Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited June 2016
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    GF never did clarify if be is proposing to deport American citizens if the parents are not.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited June 2016
    Degeneratefk said:

    GF never did clarify if be is proposing to deport American citizens if the parents are not.

    Yes he did. He explicitly said that he would want that, up there when he replied to goldrush's questions. He said he thinks they should be sent to their parental country of origin (shocking, I know).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    ISIS isn't a geographical entity/country, which is stated very specifically.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    PJ_Soul said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    GF never did clarify if be is proposing to deport American citizens if the parents are not.

    Yes he did. He explicitly said that he would want that, up there when he replied to goldrush's questions. He said he thinks they should be sent to their parental country of origin (shocking, I know).
    Ok, I did not see that. Not surprised.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited June 2016
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    I'm not saying any of that (i never even mentioned commonalities). I am saying that just because the guy said he has an allegience to ISIS it doesn't mean he has anything to do with ISIS. He never had any contact with them, ISIS had never heard of him, he wasn't in contact with a single member of ISIS as far as I have ever heard. I am saying that just saying the words "I support ISIS!" and then committing a crime is not grounds for the US government to take away your citizenship (i am not even sure that actuallybeing connected to ISIS could do that, since i don't think ISIS can be considered a foreign government. ISIS certainly isn't acknowledge by the US as a government).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
    I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.

    It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    Thirty, you don't even seem to be talking about the same thing I am.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    ISIS isn't a geographical entity/country, which is stated very specifically.
    I'm not too sure why I got this response? I never implied what you're speaking against.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty, you don't even seem to be talking about the same thing I am.

    Well that wouldn't be the first time!

    It's probably me.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • goldrush
    goldrush everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,790
    edited June 2016
    Godfather. said:

    goldrush said:

    Godfather. said:

    the only thing we can do is rid ourselves of these people in our country.

    Godfather.


    As this was missed last time, and as you keep bringing this 'solution' up, I'd genuinely be interested to see how you would answer these questions...
    goldrush said:

    Godfather. said:


    how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

    Godfather.

    Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:

    1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this

    2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?

    3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"

    4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?
    1) back to the country of their parental origin.
    2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket.
    3) look at my answer for question # 1
    4) any person who enters the United States illegally.

    ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?

    Godfather.
    What else have I got? Ok...

    1. American-born Muslims who have children. If the child is also raised Muslim, but the 'country of their parental origin' is America, where are you going to send them? How many generations are you going to go back?

    2. If you're happy to sink the US into an economic recession by funding the cost then so be it. How do you decide who can afford to pay their own way?

    3. See my response to your answer 1

    4. Let's pick a random example then. I know, what about Italian-Americans who migrated there and have caused trouble in the past? Specifically, maybe the Mafia, Godfather? Depending on question 1 and how far back you want to go, everyone in the US that is not of Native American descent is an immigrant, no?
    Post edited by goldrush on
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  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.

    Godfather.
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,177
    ignorance is bliss...
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    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    Godfather. said:

    everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.

    Godfather.

    They apply directly to your statement.... I think maybe you just found the questions to uncomfortable to answer.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    PJ_Soul said:

    Godfather. said:

    everybody want's to add to a statement and you have done so as well, your "what if" questions and comments do not apply to my statement so keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.

    Godfather.

    They apply directly to your statement.... I think maybe you just found the questions to uncomfortable to answer.
    no true.

    Godfather.

  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
    I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.

    It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
    He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)

    Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    myoung321 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
    I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.

    It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
    He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)

    Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
    Ah yes, sports.
    When you got nothin...
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    myoung321 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

    i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

    I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.
    Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.
    No, I could also go out and fire a gun into a crowded room and scream my allegiance to ISIS while doing it and it still wouldn't have any meaning besides displaying how insane I obviously am and to suggest that I have some fucked up ideas. You need actual ties to the group for it to mean anything.
    You mean like sharing the same religious ideologies? Like those kind of commonalities?

    And, from what I gathered... he had plead allegiance to the group then committed the crime shortly afterwards. You, in your attempt to completely sever the relative factors, make it sound as if- right in the throes of his violence- he scratched his head for a second to think about why he was doing it and spit something random out.

    Come on, man.
    i could be wrong, but didn't he make that declaration in a phone call DURING the crime? i know he made several calls during the crime.
    I had thought I read he had made his proclamation on line beforehand. I could be wrong too.

    It doesn't really change much either way in my mind. ISIS is a mindset that he chose to be associated with given the fundamental framework that existed as common ground.
    He pledged allegiance to ISIS, Hamas, & Al Qeuda.... (they hate each other)

    Which is nuts in it's self.. like saying your a fan of the Yankees and Red Sox
    Ah yes, sports.
    When you got nothin...
    It's an analogy, representing how confused he was. And it's a good one. The only thing we can assume is you don't understand how ISIS and Al Qaeda are diametrically opposed in the Muslim world.

    It's like saying you are a Shia AND a Sunni. Does that help?

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