what is up with all these hollywood pedos?

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    I don't really know how to take this. If you're saying "in the '80s this sort of behaviour was commonplace in Hollywood parties", then..... maybe. I don't know; I wasn't there. But if you're saying it was commonplace and thereby okay, then no, I don't accept that argument. An adult in their 20s making sexual advances to a young teen is not okay, regardless of the genders involved or the circumstance. The 80s is not so distant that this fact wasn't recognized then. 
    Well, 1, it wasn't Hollywood. ;)
    No, I'm not saying it was generally commonplace. I am specifically thinking about the scene that must have been among the casts of Broadway in New York in 1984. In that context, it may not have been commonplace, but at the very least the time and place fueled such circumstances. More importantly, I'm thinking that it was over 30 years ago, in that context, and he didn't actually assault anyone, and we're just going off of what this one guy says about it more than 30 years later. Sounds like he got drunk and heavily hit on the kid (assuming that's true), and he was rejected, and did not restrain this guy or anything like that. Sounds like the kid was able to say no and leave. Meanwhile, everyone is acting like he raped someone.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited October 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    JC29856 said:
    Kevin Spacey accused of trying to have sexual relations with a 14 year old boy, his reply, I was intoxicated and oh by the way I'm gay. True story.
    Even I could do better than he and his publicists.
    but it worked. all the headlines are "kevin spacey comes out as gay". very little about the admission of guilt. straight from the trump playbook. 
    The weird thing is that he was already out. I really don't understand why he or anyone is acting like he wasn't already out of the closet. It's bizarre and offensive. I have a gay friend who is a MASSIVE Spacey fan, and he's not really bothered by the "incident" at all, but is really bothered by the fact that Spacey somehow drew some weird parallel between the accusation and him being gay (which we all already knew).

    As for House of Cards being cancelled... Honestly, with them saying that so fast, I call bullshit. I think they had planned on ending the show after Season 6 all along, and just linked ending it to this scandal to make Netflix look like it cared. Just a guess on my part of course, but surely they wouldn't have acted that quickly otherwise. If it hadn't already been in the works, I think it would have taken a little more thought and planning to definitively cancel one of their biggest shows. But either way, they certainly threw Spacey under the bus by making that announcement today and working it the way they did.

    As for the allegation... Ummmm, am I the only one who doesn't really give a shit, given the context and just looking at the info available? I mean, we're talking a bunch of young Broadway actors in 1984 at a drunken Broadway actors party. I fully acknowledge that no adult should be putting the moves on a 14 year old, but realistically, considering the context and the time and scene, I have to give Spacey a pass 30 years later.... Now, that's only if this wasn't attempted rape. From the description the accuser put forth, it doesn't sound like attempted rape. It sounds like a drunken advance. Sorry, I know it's not PC for me to not be completely outraged, but I'm being honest and realistic. I could not be the only one. That said, if a bunch of other people come out saying the same thing, that he regularly pursued kids, that would change things. But this one particular accusation, with the details we have? I really just can't bring myself to think it's that big a deal, given the specific context, and yes, I have thought hard about how much of that is my bias as a Spacey fan... I've decided that none of it is. I would say this about anyone else in the exact same situation. This sounded to me like drunk Spacey got on a bed and basically started trying to get some (likely a pretty common scenario inside that scene in 1984, among the cast of fucking Rent), but the kid got up and left because he wasn't into it. Was the incident more serious than that? Am I missing something?

    .... All that said, I would also consider the mindset of the accuser. I mean, did this incident really disturb him deeply for one reason or another? If so, that matters. I have had much more disturbing scenarios happen to me, and I'm not disturbed, but everyone's different. Why did this guy come out with this info now? Because he really feels that Spacey is a child predator? That what he did back then is a good reason to have his career ruined, because he's a predator? If so, okay... I can live with that. I would respect the perspective of the accuser. Or did he come out with this info because it's "the thing to do" right now, but if it wasn't he wouldn't even actually care about it? To me, that makes a big difference.

