Are social issues nearly as important as issues like biodiversity and climate?

brianlux

Is it possible that If we don't address major ecological/biological and climate related topics like the rapid loss of biodiversity in our world and human induced climate change and continue to see our world filtered through, and skewed by, an Anthropocene viewpoint, will all of the other other things we talk about here will become irrelevant or at least comparatively so in the big picture?

The answer may well be found in Edward O Wilson's 2016 book, Half-Earth. Among the many and varied I've read, it's the best book/summation/proposal I've found regarding our post industrial condition and what we might consider doing to salvage much of what is left that we are quickly losing. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

The social issues are important for different reasons.

I've begun to think that human life is finite. The earth could never possibly sustain mankind for eternity and even if we did... a massive chunk of rock would eventually slam into is and end things in a more dramatic fashion.

So... as responsible as I am urge everyone to be... I sometimes feel drastic steps will only have the effect of squeezing out a couple extra generations before the meltdown occurs. If that is the end goal then fair enough, but to compromise way of life to attain that might not be worth it.

The gift we have been afforded is ultimately a fluke of nature. The next inhabitants of the earth won't think too much about us as they enjoy their ride.

polaris_x

the planet is important only to people who care about the world as a whole inclusive of all life ... most people do not ... there will be significant suffering as we have already seen but people will continue to ignore the cause ... greed and stupidity ...

hedonist

I believe it's all relative.

Illegal for a woman to have an abortion may likely be more important in that time vs smog.

It's just not either / or.

...or about greed and stupidity.

I'm neither greedy nor an idiot for focusing on other issues based on the usual shit that happens in life.

brianlux

If anyone gets a chance to read Half-Earth, I would love to hear your reaction to it. If I could, I would buy copies for anyone interested and give them away.

polaris_x

greed and stupidity is the primary cause of our environmental problems ... it's not people are greedy or stupid because they care about other things ...

PJfanwillneverleave1

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

brianlux

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

Not sure if by "that stuff" you mean social issues or ecological/biological and climate related issues but either way, I pretty much agree. I mean, how many of us here have made the kind of impact on the world the way the likes of people like Martin Luther King, Morris Dees, Mother Teresa, or Edward O. Wilson, Edward Abbey or Paul Watson have? None here that I know of. But major movers and shakers need us, the Unknown/Unheralded Many to make changes happen. Nothing wrong with being a small part of a bigger whole. My ego, at least, does not require more than that.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

Ugh, that's pathetic.

Free

PJ_Soul said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

Ugh, that's pathetic.

Agreed. But for a resident shit-stirrer? I expect nothing less. Don't you?

BTW - I have no problems with PJfan.

brianlux

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

Ugh, that's pathetic.

Agreed. But for a resident shit-stirrer? I expect nothing less. Don't you?

BTW - I have no problems with PJfan.

Well, someone has to be the "fly in the ointment".

Hey, PJF, don't be offended- it's a phrase Edward Abbey used to describe himself. It might be seen as a compliment!

brianlux

But back on topic. Can anyone tell me why they might see social issues as equal or superior in importance to environmental issues? I'd like to understand that kind of thinking because it makes no sense to me. I would equate it to someone worrying about saving their collectibles in a burning house in which the kids are still in a room without windows or doors.

Free

I don't consider them as superior, I pretty much view environmental issues a social issue. We do have to live on this planet as one after all.

But it doesn't matter anyway when you've got establishment politics disregarding all of it anyway. Money and power takes precedence.

hedonist

brianlux said:

But back on topic. Can anyone tell me why they might see social issues as equal or superior in importance to environmental issues? I'd like to understand that kind of thinking because it makes no sense to me. I would equate it to someone worrying about saving their collectibles in a burning house in which the kids are still in a room without windows or doors.

I thought what I said up there made sense...to me, anyway. I do get that some put environment above all else and that's great; I simply don't.

