Revenge of the BOTS...Reason why PJ, The Hip and other tickets are hard to get...

JaneNY

I had to log in to just say wow what a sleazebag. Damn. And when he got guffawing about how he got to pay face value for tickets, that's when I was done and shut it off. I do hope some karma comes back to him somehow someday.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Ticketmaster is in the secondary market too.

This is the caveat that speaks to how truly wrong this situation is.

Yeah, i really don't understand how that's legal.

PJ_Soul

Ray J. T. said:

Horse2345 said:

Ray J. T. said:

So I guess all those Captcha's don't mean a fucking thing huh?

The hip presale didnt have captchas

I guess that just makes the nightmare even worse.

No, it had a similar thing. You have to select photos instead (i.e. select all the photos that show a store front; select all the photos that show bodies of water, etc).

Bentleyspop

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Ticketmaster is in the secondary market too.

This is the caveat that speaks to how truly wrong this situation is.

Yeah, i really don't understand how that's legal.

Simple....it's not illegal
Unfortunately

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Bentleyspop said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Ticketmaster is in the secondary market too.

This is the caveat that speaks to how truly wrong this situation is.

Yeah, i really don't understand how that's legal.

Simple....it's not illegal
Unfortunately

And why it's not is the million dollar question.

ckravitz

Zod said:

I thought this article was a better read:

https://theringer.com/ticket-industry-problem-solution-e4b3b71fdff6#.9wyf07xso

The problem starts long before the bots. The bots can only access the scum that's left during the public onsale. It's the stuff that goes on before the public onsale that's even worse.

Good read.

Paperless really does seem to be the solution to cripple the resellers, but I agree, there is so much else that goes on that it won't solve all the problems. It seems the only real solution is legislation that xx% of tickets must go on sale directly to fans. I don't know what that number is and it would obviously have to have exceptions so bands could play private events, etc., but at least according to that article, that's where the big issue is.

1. Go paperless
2. Legislate a minimum % of tickets offered to the public
3. Cripple the bots (this is LOL-easy from a tech perspective if they really wanted to)
4. Legislate a cap on resale fees (and enforce it). Maybe 1.5x of face or something like that. I.e 100 face ticket is capped at 150. This dis-incentivizes the secondary market.

I know there is a strong current that says let the market forces play out, but the problem with that is it's not a true free market when a small number of groups are cornering it. In tainted markets like that legislation is needed to keep control.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

There are countless solutions.

The point is that there needs to be a will towards making a change effort. The paying fans would like to see initiatives that stop them from getting gouged on the secondary market, but the secondary market is entrenched without restriction for a reason.

ldent42

http://www.ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Ticket_Sales_Report.pdf

CURRENT LAW
New York State law prohibits engaging “in the business of reselling any tickets to a place of entertainment” within New York State without first procuring “a license.11 Those who resell, offer to resell, or purchase with the intent to resell five or more tickets without a license are guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to penalties.12 Additionally, the law requires that brokers post a $25,000 bond with their license application to ensure compliance with the law’s provisions and cover damages to their customers from any misconduct.13 Brokers that resell tickets online must also display a hyperlink to a copy of their licenses,14 and they must display the face value of tickets along with the resale prices.15
New York State law also makes it illegal for brokers to use Bots to bypass security measures on the websites of ticket vendors, such as Ticketmaster, or to maintain any interest in or control of such Bots.16 Anyone who violates these provisions is subject to penalties and the forfeiture of profits.17
No current federal law specifically prohibits the use of Ticket Bots, but legislation has been proposed that would do so. The Better On-line Ticket Sales Act of 2014 or the BOTS Act, supported by Senator Charles Schumer, would prohibit, as an unfair and deceptive act, the sale or use of Ticket Bots. It would also provide for criminal penalties for those who engage in this conduct.

**All of the footnotes in this excerpt reference N.Y. Arts & Cult. Aff. L. (New York Arts & Cultural Affairs Law) 2010 version.

So on a federal level, the bots are not currently illegal. In my state, they are, so I'm not going in with any of you on the software. I'd suggest everyone check their state's laws to determine if the bots are legal there or not. THAT SAID, NY based brokers still use bots. So. Yea. Until there is any actual enforcement this shit aint gonna stop.

There was a federal bill introduced in 2014 and apparently a new version with the same name BOTS (Better On-Line Ticket Sales) Act 'introduced to the house' and then I don't know what happened. I don't know how laws work though so many someone less ignorant could google it and figure it out. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5104/all-info

PJfanwillneverleave1

IgotshitID said:

What a fucking piece of shit that guy is

Nice

PJ_Soul

No such laws where i am. Here is is perfecy legal for street scalpers to stand outside the venue and buy and sell tix as long as they aren't actually on the property. No limit on number of tix they sell.
It's pretty brutal to stand there and watch a scalper buy a ticket from someone for face or even less and then resell it 15 seconds later at a 200% mark up .......... almost hard to blame them for doing it though. It's basically the easiest way to legally make money in the world. I feel more frustrated with the buyers.