    I should also note that if Spacey fucking did the same thing to a 14 year old now, that would make a huge different too. No, that would be completely unacceptable. But the time and the context matters a lot IMO. I don't think that it's necessarily right to be applying today's standards to actions taken over 30 years ago.
    he wasn't actually out. he was the same as jodie foster. everyone "knew", but they never confirmed. well Jodie did eventually, but Spacey never did. until it was convenient for him. 
    Well he has brought male dates to public events and has said that he's gay in an interview before, so yeah, I would call that actually being out. He just didn't specifically advertise it.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited October 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    JC29856 said:
    Kevin Spacey accused of trying to have sexual relations with a 14 year old boy, his reply, I was intoxicated and oh by the way I'm gay. True story.
    Even I could do better than he and his publicists.
    but it worked. all the headlines are "kevin spacey comes out as gay". very little about the admission of guilt. straight from the trump playbook. 
    The weird thing is that he was already out. I really don't understand why he or anyone is acting like he wasn't already out of the closet. It's bizarre and offensive. I have a gay friend who is a MASSIVE Spacey fan, and he's not really bothered by the "incident" at all, but is really bothered by the fact that Spacey somehow drew some weird parallel between the accusation and him being gay (which we all already knew).

    As for House of Cards being cancelled... Honestly, with them saying that so fast, I call bullshit. I think they had planned on ending the show after Season 6 all along, and just linked ending it to this scandal to make Netflix look like it cared. Just a guess on my part of course, but surely they wouldn't have acted that quickly otherwise. If it hadn't already been in the works, I think it would have taken a little more thought and planning to definitively cancel one of their biggest shows. But either way, they certainly threw Spacey under the bus by making that announcement today and working it the way they did.

    As for the allegation... Ummmm, am I the only one who doesn't really give a shit, given the context and just looking at the info available? I mean, we're talking a bunch of young Broadway actors in 1984 at a drunken Broadway actors party. I fully acknowledge that no adult should be putting the moves on a 14 year old, but realistically, considering the context and the time and scene, I have to give Spacey a pass 30 years later.... Now, that's only if this wasn't attempted rape. From the description the accuser put forth, it doesn't sound like attempted rape. It sounds like a drunken advance. Sorry, I know it's not PC for me to not be completely outraged, but I'm being honest and realistic. I could not be the only one. That said, if a bunch of other people come out saying the same thing, that he regularly pursued kids, that would change things. But this one particular accusation, with the details we have? I really just can't bring myself to think it's that big a deal, given the specific context, and yes, I have thought hard about how much of that is my bias as a Spacey fan... I've decided that none of it is. I would say this about anyone else in the exact same situation. This sounded to me like drunk Spacey got on a bed and basically started trying to get some (likely a pretty common scenario inside that scene in 1984, among the cast of fucking Rent), but the kid got up and left because he wasn't into it. Was the incident more serious than that? Am I missing something?

    .... All that said, I would also consider the mindset of the accuser. I mean, did this incident really disturb him deeply for one reason or another? If so, that matters. I have had much more disturbing scenarios happen to me, and I'm not disturbed, but everyone's different. Why did this guy come out with this info now? Because he really feels that Spacey is a child predator? That what he did back then is a good reason to have his career ruined, because he's a predator? If so, okay... I can live with that. I would respect the perspective of the accuser. Or did he come out with this info because it's "the thing to do" right now, but if it wasn't he wouldn't even actually care about it? To me, that makes a big difference.

