Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL
Comments
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Yep, the land of political correctness. I've even heard of people being sued for administering CPR even though they saved the person's life because they "left bruises". Such a sue happy society.mace1229 said:
The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.PJPOWER said:
No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...PJ_Soul said:I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.0 -
ahhh cool ! duel citizenship, good for you man ! that is cool.benjs said:
I'm in Canada, and I'm half-American (on my dad's side).Godfather. said:
when you visit America ? where are you ?benjs said:
Given that you're not talking about a single percentage point of Muslims who seek to bastardize the name of their religion and terrorize because of it, my opinion is that humans owe it to humans to allow and assist in the pursuit of a better life, when those humans are willing to abide by the laws of the land and pay dues through taxes and improvements to the economy and social setting of their new home. Of course Americans will never see that - the United States aren't truly United States with the exception of the currency - let alone part of a united world where people care for each other's well being. When I visit America, I am hundreds of times more afraid of untreated mentally ill persons, or radical bigots such as yourself (who will protect your right to carry lethal weapons until death) than radical Islamists. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm the only one.Godfather. said:I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?
we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Godfather.
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That's not PC, that is tort reform. But I would think good Samaritan laws protect you there. You can sue anyone you want. Doesn't mean you will win.PJPOWER said:
Yep, the land of political correctness. I've even heard of people being sued for administering CPR even though they saved the person's life because they "left bruises". Such a sue happy society.mace1229 said:
The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.PJPOWER said:
No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...PJ_Soul said:I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
people can be born mentally ill....possibly. we don't know that yet. but people aren't born hating anyone. hate is learned.Godfather. said:....but I will say that bad seeds are born just as you might say gay children are born, this guy who killed all those people at the gay bar had a history of ..unruliness starting back in grade school and probably earlier.
Godfather.0 -
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Being in Vietnam, for example, I felt a great deal of shame for having American blood in me. Hearing a gay person on Democracy Now talk about the events in Orlando and say, "our souls are dead - all that lives is the second amendment", I felt the same. I like to think we're only as good as our abilities to confront our faults head-on, and I see a tremendous collective failure to do so from Americans. I should add that like any statement about a collective, of course, that doesn't mean everyone, but many and most, or at least the overwhelming loudest of them.Godfather. said:
ahhh cool ! duel citizenship, good for you man ! that is cool.benjs said:
I'm in Canada, and I'm half-American (on my dad's side).Godfather. said:
when you visit America ? where are you ?benjs said:
Given that you're not talking about a single percentage point of Muslims who seek to bastardize the name of their religion and terrorize because of it, my opinion is that humans owe it to humans to allow and assist in the pursuit of a better life, when those humans are willing to abide by the laws of the land and pay dues through taxes and improvements to the economy and social setting of their new home. Of course Americans will never see that - the United States aren't truly United States with the exception of the currency - let alone part of a united world where people care for each other's well being. When I visit America, I am hundreds of times more afraid of untreated mentally ill persons, or radical bigots such as yourself (who will protect your right to carry lethal weapons until death) than radical Islamists. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm the only one.Godfather. said:I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?
we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Godfather.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
You doubt that? That has already happened, exactly what you said couldn't happen did happen 6 months ago and was national news. Maybe not with a gun shop, but people have admitted to not reporting something because they were afraid of being labeled racist or discriminating. Just 2 months after the "clock kid" incident happened where the White House hailed him as a hero and the district was sued for millions the San Bernardino shooting occurred. Not just one, but several neighbors admitted to seeing suspicious activity, but also stated they were afraid of being labeled as racist if they were to report it, so they did nothing.PJ_Soul said:
I kind of doubt that. I don't think anyone can be sued for contacting authorities when they perceive a threat to public safety. Not when weapons are involved. We're not talking about bakers here. They're people selling guns. That's a lot different.mace1229 said:
The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.PJPOWER said:
No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...PJ_Soul said:I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.