PJfanwillneverleave1

brianlux said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

As time goes by I truly care less and less about that stuff.
Nothing my small self being at midlife will change or alter the "impact" humans have had.
So I really don't care.

Ugh, that's pathetic.

Agreed. But for a resident shit-stirrer? I expect nothing less. Don't you?

BTW - I have no problems with PJfan.

Well, someone has to be the "fly in the ointment".

Hey, PJF, don't be offended- it's a phrase Edward Abbey used to describe himself. It might be seen as a compliment!

I love this place!

rgambs

The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you.
Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.

It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you.
Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.

It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.

Yet we care about having environmentally friendly paint.

hedonist

rgambs said:

The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you.
Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.

It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.

Great post, gambo - although the last part doesn't necessarily make us foolish or myopic. We do (and focus on) what we need to at the time.

It's not tantamount to not caring about other issues, but about them not being as important in the overall, perhaps selfish, scheme of our lives.

brianlux

rgambs said:

The way I see it, you sort of have the analogy backward. Worrying about the environment when you can't afford food or can't marry and direct the medical care of the person you love deeply is like worrying about painting the eaves on a house that is burning down around you.
Social and socioeconomic issues have direct, tangible effects on a person's well-being and happiness. Environmental issues are a distant concern, even with changing climate and desperately shrinking biodiversity, the time has not yet come when those issues will impact us all in painful, unforgettable ways.

It sucks, we are a short-sighted race of fools.

But about the rest of animal life? Are we the only ones who count? Anthropocentric thinking only sees life, our planet and the universe from a human perspective. Biocentric thinking sees all of it as all encompassing, all valuable and all interconnected. Many people think we are more important or above all other life. The irony is that such a limited viewpoint is actually counter productive to our own well being!

But don't listen to me, Gambs. I really do encourage you to check out E. O. Wilson's book!

hedonist

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

BS44325

We're here for a good time. Not a long time. So have a good time. The sun can't shine eveyday.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist said:

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

Hedo...

What other animal on the planet carries the burden of the earth on its shoulders? What other animal concerns itself with the fortunes of other animals? We have illusions of greatness sometimes. At the very core of our existence is a need to survive and prosper- we're no different from any other species. Environmentalism is more or less guilt for realizing the impact our activities are having on the earth.

We should be concerned with our impact, but not at such a degree that we sacrifice any quality of life that makes the gift of life such a great gift.

We'd be framing if we think we will ever move to local economies and all the other items necessary to reverse course from the critical threshold we will someday meet. All individual efforts amount to drops on the bucket.

tempo_n_groove

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

hedonist said:

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

Hedo...

What other animal on the planet carries the burden of the earth on its shoulders? What other animal concerns itself with the fortunes of other animals? We have illusions of greatness sometimes. At the very core of our existence is a need to survive and prosper- we're no different from any other species. Environmentalism is more or less guilt for realizing the impact our activities are having on the earth.

We should be concerned with our impact, but not at such a degree that we sacrifice any quality of life that makes the gift of life such a great gift.

We'd be framing if we think we will ever move to local economies and all the other items necessary to reverse course from the critical threshold we will someday meet. All individual efforts amount to drops on the bucket.

Every drop will eventually fill that bucket. Eventually you will have "buckets". Then it will be common place where people actually care.

I am worried though of the pendulum swinging again.

Conservatism is coming in a big way and all the environmentalism will be cast aside.

PJfanwillneverleave1

The pendulum swings....

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

hedonist said:

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

Hedo...

What other animal on the planet carries the burden of the earth on its shoulders? What other animal concerns itself with the fortunes of other animals? We have illusions of greatness sometimes. At the very core of our existence is a need to survive and prosper- we're no different from any other species. Environmentalism is more or less guilt for realizing the impact our activities are having on the earth.

We should be concerned with our impact, but not at such a degree that we sacrifice any quality of life that makes the gift of life such a great gift.