    I should also note that if Spacey fucking did the same thing to a 14 year old now, that would make a huge different too. No, that would be completely unacceptable. But the time and the context matters a lot IMO. I don't think that it's necessarily right to be applying today's standards to actions taken over 30 years ago.
    he wasn't actually out. he was the same as jodie foster. everyone "knew", but they never confirmed. well Jodie did eventually, but Spacey never did. until it was convenient for him. 
    Well he has brought male dates to public events and has said that he's gay in an interview before, so yeah, I would call that actually being out. He just didn't specifically advertise it.
    news to me. I thought he always answered with "none of your business". 
    12/29/19
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,748
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    JC29856 said:
    Kevin Spacey accused of trying to have sexual relations with a 14 year old boy, his reply, I was intoxicated and oh by the way I'm gay. True story.
    Even I could do better than he and his publicists.
    but it worked. all the headlines are "kevin spacey comes out as gay". very little about the admission of guilt. straight from the trump playbook. 
    The weird thing is that he was already out. I really don't understand why he or anyone is acting like he wasn't already out of the closet. It's bizarre and offensive. I have a gay friend who is a MASSIVE Spacey fan, and he's not really bothered by the "incident" at all, but is really bothered by the fact that Spacey somehow drew some weird parallel between the accusation and him being gay (which we all already knew).

    As for House of Cards being cancelled... Honestly, with them saying that so fast, I call bullshit. I think they had planned on ending the show after Season 6 all along, and just linked ending it to this scandal to make Netflix look like it cared. Just a guess on my part of course, but surely they wouldn't have acted that quickly otherwise. If it hadn't already been in the works, I think it would have taken a little more thought and planning to definitively cancel one of their biggest shows. But either way, they certainly threw Spacey under the bus by making that announcement today and working it the way they did.

    As for the allegation... Ummmm, am I the only one who doesn't really give a shit, given the context and just looking at the info available? I mean, we're talking a bunch of young Broadway actors in 1984 at a drunken Broadway actors party. I fully acknowledge that no adult should be putting the moves on a 14 year old, but realistically, considering the context and the time and scene, I have to give Spacey a pass 30 years later.... Now, that's only if this wasn't attempted rape. From the description the accuser put forth, it doesn't sound like attempted rape. It sounds like a drunken advance. Sorry, I know it's not PC for me to not be completely outraged, but I'm being honest and realistic. I could not be the only one. That said, if a bunch of other people come out saying the same thing, that he regularly pursued kids, that would change things. But this one particular accusation, with the details we have? I really just can't bring myself to think it's that big a deal, given the specific context, and yes, I have thought hard about how much of that is my bias as a Spacey fan... I've decided that none of it is. I would say this about anyone else in the exact same situation. This sounded to me like drunk Spacey got on a bed and basically started trying to get some (likely a pretty common scenario inside that scene in 1984, among the cast of fucking Rent), but the kid got up and left because he wasn't into it. Was the incident more serious than that? Am I missing something?

    .... All that said, I would also consider the mindset of the accuser. I mean, did this incident really disturb him deeply for one reason or another? If so, that matters. I have had much more disturbing scenarios happen to me, and I'm not disturbed, but everyone's different. Why did this guy come out with this info now? Because he really feels that Spacey is a child predator? That what he did back then is a good reason to have his career ruined, because he's a predator? If so, okay... I can live with that. I would respect the perspective of the accuser. Or did he come out with this info because it's "the thing to do" right now, but if it wasn't he wouldn't even actually care about it? To me, that makes a big difference.

    I should also note that if Spacey fucking did the same thing to a 14 year old now, that would make a huge different too. No, that would be completely unacceptable. But the time and the context matters a lot IMO. I don't think that it's necessarily right to be applying today's standards to actions taken over 30 years ago.
    he wasn't actually out. he was the same as jodie foster. everyone "knew", but they never confirmed. well Jodie did eventually, but Spacey never did. until it was convenient for him. 
    Well he has brought male dates to public events and has said that he's gay in an interview before, so yeah, I would call that actually being out. He just didn't specifically advertise it.
    news to me. I thought he always answered with "none of your business". 
    I'm  like a lot of people in that I thought he was already out. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    it's pretty easy to determine if a boy is 14 or 18. not at ALL difficult to figure that out. since when is being drunk a defense? i have never been drunk and all of a sudden been interested in a minor. or not been able to figure out the difference between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. if there's a question, air on the side of caution.

    plus, he's not denying it. what he is doing, is:

    -apologizing for his "drunken conduct" (in effect making it a non-apology, or at least excusing it)
    -announcing to the world in the same statement he's choosing to live life as a gay man, thus forging a line between being gay and being a child molester. something the LGBT community has fought against for decades. it's irresponsible and in poor taste at best, disgusting at worst. basically, he's deflecting, making sure the conversation is about his orientation and not his fondness for underage boys. 

