Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL

jnimhaoileoin

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

In my case, I wanted to be 100% sure of what he's suggesting before I judged him accordingly in my mind and allowed such judgement to colour any future interactions. Also, yes, I am perpetually determined to think the best of everyone and I do struggle sometimes to accept that other people can hold opinions which I find to be abhorrent. I have difficulty wrapping my head around it and sometimes need a little convincing that some people should just be written off in that regard

PJ_Soul

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

In my case, I wanted to be 100% sure of what he's suggesting before I judged him accordingly in my mind and allowed such judgement to colour any future interactions. Also, yes, I am perpetually determined to think the best of everyone and I do struggle sometimes to accept that other people can hold opinions which I find to be abhorrent. I have difficulty wrapping my head around it and sometimes need a little convincing that some people should just be written off in that regard

Yeah, it took me a while too - I kept assuming there must be some kind of qualifier in there that made it not so awful... but I finally get it.
(Just so you know, I more meant that for McGruff. Sorry, I know your post was the last one, I just meant to agree with your response to him )

HughFreakingDillon

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

In my case, I wanted to be 100% sure of what he's suggesting before I judged him accordingly in my mind and allowed such judgement to colour any future interactions. Also, yes, I am perpetually determined to think the best of everyone and I do struggle sometimes to accept that other people can hold opinions which I find to be abhorrent. I have difficulty wrapping my head around it and sometimes need a little convincing that some people should just be written off in that regard

he has said unequivocally 'I want them all out'. black and white.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

GF...

You are way off base, man.

You've taken a disturbing turn for the worse. As much as you tried to justify your opinion as legitimate as anyone else's... it's not. It's extremism at best and saddening to hear from you.

I've defended you many times and vouched for what I think is your true character, but this latest revelation is indefensible. I still like you, but I hate your viewpoint.

ummm I'll give that some thought, thank you.

Godfather.

Peace brother!

if you and I sat and talked about the muslim and gun rights in our country you would probably find that I'm a little flexible, here on the train is a little hard to be flexible because folks take what you type and add to it .....so forgive me for having a little fun with it, yeah I know that's bad but in real life that's me, my experience with muslims is very limited I never met a muslim who wasn't rude towards me not that I've met a lot but that along with news and social media..I'll tell ya they don't seem all that inviting.
anyway man have a great weekend and be safe.

Godfather.

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

GF...

You are way off base, man.

You've taken a disturbing turn for the worse. As much as you tried to justify your opinion as legitimate as anyone else's... it's not. It's extremism at best and saddening to hear from you.

I've defended you many times and vouched for what I think is your true character, but this latest revelation is indefensible. I still like you, but I hate your viewpoint.

ummm I'll give that some thought, thank you.

Godfather.

Peace brother!

if you and I sat and talked about the muslim and gun rights in our country you would probably find that I'm a little flexible, here on the train is a little hard to be flexible because folks take what you type and add to it .....so forgive me for having a little fun with it, yeah I know that's bad but in real life that's me, my experience with muslims is very limited I never met a muslim who wasn't rude towards me not that I've met a lot but that along with news and social media..I'll tell ya they don't seem all that inviting.
anyway man have a great weekend and be safe.

Godfather.

You've never met a muslim that wasn't rude to you?

Do you require every person that you meet to announce their religious beliefs?

jnimhaoileoin

The only Muslim I know personally happens to be my best friend, so I guess you could say I'm coming from a different viewpoint!

jnimhaoileoin

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

In my case, I wanted to be 100% sure of what he's suggesting before I judged him accordingly in my mind and allowed such judgement to colour any future interactions. Also, yes, I am perpetually determined to think the best of everyone and I do struggle sometimes to accept that other people can hold opinions which I find to be abhorrent. I have difficulty wrapping my head around it and sometimes need a little convincing that some people should just be written off in that regard

Yeah, it took me a while too - I kept assuming there must be some kind of qualifier in there that made it not so awful... but I finally get it.
(Just so you know, I more meant that for McGruff. Sorry, I know your post was the last one, I just meant to agree with your response to him )

No worries, was still a reasonable question for me too

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

GF...

You are way off base, man.

You've taken a disturbing turn for the worse. As much as you tried to justify your opinion as legitimate as anyone else's... it's not. It's extremism at best and saddening to hear from you.

I've defended you many times and vouched for what I think is your true character, but this latest revelation is indefensible. I still like you, but I hate your viewpoint.

ummm I'll give that some thought, thank you.

