for what they are. Most are calm and reasonable, I think.
The percentages? Haven't done the math and don't care to, I just know there are many threads speaking to this issue. And, sometimes, they - in comments - come off as somewhat judgmental to other views - even in this thread. It's great if you got through what you did yet still made the time to do your thing. Others can't. I can't. Wish I could, but no. No apologies for that.
I am an admitted selfish motherfucker at times, kickass in ways, and not so much in others. I can live with that, and really don't care if others have a problem with it, or me.
B, no one is arguing here. I'm not. Are you taking my comments in that unintended way?
A bit ironic to see futility where there is none. I get bailing when you feel the urge to but please, read comments for what they are. Most are calm and reasonable, I think.
The percentages? Haven't done the math and don't care to, I just know there are many threads speaking to this issue. And, sometimes, they - in comments - come off as somewhat judgmental to other views - even in this thread. It's great if you got through what you did yet still made the time to do your thing. Others can't. I can't. Wish I could, but no. No apologies for that.
I am an admitted selfish motherfucker at times, kickass in ways, and not so much in others. I can live with that, and really don't care if others have a problem with it, or me.
No, not at all Hedo and I admit I would do well not to knee jerk react like it will go into argumentville. Hopefully that won't happen here!
We're all selfish to some degree and we all are both part of the problem and potentially part of the solution. We all like creature comforts (expect PJFan who wears Pearl Jam hair shirts and flagellates himself daily with a cat-o-nine-tails, God bless his soul) and certainly none of us are saints. In fact, it's good to sin a little now and again!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff. Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had. So I really don't care.
Glad Nelson Mandela didn't think that way at midlife
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
Yes, worth it, based on the synopsis alone A newsman (James Franciscus) works with a blind puzzle-solver (Karl Malden) to catch a killer with mixed-up chromosomes.
Yes, worth it, based on the synopsis alone A newsman (James Franciscus) works with a blind puzzle-solver (Karl Malden) to catch a killer with mixed-up chromosomes.
Karl freakin' Malden! Heck yeah!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
This is exactly why we have government. We worry about our day to day while they can use our tax dollars and regulation to tackle the bigger things in life.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
This is exactly why we have government. We worry about our day to day while they can use our tax dollars and regulation to tackle the bigger things in life.
This especially works if we take the time to let our gov. officials know what we want and they are qualified enough to know what's best for the world. That doesn't happen enough on either end.
Let's take climate change for example. Here's how Wilson opens the chapter on climate change:
"Having risen above all the biosphere, set to alter everything everywhere, the wrathful demon of climate change is our child that we left unrestrained for too long. By using the atmosphere as the carbon dump of the Industrial Revolution, and pressing on without caution, humanity has raised the concentration of greenhouse gasses , primarily carbon dioxide and methane, to a dangerous level." (Half Earth, p. 65)
Why did this happen? Because a) too many have refused to acknowledge for too long that this is what we have done and b) too few have spoken out about doing something to change the situation and c) too many of our governing officials have relented to big business which stands to lose money if they admit this is a problem.
We need more people to be aware and involved and we need to tell our governing people what we want which (I hope) is a world suited for both human and non-human life.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
This is exactly why we have government. We worry about our day to day while they can use our tax dollars and regulation to tackle the bigger things in life.
This especially works if we take the time to let our gov. officials know what we want and they are qualified enough to know what's best for the world. That doesn't happen enough on either end.
Let's take climate change for example. Here's how Wilson opens the chapter on climate change:
"Having risen above all the biosphere, set to alter everything everywhere, the wrathful demon of climate change is our child that we left unrestrained for too long. By using the atmosphere as the carbon dump of the Industrial Revolution, and pressing on without caution, humanity has raised the concentration of greenhouse gasses , primarily carbon dioxide and methane, to a dangerous level." (Half Earth, p. 65)
Why did this happen? Because a) too many have refused to acknowledge for too long that this is what we have done and b) too few have spoken out about doing something to change the situation and c) too many of our governing officials have relented to big business which stands to lose money if they admit this is a problem.
We need more people to be aware and involved and we need to tell our governing people what we want which (I hope) is a world suited for both human and non-human life.