    12/29/19
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    my point about "going ballistic" is that nothing is relevant except the age. the circumstances or the "culture" are irrelevant. that comment is dangerously close to blaming the parent for their potential reaction for the reason people don't come forward about abuse. 
    12/29/19
  • JC29856 said:
    coincidence that the leading voices against both have been arrested for drugs lately...Feldman and McGowan
    Feldman has been on and off again for drugs for years.  That's not a shocking story...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,700
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
    Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
    I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    edited October 2017
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
    Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
    I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
    If you really believe it, why be afraid to say it?

    that being said, I'm pretty flabbergasted how people can think that a 26 year old making a pass at a 14 year old is "not a big deal". it's fucking disgusting IMO. and just because he didn't assault the kid, it's no big deal? is this just because people are fans of Kevin Spacey or because they've been in similar relationships/situations?
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    12/29/19
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
    edited October 2017
    I keep meaning to apologize for that one time when I was 26 and tried to get with this 14 year old. 
    I have 3 things going for me, though.
    1, I was drunk - so drunk that I would not care how old a person I would try to have sex with was .  Hell, I was so drunk I don't think I knew wtf I was doing, so I should be excused for any offenses or harm I may have caused
    2, it was 30 years ago
    3, it is not like I raped him, the kid pushed me off

    He didn't deny it.  Normal people who behave in normal ways would say 'No way did I try to have sex with a 14 year old kid when I was 26!' and not apologize and say it was because they were drunk.  If you are going to come to any conclusion, how can it not be that what Rapp says is true?


    Edit -- we have a 12 year old nephew that we are raising.  I would fucking beat within an inch of his life any 26 year old man that lays down on him and tries to have sex with him.  2 years from now that offer still holds. 
    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    I keep meaning to apologize for that one time when I was 26 and tried to get with this 14 year old. 
    I have 2 things going for me, though.
    1, I was drunk - so drunk that I would not care how old a person I would try to have sex with was .  Hell, I was so drunk I don't think I knew wtf I was doing, so I should be excused for any offenses or harm I may have caused
    2, it was 30 years ago
    3, it is not like I raped him, the kid pushed me off

    He didn't deny it.  Normal people who behave in normal ways would say 'No way did I try to have sex with a 14 year old kid when I was 26!' and not apologize and say it was because they were drunk.  If you are going to come to any conclusion, how can it not be that what Rapp says is true?

    exactly. 
    12/29/19
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    I've been so drunk I fell asleep on my back in the middle of a highway. 
    I've been so drunk I slept with a girl who looked like Kirk Hammett. 

    I have never been so drunk that I tried to sleep with someone who was obviously a minor. 


    12/29/19
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,700
    edited October 2017
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
    Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
    I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
    If you really believe it, why be afraid to say it?

    that being said, I'm pretty flabbergasted how people can think that a 26 year old making a pass at a 14 year old is "not a big deal". it's fucking disgusting IMO. and just because he didn't assault the kid, it's no big deal? is this just because people are fans of Kevin Spacey or because they've been in similar relationships/situations?
    I don't share every thought I have with everyone. Especially since Kevin Spacey only mildly interests me.