Godfather.

Peace brother!

if you and I sat and talked about the muslim and gun rights in our country you would probably find that I'm a little flexible, here on the train is a little hard to be flexible because folks take what you type and add to it .....so forgive me for having a little fun with it, yeah I know that's bad but in real life that's me, my experience with muslims is very limited I never met a muslim who wasn't rude towards me not that I've met a lot but that along with news and social media..I'll tell ya they don't seem all that inviting.
anyway man have a great weekend and be safe.

Godfather.

Keep reflecting so you can get yourself to a better place!

Just food for thought: is it possible that your preconceived notions for 'Muslim' people might have something to do with your experiences with them? In other words... do you think that your beliefs might betray you (body language, tone of voice, the things you might say, etc.) and these betrayals might limit the quality of interaction you have with the Muslim people you have met?

I have to be honest... every Muslim person I have come to know has been excellent. As you know with my somewhat persistent jabs at Christianity... I'm not big on religion so I won't profess to say I respect their faith, but as human beings... they've been top shelf.

I bristle at the notion that the friends of the Muslim variety I have come to meet are remotely attached to the terror organizations we currently deal with. Just as I don't lump all Christians into the 'Westboro' mold... I'd never mistake good Muslim people for ISIS radicals. You shouldn't either.

Godfather.

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

pretty sure ? that's an ASSumption ? so you really have no idea is what your saying then right ?
HAHHHAHHAHHHAHHA just messing with you.

Godfather.

josevolution

Godfather. said:

josevolution said:

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

the only thing we can do is rid ourselves of these people in our country.

Godfather.

As this was missed last time, and as you keep bringing this 'solution' up, I'd genuinely be interested to see how you would answer these questions...

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:

1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this

2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?

3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"

4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?

The Hispanics all of'em ..

so Jose you're good with illegal entry into the United States or just for Hispanic's ?

Godfather.

No I agree with immigration reform and secure borders , but to round up 11 million or what ever the number and get rid of all Muslims is absurd !

pjhawks

Godfather. said:

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

the only thing we can do is rid ourselves of these people in our country.

Godfather.

As this was missed last time, and as you keep bringing this 'solution' up, I'd genuinely be interested to see how you would answer these questions...

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:

1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this

2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?

3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"

4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?

1) back to the country of their parental origin.
2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket.
3) look at my answer for question # 1
4) any person who enters the United States illegally.

ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?

Godfather.

so incredibly ironic from the guy who is worried about the government taking away his rights (his 2nd amendment rights) to suggest taking away the rights of millions of 'other' people based on their religion. utterly absurd.

rgambs

pjhawks said:

Godfather. said:

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

the only thing we can do is rid ourselves of these people in our country.

Godfather.

As this was missed last time, and as you keep bringing this 'solution' up, I'd genuinely be interested to see how you would answer these questions...

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:

1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this

2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?

3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"

4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?

1) back to the country of their parental origin.
2) yes, and worth every penny but those who have money will be buying their own ticket.
3) look at my answer for question # 1
4) any person who enters the United States illegally.

ahhhhh that was fun ! what else ya got ?

Godfather.

so incredibly ironic from the guy who is worried about the government taking away his rights (his 2nd amendment rights) to suggest taking away the rights of millions of 'other' people based on their religion. utterly absurd.

Godfather.

Gern Blansten said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

GF...

You are way off base, man.

You've taken a disturbing turn for the worse. As much as you tried to justify your opinion as legitimate as anyone else's... it's not. It's extremism at best and saddening to hear from you.

I've defended you many times and vouched for what I think is your true character, but this latest revelation is indefensible. I still like you, but I hate your viewpoint.

ummm I'll give that some thought, thank you.

Godfather.

Peace brother!

if you and I sat and talked about the muslim and gun rights in our country you would probably find that I'm a little flexible, here on the train is a little hard to be flexible because folks take what you type and add to it .....so forgive me for having a little fun with it, yeah I know that's bad but in real life that's me, my experience with muslims is very limited I never met a muslim who wasn't rude towards me not that I've met a lot but that along with news and social media..I'll tell ya they don't seem all that inviting.
anyway man have a great weekend and be safe.

Godfather.

You've never met a muslim that wasn't rude to you?

Do you require every person that you meet to announce their religious beliefs?

when I meet people..anybody ! I treat them as I expect to be treated in return but if you treat me badly that's a problem you'll end up dealing with eventually.


Godfather.