On point Brian. That's why I don't buy the argument by some on here that they have enough trouble worrying about the day to day. That's an excuse. Voting is just one way to change things, activism is another. Putting our heads in the sand and saying "Well the problem is too big and I want to have fun while I'm still around" is the reason were in this mess to begin with, and completely irresponsible and a shitty thing to do to the next generations.
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
This is exactly why we have government. We worry about our day to day while they can use our tax dollars and regulation to tackle the bigger things in life.
This especially works if we take the time to let our gov. officials know what we want and they are qualified enough to know what's best for the world. That doesn't happen enough on either end.
Let's take climate change for example. Here's how Wilson opens the chapter on climate change:
"Having risen above all the biosphere, set to alter everything everywhere, the wrathful demon of climate change is our child that we left unrestrained for too long. By using the atmosphere as the carbon dump of the Industrial Revolution, and pressing on without caution, humanity has raised the concentration of greenhouse gasses , primarily carbon dioxide and methane, to a dangerous level." (Half Earth, p. 65)
Why did this happen? Because a) too many have refused to acknowledge for too long that this is what we have done and b) too few have spoken out about doing something to change the situation and c) too many of our governing officials have relented to big business which stands to lose money if they admit this is a problem.
We need more people to be aware and involved and we need to tell our governing people what we want which (I hope) is a world suited for both human and non-human life.
On point Brian. That's why I don't buy the argument by some on here that they have enough trouble worrying about the day to day. That's an excuse. Voting is just one way to change things, activism is another. Putting our heads in the sand and saying "Well the problem is too big and I want to have fun while I'm still around" is the reason were in this mess to begin with, and completely irresponsible and a shitty thing to do to the next generations.
Exactly, dignin. That might be the crux of the whole problem. That's what's happened with the boomer generation, for sure. Many of my peers think, "Well what the hell, I'm in my sixties or seventies. The earth will hold out 'till I'm gone. I don't need to do anything. I'm old, I owe the world nothing. I don't want to be bothered by any of that." And that's just on the human level. All the rest of the living world is subject to human apathy.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I used to be much more into activism than I am now... Nowadays I am no longer focused on changing the world, I only try to change myself. I hope that I can be an example for Simon, and maybe he will have the will and the means that I lack to change the world. Some days I feel like I need to do more, but, in all honesty, most days I feel like I am doing more on my isolated little farm than I ever did writing legislators, donating money, marching, or preaching to friends, family, and acquaintances. In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations. Fits well here.
I used to be much more into activism than I am now... Nowadays I am no longer focused on changing the world, I only try to change myself. I hope that I can be an example for Simon, and maybe he will have the will and the means that I lack to change the world. Some days I feel like I need to do more, but, in all honesty, most days I feel like I am doing more on my isolated little farm than I ever did writing legislators, donating money, marching, or preaching to friends, family, and acquaintances. In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations. Fits well here.
I doubt you can change the world, Gambs, and Simon isn't old enough to and I sure can't. It has to be a team effort. What kind of gets me is that so many say they don't have time for these issues and yet most of us here on AMT seem to have take a lot of time to discuss social issues not to mention aliens or Bruce Jenner's sex change or Bill Cosby's status as womanizer. Not sure how to twist that into an explanation.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you. Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.
It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.
But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!
But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!
I understand what you are saying, and in the grandest, biggest scale, I completely agree. When you scale it down to individuals who have true suffering to deal with, it's hard to imagine they will place the Panamanian Golden Frog on the same level importance as they struggles that keep them mired.
This is exactly why we have government. We worry about our day to day while they can use our tax dollars and regulation to tackle the bigger things in life.
This especially works if we take the time to let our gov. officials know what we want and they are qualified enough to know what's best for the world. That doesn't happen enough on either end.
Let's take climate change for example. Here's how Wilson opens the chapter on climate change:
"Having risen above all the biosphere, set to alter everything everywhere, the wrathful demon of climate change is our child that we left unrestrained for too long. By using the atmosphere as the carbon dump of the Industrial Revolution, and pressing on without caution, humanity has raised the concentration of greenhouse gasses , primarily carbon dioxide and methane, to a dangerous level." (Half Earth, p. 65)
Why did this happen? Because a) too many have refused to acknowledge for too long that this is what we have done and b) too few have spoken out about doing something to change the situation and c) too many of our governing officials have relented to big business which stands to lose money if they admit this is a problem.