RF283499

The only way to fix this is by having a system of registered users. Pay a yearly fee to use TM. You fill out an application like you would for a credit card. Then the registered users get to buy (or enter a lottery sale) on the presale. Not very unlike the system PJ uses.

the_don

Why can't a bunch of high profile bands just take a stand already? It didn't work for PJ before, cause they were the only ones doing it. Get bruce, u2, foos, and whoever to ALL take a stand together. But of course, $$$ prevails so that will never happen...

RF283499

This is pretty good. Listen to a Hip ticket scalper get scalped by my local rock radio station.

Ah, good times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/04/tragically-hip-tickets-scalper_n_10299728.html

RF283499

the_don said:

Why can't a bunch of high profile bands just take a stand already? It didn't work for PJ before, cause they were the only ones doing it. Get bruce, u2, foos, and whoever to ALL take a stand together. But of course, $$$ prevails so that will never happen...

You mean the bands that have long term contracts with Live Nation (who own TM)? To play at their venues almost exclusively and therefore use the TM ticket system.

This is the problem, the bands need Live Nation and are obligated to be in business with them.

Zod

RF283499 said:

the_don said:

Why can't a bunch of high profile bands just take a stand already? It didn't work for PJ before, cause they were the only ones doing it. Get bruce, u2, foos, and whoever to ALL take a stand together. But of course, $$$ prevails so that will never happen...

You mean the bands that have long term contracts with Live Nation (who own TM)? To play at their venues almost exclusively and therefore use the TM ticket system.

This is the problem, the bands need Live Nation and are obligated to be in business with them.

+1 - PJ Tried to take a stand in '95. Not the one where Stone and Jeff went to congress but the one where they toured non-ticketmaster venues. They had to do everything themselves. Handle ticketing, security, etc... I thank that tour damn near killed them (it damn near killed Eddie). Now it's 20 years later and I don't think there's many non TM/Live Nation venues left. Musicians earn their bread and butter touring. The only way they can protest is to collectively stop touring.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

RF283499 said:

the_don said:

Why can't a bunch of high profile bands just take a stand already? It didn't work for PJ before, cause they were the only ones doing it. Get bruce, u2, foos, and whoever to ALL take a stand together. But of course, $$$ prevails so that will never happen...

You mean the bands that have long term contracts with Live Nation (who own TM)? To play at their venues almost exclusively and therefore use the TM ticket system.

This is the problem, the bands need Live Nation and are obligated to be in business with them.

Not to mention the fact that hardly anyone pays for their music anymore leaving touring as their primary income generator.

Money prevails on all levels- if someone has downloaded music for free... they're just as concerned for their bank account as bands are about their's... and are in no position to cast stones.

Elderly Woman Behind The Count

RF283499 said:

This is pretty good. Listen to a Hip ticket scalper get scalped by my local rock radio station.

Ah, good times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/04/tragically-hip-tickets-scalper_n_10299728.html

HTTZ is my station too & this was the best! I really hope the jerk was listening on his drive back to Mississauga lol

PJ_Soul

the_don said:

Why can't a bunch of high profile bands just take a stand already? It didn't work for PJ before, cause they were the only ones doing it. Get bruce, u2, foos, and whoever to ALL take a stand together. But of course, $$$ prevails so that will never happen...

I agree. If only PJ's most successful peers had been willing to make the same sacrifices that PJ was willing to make (god knows they could have afforded it), the fight would have probably been won in the 90s. Legislation probably would have been written to better regulate the industry.
But in the very end i guess i blame this on government most, and its refusal to regulate for the protection of consumers. One almost has to wonder whose pockets are being lined.

lexicondevil

RF283499 said:

The only way to fix this is by having a system of registered users. Pay a yearly fee to use TM. You fill out an application like you would for a credit card. Then the registered users get to buy (or enter a lottery sale) on the presale. Not very unlike the system PJ uses.

Yeah, this wouldn't piss off anyone at all. I'd love to have to fill out an application and pay a yearly fee just to buy a ticket to a concert... 10C is a completely different situation.

PJ_Soul

lexicondevil said:

RF283499 said:

The only way to fix this is by having a system of registered users. Pay a yearly fee to use TM. You fill out an application like you would for a credit card. Then the registered users get to buy (or enter a lottery sale) on the presale. Not very unlike the system PJ uses.

Yeah, this wouldn't piss off anyone at all. I'd love to have to fill out an application and pay a yearly fee just to buy a ticket to a concert... 10C is a completely different situation.

Yeah, I don't see it as an option for TM. Not least because TM has absolutely no reason to do such a thing.