Did you skip over the multiple responses where people indicated that he apologized for doing it? More will come out about this guy being a shitrag, I am sure of it.
I didn't need to see the posts, I read his own post. I've already said how I feel about it even if it did happen like that guy says it did. Also, I see no reason to assume he actually remembers doing it, even if he did apologize. I'm also not saying he doesn't remember it. I don't know, and neither do any of you. But wow, I'm shocked by how everyone is now judge, jury, and executioner. If more comes out, I will be completely willing to change my outlook in tune with the information I have. This is how I view all cases like this.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What if that kid hadn't been able to physically resist Spacey? The fact that an attempt didn't come to fruition doesn't take away from the attempt itself.
Jesus.
I really appreciate some of the comments here. Thank you.
What if that kid hadn't been able to physically resist Spacey? The fact that an attempt didn't come to fruition doesn't take away from the attempt itself.
Jesus.
I really appreciate some of the comments here. Thank you.
Well that would turn it from an advance to an assault, so would change everything. I think the question is a little weird (and also informs me as to where people's heads are at right now - basically inflating the account to make it seem worse than it was). It implies that the kid actually fought off Spacey and won the fight, and if he hadn't Spacey would have raped him. That is not what happened based on the accuser's account. His account suggests that Spacey gave it a solid shot and was rejected, and the kid was able to leave. There was no fight or struggle that Spacey lost as far as I've read. What you're describing is attempted rape, which is not what he's being accused of. I believe the most he could be accused of is sexual misconduct (not even - obviously the statute of limitations is in effect... and that statute does have a common sense purpose, pretty much based on the kinds of arguments I'm putting forth here).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Fine, not physically resist but not able to "reject". Semantics? I don't know. The act and intent themselves are fucked up.
And...no one, including yourself, knows my very own mindset...and I'm pretty sure I know myself well enough to know that I'm not inflating shit That would be as silly as my accusing you of deflating. We - as you, and others - draw on our own experiences and common sense. It's great if you can be distant about this and firm in your beliefs, PJ, even with your own history - but for others to react differently, to think differently, is no less a valid and thoughtful response than anyone else's.
I understand what you're saying, but the thing is, these accusations are currently ruining a man's life because everyone is assuming the accusation means Spacey is a pedophile (at best?). All we have is one account that this dude sent to buzzfeed. I do NOT victim shame. But I also don't leap to conclusions with one accusation about something that happened decades ago, with no corroboration and no evidence and no way to know if the account is even accurate, and even if it is, context and circumstances may play a huge role in the one incident. Show me a pattern that proves he's a pedophile and a predator and I'll be right there with you guys. Until then I have to stay objective because I think the alternative is akin to mob mentality and rejects the basic tenets of justice in our society. Yeah, I think I am saying that to react differently right now, with the info available, is indeed less valid for the same reasons that act as the backbone of our justice system.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Whatever he's labeled, I now think of him as a piece of shit who crossed the line, for whatever reasons some may be willing (or not) to forgive of him.
In the end, anyone's decree of how worthy my opinion is...really doesn't matter, I guess. I'm cool with where I am on this for now.
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,383
edited November 2017
I have an extra pitchfork for you Hedo. "Piece of trash, piece of trash!"
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
I feel like you are just ignoring pretty much everything everyone here is saying. as F Me stated, we have all stated several times that Spacey is NOT DENYING IT. If this was out of character for him, he'd be adamantly denying it. He is making light of it, AND APOLOGIZED FOR IT. How is that not an admission of guilt? or, at the very least, "it's very possible I did it". as I also stated, I am not joining any mob. I was one of the last to actually jump on the Cosby is a rapist bandwagon, as I am always skeptical about this type of shit, for my own, very personal reasons.
I understand this doesn't fit the specific parameters of being pedophilia, but just as an aside, most people accused of pedophilia aren't actual pedophiles. the assaults are actually a crime of opportunity, which is what this might be here. but it might not be.
I didn't even know that he physically lifted him up and laid on top of him after carrying him to a room against his will. if any adult man did that to any adult woman, that would be considered assault. I'm not sure why you don't care about this just because "it may be a one-off". and don't seem to care that is on the low end of being a teenager. You don't get a pass for a one-off. not sober, not drunk, not nothing.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position.
Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position.
If a person wants to bring up their personal history in this context that is their business, not yours.
A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position.
If a person wants to bring up their personal history in this context that is their business, not yours.
A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.
oh please. she's brushing this off as "no big deal" unless it's a pattern. my question is relevant given past statements on a public forum.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
"a matt lauer beauty", matt could give a shit about abuse he wants dirty laundry, he wants names and its feldmans fault bec he wont name names. ml"you've said you were going to name names" cf "never" it is puzzling why feldman is asking for $10mil
"a matt lauer beauty", matt could give a shit about abuse he wants dirty laundry, he wants names and its feldmans fault bec he wont name names. ml"you've said you were going to name names" cf "never" it is puzzling why feldman is asking for $10mil
just because we disagree, doesn't mean you are the only one being objective, @PJ_Soul. we are going by the same info you are. you just seem to think this is "no big deal" even if it did happen as described. that's the difference. I think 26 and 14 is gross. and it's actually illegal. assault or no assault. it's gross and illegal. that can't be debated in my opinion.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
"a matt lauer beauty", matt could give a shit about abuse he wants dirty laundry, he wants names and its feldmans fault bec he wont name names. ml"you've said you were going to name names" cf "never" it is puzzling why feldman is asking for $10mil
"a matt lauer beauty", matt could give a shit about abuse he wants dirty laundry, he wants names and its feldmans fault bec he wont name names. ml"you've said you were going to name names" cf "never" it is puzzling why feldman is asking for $10mil
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position.