We need more people to be aware and involved and we need to tell our governing people what we want which (I hope) is a world suited for both human and non-human life.
On point Brian. That's why I don't buy the argument by some on here that they have enough trouble worrying about the day to day. That's an excuse. Voting is just one way to change things, activism is another. Putting our heads in the sand and saying "Well the problem is too big and I want to have fun while I'm still around" is the reason were in this mess to begin with, and completely irresponsible and a shitty thing to do to the next generations.
I used to be much more into activism than I am now... Nowadays I am no longer focused on changing the world, I only try to change myself. I hope that I can be an example for Simon, and maybe he will have the will and the means that I lack to change the world. Some days I feel like I need to do more, but, in all honesty, most days I feel like I am doing more on my isolated little farm than I ever did writing legislators, donating money, marching, or preaching to friends, family, and acquaintances. In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations. Fits well here.
I doubt you can change the world, Gambs, and Simon isn't old enough to and I sure can't. It has to be a team effort. What kind of gets me is that so many say they don't have time for these issues and yet most of us here on AMT seem to have take a lot of time to discuss social issues not to mention aliens or Bruce Jenner's sex change or Bill Cosby's status as womanizer. Not sure how to twist that into an explanation.
Sure, he can change the world, we all do every day one person at a time. It's also called paying it forward. All we have to do is pick up a piece of litter and put it in the trash. Or sign an online petition you care about. I did today, it took me all of 30 seconds. Or recycle. Is it really that hard? No.
I used to be much more into activism than I am now... Nowadays I am no longer focused on changing the world, I only try to change myself. I hope that I can be an example for Simon, and maybe he will have the will and the means that I lack to change the world. Some days I feel like I need to do more, but, in all honesty, most days I feel like I am doing more on my isolated little farm than I ever did writing legislators, donating money, marching, or preaching to friends, family, and acquaintances. In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations. Fits well here.
I doubt you can change the world, Gambs, and Simon isn't old enough to and I sure can't. It has to be a team effort. What kind of gets me is that so many say they don't have time for these issues and yet most of us here on AMT seem to have take a lot of time to discuss social issues not to mention aliens or Bruce Jenner's sex change or Bill Cosby's status as womanizer. Not sure how to twist that into an explanation.
Am I reading this right? Because someone comments on social or lighter issues means there's no care about other topics to the satisfaction of a few? It's not necessarily about it being "not having time for X" but more about dealing with the other wondrous and overwhelming shit that life gives us.
So maybe no one here is owed an explanation. Shit, I talk about what I want. Have fun here or pontificate (or try to) or have heavy time, it's our own business. It's my business. No one else's.
I used to be much more into activism than I am now... Nowadays I am no longer focused on changing the world, I only try to change myself. I hope that I can be an example for Simon, and maybe he will have the will and the means that I lack to change the world. Some days I feel like I need to do more, but, in all honesty, most days I feel like I am doing more on my isolated little farm than I ever did writing legislators, donating money, marching, or preaching to friends, family, and acquaintances. In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations. Fits well here.
I doubt you can change the world, Gambs, and Simon isn't old enough to and I sure can't. It has to be a team effort. What kind of gets me is that so many say they don't have time for these issues and yet most of us here on AMT seem to have take a lot of time to discuss social issues not to mention aliens or Bruce Jenner's sex change or Bill Cosby's status as womanizer. Not sure how to twist that into an explanation.
Am I reading this right? Because someone comments on social or lighter issues means there's no care about other topics to the satisfaction of a few? It's not necessarily about it being "not having time for X" but more about dealing with the other wondrous and overwhelming shit that life gives us.
So maybe no one here is owed an explanation. Shit, I talk about what I want. Have fun here or pontificate (or try to) or have heavy time, it's our own business. It's my business. No one else's.
That's not twisting, at least to me.