    Not that it isn't a big deal. But I've only heard 1 side of a story that happened 30 years ago. I haven't followed the story very closely, but from what I heard it sounds like one incident described in 140 characters and 1 side of that story
    Not that it isn't a big deal, but again, its only 1 side of a 30-year-old story. Maybe the kid made it up, maybe Kevin assumed he was 21, maybe the kid's memory is just wrong because he was drinking too, maybe Kevin is more into 6 year old boys,  I have no idea.
    I just would like more than a tweet before sending someone back to K-Pax, which is going to affect 1000 people who weren't even around 30 years ago.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,501
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
    Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
    I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
    If you really believe it, why be afraid to say it?

    that being said, I'm pretty flabbergasted how people can think that a 26 year old making a pass at a 14 year old is "not a big deal". it's fucking disgusting IMO. and just because he didn't assault the kid, it's no big deal? is this just because people are fans of Kevin Spacey or because they've been in similar relationships/situations?
    I don't share every thought I have with everyone. Especially since Kevin Spacey only mildly interests me.

    Not that it isn't a big deal. But I've only heard 1 side of a story that happened 30 years ago. I haven't followed the story very closely, but from what I heard it sounds like one incident described in 140 characters and 1 side of that story
    Not that it isn't a big deal, but again, its only 1 side of a 30-year-old story. Maybe the kid made it up, maybe Kevin assumed he was 21, maybe the kid's memory is just wrong because he was drinking too, maybe Kevin is more into 6 year old boys,  I have no idea.
    I just would like more than a tweet before sending someone back to K-Pax, which is going to affect 1000 people who weren't even around 30 years ago.
    While I don't dispute that we don't have much information, I think the point that you're missing is that Spacey didn't deny it; thus, the argument "maybe the kid made it up" falls  kind of flat. Sounds like he knows pretty well that it did happen and he doesn't know how else to explain it away. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
    I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
    if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

    I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

    26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
    Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
    Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
    I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
    Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
    I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
    If you really believe it, why be afraid to say it?

    that being said, I'm pretty flabbergasted how people can think that a 26 year old making a pass at a 14 year old is "not a big deal". it's fucking disgusting IMO. and just because he didn't assault the kid, it's no big deal? is this just because people are fans of Kevin Spacey or because they've been in similar relationships/situations?
    I don't share every thought I have with everyone. Especially since Kevin Spacey only mildly interests me.

    Not that it isn't a big deal. But I've only heard 1 side of a story that happened 30 years ago. I haven't followed the story very closely, but from what I heard it sounds like one incident described in 140 characters and 1 side of that story
    Not that it isn't a big deal, but again, its only 1 side of a 30-year-old story. Maybe the kid made it up, maybe Kevin assumed he was 21, maybe the kid's memory is just wrong because he was drinking too, maybe Kevin is more into 6 year old boys,  I have no idea.
    I just would like more than a tweet before sending someone back to K-Pax, which is going to affect 1000 people who weren't even around 30 years ago.
    no, no one does. but you said you just "didn't want to be the first to say it". I also don't give two shits about Kevin Spacey. I don't watch House of Cards. I don't even know the last movie I saw that he was in. 

    no, we have heard both sides of it. Kevin responded to the kids' claim, and said he is "beyond horrified to hear [Rapp's] story."
      Spacey tweeted: "I honestly do not remember the encounter, it would have been over 30 years ago.
      "But if I did behave then as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior, and I am sorry for the feelings he describes having carried with him all these years."

      and then he finished it off with an obvious attempt to distract from that, "outing himself". Which he has never publicly stated before, that I know of. 

      Look, I am far from the type to jump on celebrities when something like this happens. I don't care for celebrity in most cases, I just think they are normal people with a different job, and deserve privacy and respect like anyone else. 

      But I was very unimpressed with how Spacey handled this. He basically tied same sex child molestation with being homosexual, which is incredibly damaging to the LGBT community. They have reason to be outraged about this. Not to mention excusing his behaviour because he was drunk. Ick. All of it just gives me an "ick" feeling. 
      12/29/19
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      PJ_Soul said:
      PJ_Soul said:
      I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
      I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
      if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

      I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

      26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
      Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
      Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
      it's pretty easy to determine if a boy is 14 or 18. not at ALL difficult to figure that out. since when is being drunk a defense? i have never been drunk and all of a sudden been interested in a minor. or not been able to figure out the difference between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. if there's a question, air on the side of caution.

      plus, he's not denying it. what he is doing, is:

      -apologizing for his "drunken conduct" (in effect making it a non-apology, or at least excusing it)
      -announcing to the world in the same statement he's choosing to live life as a gay man, thus forging a line between being gay and being a child molester. something the LGBT community has fought against for decades. it's irresponsible and in poor taste at best, disgusting at worst. basically, he's deflecting, making sure the conversation is about his orientation and not his fondness for underage boys. 