We'd be framing if we think we will ever move to local economies and all the other items necessary to reverse course from the critical threshold we will someday meet. All individual efforts amount to drops on the bucket.

You're a good man, Thirty.

Sometimes life's circumstances put what's more important to others in the back lane, in our own realm. We have to.

BS44325

tempo_n_groove said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

hedonist said:

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

Hedo...

What other animal on the planet carries the burden of the earth on its shoulders? What other animal concerns itself with the fortunes of other animals? We have illusions of greatness sometimes. At the very core of our existence is a need to survive and prosper- we're no different from any other species. Environmentalism is more or less guilt for realizing the impact our activities are having on the earth.

We should be concerned with our impact, but not at such a degree that we sacrifice any quality of life that makes the gift of life such a great gift.

We'd be framing if we think we will ever move to local economies and all the other items necessary to reverse course from the critical threshold we will someday meet. All individual efforts amount to drops on the bucket.

Every drop will eventually fill that bucket. Eventually you will have "buckets". Then it will be common place where people actually care.

I am worried though of the pendulum swinging again.

Conservatism is coming in a big way and all the environmentalism will be cast aside.

This makes the incorrect assumption that conservatives don't care about the environment. We care a lot. We just don't think it makes sense to pass ineffective economy damaging bills based on nothing more then emotion.

brianlux

BS44325 said:

We're here for a good time. Not a long time. So have a good time. The sun can't shine eveyday.

Reminds me of something Kurt Vonnegut Jr once said: "We're here to fart around."

He's also the guy who once wrote:

brianlux

hedonist said:

I tried, I give up!

Apologies if my prior input came off as....something unworthy? Guessing not a decent contribution.

Hope the rest of this conversation continues to be productive and constructive.

Shall be reading.

We're all worthy, just missed your post is all. Sorry.

hedonist said:

I believe it's all relative.

Illegal for a woman to have an abortion may likely be more important in that time vs smog.

It's just not either / or.

...or about greed and stupidity.

I'm neither greedy nor an idiot for focusing on other issues based on the usual shit that happens in life.

In the moment everything is relative. If my hair is on fire, I'm going to be more concerned about that than the loss of another species. What I'm suggesting is that in the big picture, if there are no mega fauna anymore there are no people and if there are no people there are no social issues and so, therefor, in the big picture, environmental issues are more important than social issues. Seems logical doesn't it? I'm always a bit surprised to see resistance to this premise.

Why, just look at these AMT forums. What gets talked about the most? War, firearms, racism, killings, riots, politics, etc. All very important issues, to be sure! But no more people means no more war, firearms, racism, killings, riots, politics, etc. Maybe we want to end those things by ending ourselves. If so, something's pretty fucked up in our collective psyche. But I think we can do better than that.

BS44325

brianlux said:

BS44325 said:

We're here for a good time. Not a long time. So have a good time. The sun can't shine eveyday.

Reminds me of something Kurt Vonnegut Jr once said: "We're here to fart around."

He's also the guy who once wrote:

Saved the earth from what?

BS44325

A solar minimus is likely upon us

http://nypost.com/2016/06/29/why-the-sun-going-blank-means-a-game-of-thrones-like-winter-is-coming/

And there is not much anyone on here can do about it.

JWPearl

brianlux said:

Is it possible that If we don't address major ecological/biological and climate related topics like the rapid loss of biodiversity in our world and human induced climate change and continue to see our world filtered through, and skewed by, an Anthropocene viewpoint, will all of the other other things we talk about here will become irrelevant or at least comparatively so in the big picture?

The answer may well be found in Edward O Wilson's 2016 book, Half-Earth. Among the many and varied I've read, it's the best book/summation/proposal I've found regarding our post industrial condition and what we might consider doing to salvage much of what is left that we are quickly losing. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Good post
There's awareness on many things but this subject is just not hammered enough
Or at least people don't take it seriously enough but I don't mean all people but many