(purple nurples are a different story though)
Am I reading this right? You want a purple nurple?
Comments
There are many going through their own shit who don't necessarily mention it here. Myself included.
Maybe the term true suffering is relative?
To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization.
I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol
Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life.
Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face.
I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto:
The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.
So, friends, every day do something
that won't compute. Love the Lord.
Love the world. Work for nothing.
Take all that you have and be poor.
Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace
the flag. Hope to live in that free
republic for which it stands.
Give your approval to all you cannot
understand. Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers.
Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias.
Say that your main crop is the forest
that you did not plant,
that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested
when they have rotted into the mold.
Call that profit. Prophesy such returns.
Put your faith in the two inches of humus
that will build under the trees
every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear
close, and hear the faint chattering
of the songs that are to come.
Expect the end of the world. Laugh.
Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful
though you have considered all the facts.
So long as women do not go cheap
for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy
a woman satisfied to bear a child?
Will this disturb the sleep
of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields.
Lie down in the shade. Rest your head
in her lap. Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn't go.
Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection.
Ergo, by that logic, there must be a lot of true suffering going on with AMT folks because generally we don't discuss environment much here relative to other subjects. But I think my point is lost or sunk here. Do I at least get a silver star for trying? LOL.
I see what you mean, I wonder is it because we have enough consensus that it makes the discussions less entertaining? Maybe somewhat, but that doesn't account for it entirely.
To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization.
I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol
Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life.
Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face.
I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto:
The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.
So, friends, every day do something
that won't compute. Love the Lord.
Love the world. Work for nothing.
Take all that you have and be poor.
Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace
the flag. Hope to live in that free
republic for which it stands.
Give your approval to all you cannot
understand. Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers.
Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias.
Say that your main crop is the forest
that you did not plant,
that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested
when they have rotted into the mold.
Call that profit. Prophesy such returns.
Put your faith in the two inches of humus
that will build under the trees
every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear
close, and hear the faint chattering
of the songs that are to come.
Expect the end of the world. Laugh.
Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful
though you have considered all the facts.
So long as women do not go cheap
for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy
a woman satisfied to bear a child?
Will this disturb the sleep
of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields.
Lie down in the shade. Rest your head
in her lap. Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn't go.
Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection.
As for environmental issues being mentioned frequently, look at several thread pages. What percentage of them are related to environment. 5%, maybe? Probably less.
In any case, my point certainly is not to start an argument here (that's why I bail on this place from time to time- it becomes futile to argue endlessly) but rather just to throw the idea out with the hope that it picks up a few thumbs up here and there-- and not for my ego-- for the planet.
To preface this next part, I mean no disrespect to anyone here, and even if many of you are included in this observation directly, I still don't mean it in a judgemental way and I know it is a generalization.
I think that the "generation" most heavily represented here (and in media and life in general) is the generation of humans that are the most disconnected from the environment yet. I am speaking of those from age 40 to 60, roughly. The economy was just super stable and technology was growing so fast, so many of the things which keep us tethered to the natural world were rendered unnecessary or obsolete. Growing and preserving, mechanical repairs, building, hunting, fishing and enjoying the woods, appreciation of the seasons, living outside the city...all things that were held by one generation and dropped by the next. The growth of the cities and the urban/suburbanation of the country has so much to do with it. I often feel like I am the only poster on these boards that lives anywhere near the solitude that was once a near-universal experience for humanity. I would bet my farm there are people here who think that a city of a half million people is a small town lol
Of course many would jump to millenials, but those of you who are older truly wouldn't believe how common and huge a trend it is for "hipsters" and many others to be getting back to nature. Hikers, yakers, climbers, and most importantly (to me) homesteaders, farmers, and gardeners. The skills and pursuits that were dropped in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are being picked back up and many are heading back out of the cities to find a different, simpler way of life.
Then again, many of them are closer to their devices than they are to any flesh and blood people in their life, so maybe not.
All I know for sure Brian, is that many, many of us under 35 care deeply about the environment on a micro and macro scale. Personally, I live so deeply in the minutiae of natural life that I can scarcely lift my eyes to the biggest problems we face.