If a person wants to bring up their personal history in this context that is their business, not yours.
A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.
oh please. she's brushing this off as "no big deal" unless it's a pattern. my question is relevant given past statements on a public forum.
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
I think it is. My view is I just need more than the word of a 14 year old 30 years later to place that sort of a label on a man. And I'm not a big Spacey fan. Rapp could be exaggerating what happened, or making it up, or was on drugs and has no idea about the night. Maybe he lied about his age to get invited to the party. Or he could be telling the truth and Spacey is a major creepo. I Just have no idea. And I dont think a single interview lacking all sort of information and anyone else who was there is going to convince me. I just read Rapp's interview for the first time and I am even less convinced now than before. Rapp doesn;t say he wasn't drinking, went to a club and says "I don't know how— We got in through the front door," Rapp continued. "We didn't have to show ID." To me that implies this is at least an 18 and over club if he doesn't know how he got in without ID. I'm just saying isn't it possible there's more to this story than Spacey tried to jump on a 14 year old? Maybe there isn't, but then again there might be.
I think I'm somewhere in the middle of PJ and you. I don't think the fact it was 1984 changes much if in fact he was trying to score with a 14 year old. But I think this should be looked at more before publicly crucifying someone on this.
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all. Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
I think it is. My view is I just need more than the word of a 14 year old 30 years later to place that sort of a label on a man. And I'm not a big Spacey fan. Rapp could be exaggerating what happened, or making it up, or was on drugs and has no idea about the night. Maybe he lied about his age to get invited to the party. Or he could be telling the truth and Spacey is a major creepo. I Just have no idea. And I dont think a single interview lacking all sort of information and anyone else who was there is going to convince me. I just read Rapp's interview for the first time and I am even less convinced now than before. Rapp doesn;t say he wasn't drinking, went to a club and says "I don't know how— We got in through the front door," Rapp continued. "We didn't have to show ID." To me that implies this is at least an 18 and over club if he doesn't know how he got in without ID. I'm just saying isn't it possible there's more to this story than Spacey tried to jump on a 14 year old? Maybe there isn't, but then again there might be.
I think I'm somewhere in the middle of PJ and you. I don't think the fact it was 1984 changes much if in fact he was trying to score with a 14 year old. But I think this should be looked at more before publicly crucifying someone on this.
her stance is that EVEN IF WHAT HE SAYS IS THE TRUTH IT IS NO BIG DEAL.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
No need to make this personal, that's out of line.
no it's not. she mentioned this a long time ago in the context of trump in a public forum (which makes it fair game). she was disgusted by it. I'm wondering why the inconsistency in position.
If a person wants to bring up their personal history in this context that is their business, not yours.
A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.
oh please. she's brushing this off as "no big deal" unless it's a pattern. my question is relevant given past statements on a public forum.
Hey, you do you then.
ah, the newest catch phrase retort. good for you.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all. Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.
you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all. Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.
you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
If more comes out, I will be completely willing to change my outlook in tune with the information I have. This is how I view all cases like this.
Jesus.
I really appreciate some of the comments here. Thank you.
And...no one, including yourself, knows my very own mindset...and I'm pretty sure I know myself well enough to know that I'm not inflating shit That would be as silly as my accusing you of deflating. We - as you, and others - draw on our own experiences and common sense. It's great if you can be distant about this and firm in your beliefs, PJ, even with your own history - but for others to react differently, to think differently, is no less a valid and thoughtful response than anyone else's.
In the end, anyone's decree of how worthy my opinion is...really doesn't matter, I guess. I'm cool with where I am on this for now.
"Piece of trash, piece of trash!"
A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.
So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".
I understand this doesn't fit the specific parameters of being pedophilia, but just as an aside, most people accused of pedophilia aren't actual pedophiles. the assaults are actually a crime of opportunity, which is what this might be here. but it might not be.
I didn't even know that he physically lifted him up and laid on top of him after carrying him to a room against his will. if any adult man did that to any adult woman, that would be considered assault. I'm not sure why you don't care about this just because "it may be a one-off". and don't seem to care that is on the low end of being a teenager. You don't get a pass for a one-off. not sober, not drunk, not nothing.
was it no big deal when someone grabbed your p**** at that festival you mentioned some time ago? the guy was drunk. it was a mistake. it was a one-off. does that excuse it?
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
A possibly traumatic event shouldn't be used against them, that's low from my point of view.
-EV 8/14/93
it is puzzling why feldman is asking for $10mil
-EV 8/14/93
I think 26 and 14 is gross. and it's actually illegal. assault or no assault. it's gross and illegal. that can't be debated in my opinion.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
feldman says she guilty for prostituting her son for fame and fortune
who knows, the $10m thingy may be a scam but I dont think he is a scam artist? what who else did he scam?
-EV 8/14/93
Rapp: 14
in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
-EV 8/14/93
Rapp could be exaggerating what happened, or making it up, or was on drugs and has no idea about the night. Maybe he lied about his age to get invited to the party. Or he could be telling the truth and Spacey is a major creepo. I Just have no idea. And I dont think a single interview lacking all sort of information and anyone else who was there is going to convince me.
I just read Rapp's interview for the first time and I am even less convinced now than before. Rapp doesn;t say he wasn't drinking, went to a club and says "I don't know how— We got in through the front door," Rapp continued. "We didn't have to show ID." To me that implies this is at least an 18 and over club if he doesn't know how he got in without ID.
I'm just saying isn't it possible there's more to this story than Spacey tried to jump on a 14 year old? Maybe there isn't, but then again there might be.
I think I'm somewhere in the middle of PJ and you. I don't think the fact it was 1984 changes much if in fact he was trying to score with a 14 year old. But I think this should be looked at more before publicly crucifying someone on this.
Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93