It has already happened, people were sued and lost jobs over reporting what they perceived as a threat to public safety because they were wrong. And in my opinion, if you saw a picture of that homemade clock, to someone who doesn't know anything about electronics or explosives could easily be frightened by it, and as a result I bet a kid can walk in that school tomorrow with something "suspicious" (like a real clock bomb, obviously I'm not referring to a shotgun or something) and no one will report it. Partially because its summer and no one else will be there, but still.....0 -
I am well aware of those past accusations that you mention (no one got sued btw - it was just a point of conversation in the media), and I made a specific point about it being a gun seller. Different story completely IMO. I see and understand the points that you are making. They just aren't examples that apply to what I was actually saying.mace1229 said:
You doubt that? That has already happened, exactly what you said couldn't happen did happen 6 months ago and was national news. Maybe not with a gun shop, but people have admitted to not reporting something because they were afraid of being labeled racist or discriminating. Just 2 months after the "clock kid" incident happened where the White House hailed him as a hero and the district was sued for millions the San Bernardino shooting occurred. Not just one, but several neighbors admitted to seeing suspicious activity, but also stated they were afraid of being labeled as racist if they were to report it, so they did nothing.PJ_Soul said:
I kind of doubt that. I don't think anyone can be sued for contacting authorities when they perceive a threat to public safety. Not when weapons are involved. We're not talking about bakers here. They're people selling guns. That's a lot different.mace1229 said:
The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.PJPOWER said:
No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...PJ_Soul said:I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.
It has already happened, people were sued and lost jobs over reporting what they perceived as a threat to public safety because they were wrong. And in my opinion, if you saw a picture of that homemade clock, to someone who doesn't know anything about electronics or explosives could easily be frightened by it, and as a result I bet a kid can walk in that school tomorrow with something "suspicious" (like a real clock bomb, obviously I'm not referring to a shotgun or something) and no one will report it. Partially because its summer and no one else will be there, but still.....With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
I was pretty sure there was a lawsuit involved. Googling "clock kid lawsuit" has every search result on the first page stating that lawyers on behalf of the family have sent demand letters to the school district and the city in the sum of $15 million. Weather they have actually filed a lawsuit yet may be different, and probably wouldn't happen for several months while negotiations occur and the school lawyers up to respond.PJ_Soul said:
I am well aware of those past accusations that you mention (no one got sued btw - it was just a point of conversation in the media), and I made a specific point about it being a gun seller. Different story completely IMO. I see and understand the points that you are making. They just aren't examples that apply to what I was actually saying.mace1229 said:
You doubt that? That has already happened, exactly what you said couldn't happen did happen 6 months ago and was national news. Maybe not with a gun shop, but people have admitted to not reporting something because they were afraid of being labeled racist or discriminating. Just 2 months after the "clock kid" incident happened where the White House hailed him as a hero and the district was sued for millions the San Bernardino shooting occurred. Not just one, but several neighbors admitted to seeing suspicious activity, but also stated they were afraid of being labeled as racist if they were to report it, so they did nothing.PJ_Soul said:
I kind of doubt that. I don't think anyone can be sued for contacting authorities when they perceive a threat to public safety. Not when weapons are involved. We're not talking about bakers here. They're people selling guns. That's a lot different.mace1229 said:
The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.PJPOWER said:
No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...PJ_Soul said:I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.
It has already happened, people were sued and lost jobs over reporting what they perceived as a threat to public safety because they were wrong. And in my opinion, if you saw a picture of that homemade clock, to someone who doesn't know anything about electronics or explosives could easily be frightened by it, and as a result I bet a kid can walk in that school tomorrow with something "suspicious" (like a real clock bomb, obviously I'm not referring to a shotgun or something) and no one will report it. Partially because its summer and no one else will be there, but still.....