I feel like that shares a kinship with a Wendell Berry style of perspective: "Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red (black in my case) berries in a cup."
It is berry season, an hour and a half each day or 3 hours every other day to harvest what the world gives freely, and with deep love, to those who are open to reaping. Rain has been sparse this year, but life is hanging on. It was the year of the 17 year cicadas and the pressure on our fruit trees and berry bushes is just now letting up as the din subsides. The days of spinach, peas, mint, nesting barnswallows and beautiful dames rocket are passing into the days of beets, berries, bumblebees, baby bunnies, Indian paintbrush and ox-eye daisies. Soon these will pass too, and it will be the time of pesky yellow-jackets, fresh tomatoes, peppers and squash, cabbage and potatoes and onions, goldenrod and wild mustard will make the world yellow and pokeberries will accent it with the deepest of purples. It is a wonderful world out there.
Manifesto:
The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
by Wendell Berry
Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.
So, friends, every day do something
that won't compute. Love the Lord.
Love the world. Work for nothing.
Take all that you have and be poor.
Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace
the flag. Hope to live in that free
republic for which it stands.
Give your approval to all you cannot
understand. Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers.
Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias.
Say that your main crop is the forest
that you did not plant,
that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested
when they have rotted into the mold.
Call that profit. Prophesy such returns.
Put your faith in the two inches of humus
that will build under the trees
every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear
close, and hear the faint chattering
of the songs that are to come.
Expect the end of the world. Laugh.
Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful
though you have considered all the facts.
So long as women do not go cheap
for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy
a woman satisfied to bear a child?
Will this disturb the sleep
of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields.
Lie down in the shade. Rest your head
in her lap. Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn't go.
Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection.
I agree, Gambs that the younger generations hold much hope. We get most requests by far for back-to-the-land, nature and environmental books from the under 35 year old crowd. That always gives me much hope.
And much love for Wendell Berry. I met Mr Berry a few years back when he spoke in Sacramento. What a marvelous person! Smart, sweet, gentle, strong, humble, wise. One of my biggest heroes, for sure!
A bit ironic to see futility where there is none. I get bailing when you feel the urge to but please, read comments for what they are. Most are calm and reasonable, I think.
The percentages? Haven't done the math and don't care to, I just know there are many threads speaking to this issue. And, sometimes, they - in comments - come off as somewhat judgmental to other views - even in this thread. It's great if you got through what you did yet still made the time to do your thing. Others can't. I can't. Wish I could, but no. No apologies for that.
I am an admitted selfish motherfucker at times, kickass in ways, and not so much in others. I can live with that, and really don't care if others have a problem with it, or me.
We're all selfish to some degree and we all are both part of the problem and potentially part of the solution. We all like creature comforts (expect PJFan who wears Pearl Jam hair shirts and flagellates himself daily with a cat-o-nine-tails, God bless his soul) and certainly none of us are saints. In fact, it's good to sin a little now and again!
A newsman (James Franciscus) works with a blind puzzle-solver (Karl Malden) to catch a killer with mixed-up chromosomes.
Let's take climate change for example. Here's how Wilson opens the chapter on climate change:
"Having risen above all the biosphere, set to alter everything everywhere, the wrathful demon of climate change is our child that we left unrestrained for too long. By using the atmosphere as the carbon dump of the Industrial Revolution, and pressing on without caution, humanity has raised the concentration of greenhouse gasses , primarily carbon dioxide and methane, to a dangerous level." (Half Earth, p. 65)
Why did this happen? Because a) too many have refused to acknowledge for too long that this is what we have done and b) too few have spoken out about doing something to change the situation and c) too many of our governing officials have relented to big business which stands to lose money if they admit this is a problem.
We need more people to be aware and involved and we need to tell our governing people what we want which (I hope) is a world suited for both human and non-human life.
In my 20s I came up with a saying that I stuck with... No excuses, just explanations.
Fits well here.
So maybe no one here is owed an explanation. Shit, I talk about what I want. Have fun here or pontificate (or try to) or have heavy time, it's our own business. It's my business. No one else's.
That's not twisting, at least to me.
(purple nurples are a different story though)