Godfather.

josevolution said:

Godfather. said:

josevolution said:

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

the only thing we can do is rid ourselves of these people in our country.

Godfather.

As this was missed last time, and as you keep bringing this 'solution' up, I'd genuinely be interested to see how you would answer these questions...

goldrush said:

Godfather. said:

how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... Suppose that the US gave in to all the hate-filled propaganda being thrown around about deporting Muslims:

1. Where do you suggest 3 million people should go? Before you say "back to where they came from", remember you are also including American-born Muslims in this

2. How do you propose they get there? Will the US foot the bill for mass migration?

3. If (again, devil's advocate), all 3 million people are a danger to the rest of us, what gives the US the right to force that problem onto another country? "We have decided that these people are dangerous, they're your problem now. See ya!"

4. Who's next? Once the Muslims are all gone, who do you deport next? How many others have to go for you to create your perfect country?

The Hispanics all of'em ..

so Jose you're good with illegal entry into the United States or just for Hispanic's ?

Godfather.

No I agree with immigration reform and secure borders , but to round up 11 million or what ever the number and get rid of all Muslims is absurd !

probably so....if they did the same back ground checks on muslims as they do for a weapons lic. we may not have this problem LOL !!!

Godfather.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html
Causes of Citizenship Loss
U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:

Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state;
Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions;
Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state;
Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war");
Conviction for an act of treason.

mcgruff10

I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html
Causes of Citizenship Loss
U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:

Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state;
Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions;
Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state;
Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war");
Conviction for an act of treason.

I am not sure a terrorist group counts as a foreign state or its political subdivisions.... would be an interesting debate, but I don't know how that would hold up in court. I guess it would depend on the terrorist group. If it has taken over a government or has declared itself as one in a region during war, then I assume it would likely apply, but otherwise, I'm not so sure. But if it did count, I wonder if that would include American terrorist groups? I assume American terrorists get to stay Americans no matter what.
These rules more seem written for the cold war era, when people would do shit like defect to Russia. I wonder when they were written.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

mcgruff10 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it's so ironic to me that people who stand so staunchly behind their second ammendment rights don't seem to give a fuck about the first.

I don't recall the 1st am saying anything about the rights of non Americans.

Godfather.

and in your eyes someone who is born in America and has never lived in any other country....can be designated a non-American, simply because their parents were born in a different country?

I m pretty sure when you pledge your allegiance to a terrorist organization that is at war with the United states you instantly lose your citizenship.

I'm pretty sure he's not suggesting only deporting those who have pledged allegiance to a terrorist organisation

I'm more than pretty sure of the same. GF has very clearly indicated multiple times that he doesn't want Muslims in America. He didn't just mean non-Americans, he didn't just mean Muslims with terrorist leanings. He wants all Muslims out of America and he wants all Muslims locked out of America (i think he seems less sure about how in the hell this could be done, but he wants it). He has specifically said this more than once. I don't understand the desire to try and minimize his statements. Is it because they are just so totally uncomfortable that people can't even believe someone could really think it?

Is that true about instantly losing citizenship if you swear allegiance to a terrorist organization???? Or did you mean figuratively? That doesn't sound right.

http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/loss_of_citizenship.html
Causes of Citizenship Loss
U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. These acts include:

Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state;
Taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions;
Entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state;
Accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States;
Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war");
Conviction for an act of treason.

I am not sure a terrorist group counts as a foreign state or its political subdivisions.... would be an interesting debate, but I don't know how that would hold up in court. I guess it would depend on the terrorist group. If it has taken over a government or has declared itself as one in a region during war, then I assume it would likely apply, but otherwise, I'm not so sure. But if it did count, I wonder if that would include American terrorist groups? I assume American terrorists get to stay Americans no matter what.
These rules more seem written for the cold war era, when people would do shit like defect to Russia. I wonder when they were written.

ISIS is a foreign state that has engaged in hostilities against the US.....but I do agree that stuff like this was probably written during the Cold War.
I mean if you leave america and go and join al queda i'm 99.9% sure you lose your U.S. citizenship. I'll do some more research.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

I guess depending on how you look at it any of these three would have fit the orlando shooter: (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old;

i'm not sure if you on the spot lose your citizenship or have to go to some sort of formal court of law.

I don't think the Orlando shooter applies to this in any way. Just saying you swear allegience to something doesn't mean anything. I could do it right now in my living room if I wanted and it would mean jack squat.

Unless you went out and proved your allegiance.