I know you referenced gun shops, I didn't say it but I don't think its a no stretch at all to go from suing a school district and city (or sending demand letters through a lawyer at the very least) to see it happening to a gun shop. To me seems like an easier lawsuit, gun shops aren't responsible for the safety of thousands of kids every day, schools should be on the highest alert and report anything that is the least bit suspicious and if they can get sued for that, anyone can. "Mr. Gun Shop denied me my second amendment right by refusing to sell me a gun without even a proper background check. I need $20 million to make my feelings better."0 -
Anyone can sue anyone at anytime. That doesn't mean it isn't frivolous and could be thrown out. Reciprocal attorney fees exist to reduce these.0
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Well right. I assumed we were talking about cases that would actually be won. Where someone is going to sue and lose because it's a stupid law suit isn't really worth a discussion IMO, unless you are a lawyer taking the cases I guess.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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The original point really had nothing to do with realistic cases. We were talking about the fear of reporting something and being labeled racist and. You said no lawsuit had been filed in the clock case, and my point wasn't that it should have been filed, but filing even a frivolous lawsuit can deter people. Anyone whose been sued, frivolous included, will tell you it costs thousands and why 9 times out of 10 they are settled out of court to avoid these fees. Even when you "win", you're still out thousands in a case like this. Even if the judge awards you lawyer fees (which only happens in very extreme cases, or if it is in a contract like a lease) it can take years to recover that money that you paid up front. My original point wasn't that a case would be won or lost, but that even a frivolous lawsuit can deter people from reporting something, and stated that is exactly what did happen with SB shooting (if not fear of a lawsuit, fear of a label anyway),
Anyway, sounds like were basically on the same page except for a few schematics (schematics? Why do I get the feeling I'm using the wrong word here? Whatever, the weekend is almost here!)0 -
Semantics, that's the word!0
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Yeah, I forgot the clock kid's dad did that. But anyway, I still maintain that a gun shop owner reporting concerns to authorities would be safe.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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You you're right and I think we are saying the same thing. Reciprocal fees are most common in contract law. Being sued is very expensive regardless of the merits of the case.mace1229 said:The original point really had nothing to do with realistic cases. We were talking about the fear of reporting something and being labeled racist and. You said no lawsuit had been filed in the clock case, and my point wasn't that it should have been filed, but filing even a frivolous lawsuit can deter people. Anyone whose been sued, frivolous included, will tell you it costs thousands and why 9 times out of 10 they are settled out of court to avoid these fees. Even when you "win", you're still out thousands in a case like this. Even if the judge awards you lawyer fees (which only happens in very extreme cases, or if it is in a contract like a lease) it can take years to recover that money that you paid up front. My original point wasn't that a case would be won or lost, but that even a frivolous lawsuit can deter people from reporting something, and stated that is exactly what did happen with SB shooting (if not fear of a lawsuit, fear of a label anyway),
Anyway, sounds like were basically on the same page except for a few schematics (schematics? Why do I get the feeling I'm using the wrong word here? Whatever, the weekend is almost here!)0 -
So is he a radical American?cutz said:
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Holy fuck.
Stymied for words aside from that.0 -
Yah.hedonist said:Holy fuck.
Stymied for words aside from that.
F**ked up, man.
Can't wait to hear the defences."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
What I think is that you think that's enough of a sample size for you to support a conclusion you already have made. I also think I could phrase a similar question to a group of Southern Baptists and get a similar hand raising response. And hand raise response can also just be a measure of how much pressure there is to conform to the group. Also, with a lot of videos on the internet, I also question if it's been manipulated/edited.PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
1:55 - 2:15Go Beavers said:
I did, but tell me what I missed.PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
I guess you guys didn't watch the above video.jnimhaoileoin said:
Exactly, we all grew up with a general understanding of Christianity. We don't really have a proper understanding of Islam, I certainly don't anyway. As usual, we fear and distrust what we don't understand. Instead of just condemning the notion of wearing a hijab and deciding it could only be a sign of repression, I asked about it and tried to better understand it. As a result, I don't regard it with the same suspicion and unease that I did beforeGo Beavers said:
It's the same thing with Christian extremists, but the difference with them is that the general public accepts the notion that they aren't representing Christianity because most of us in the U.S. have a lot of familiarity with the religion. When a Christian extremist kills someone, we attribute their motivations to something else and find a different label for them.jnimhaoileoin said:I was asking my friend, who's a Bosnian Muslim, about the hijab the other day and I was saying to her how we find such aspects hard to understand. I think it's important to remember that we cannot judge all Muslims by the actions of a relatively tiny percentage, no matter how terrible the deeds. We talked a bit about the general perception of Islam and these were just some of her thoughts.
'Most muslims are decent, warm, peaceful people.. A few bad eggs...and the whole religion is typecast. We don't consider the extremists to be muslim for their actions are not justifiable. Sadly the media is to blame a lot i think.'
Please tell us what you think.0
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