      If he had raped or assaulted the kid I would be singing a different tune. But he didn't. Also, he didn't deny it, but he didn't really confirm it either. He said he doesn't remember doing it. For all we know, he didn't, and this other guy is full of shit. I'm not saying I think that, but I acknowledge that it's not outside the realm of possibilities.

      Yes, as I already said, it's this whole "oh btw I'm gay" thing that I'm much more appalled by. He must have been in some state of panic or something when he wrote that crazy statement. It is both offensive and doesn't make any sense.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      :lol:
      Ridiculous. 


      The love he receives is the love that is saved
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      mace1229 said:
      PJ_Soul said:
      PJ_Soul said:
      I think what he did was fucked up.  If it were a guy to a girl in the same circumstances it would be seen as bad, imo.  
      I disagree, if you mean everything else was also equal. I don't think the gender of the accuser is relevant at all. I also think that if it happened today it would be completely unacceptable. But man, Broadway actors in 1984? That is a whoooole other world, and I think that is actually relevant, based on the info we have (i.e. it was an advance, not an assault... If it were an assault, I wouldn't be saying this).
      if a 26 year old man/woman put the moves on my 14 year old daughter, was drunk/sober or a broadway actor/construction worker, I'd go BALLISTIC. none of those details is relevant except the ages of those involved. 

      I was 17 and nearly dated a 14 year old. I felt weird about it. even though she seemed older than 14, there seemed something off about it. 

      26? FUCK NO. that's called pedophilia. 
      Yeah, that's why us 14 year old girls didn't tell our parents anything.
      Also, again, pedophilia? How do we even know if Spacey knew the kid's age, or if he wasn't so drunk that didn't even occur to him at the time. How do we know he even know wtf he was doing? How do we know that the age of the guy had anything to do with his advance? If more people come out and say that he tried to get with kids, then yeah, he's a pedophile. I don't think this one incident proves that (we don't even know it really happened, for that matter, though I'm not inclined to argue that).
      I actually agree with all of your posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.
      Not that it isn't gross, but there's so much we don't know. And from what little I did here it was one advance that the kid had no trouble resisting. I wouldn't be ready to label him a pedophile from this.
      I'm not a Spacey fan. I definitely wouldn't be inviting him to my kid's birthday party. I think it sucks for the 1000 other people on the show who rely on this for work that they cancel it. I have friends in the business who are grips and assistance to producers and stuff, I'd be pissed if I was out of a job for one thing the star did 30 years ago.
      I understand why you didn't want to be the first to say it. I almost didn't myself, but I thought "fuck it". And that was because I thought most would probably trash my opinion on the matter in a way that  would make me come off as someone who is okay with pedophilia. "Fuck it." ;) Of course I'm not. I'm really just being objective, and I do believe that context is everything.
      I dunno, maybe my option is tainted by the fact that when I was that age TONS of adults made advancements towards me. And I didn't care about it then, and I don't care about it now. If I'm given the opportunity to say no and leave, then I never felt it mattered much. I still think that. So some drunk horn dog pervy perv hit me up... I walked away. End of story. Maybe some men aren't aware of just how many horny dudes there are out there who just act without thinking in this way when they're trashed. It is common as fuck. Again, as long as they aren't assaulting or forcing or raping, I can't say it outrages me. Not when you're talking teenagers. And unless there is an established pattern that focuses exclusively on a certain young age group, I don't think of that as pedophilia. If we were talking about younger people, yeah, that's fucked up. But a lot of teens are involved in highly sexualized and inebriated social scenes, and shit like this happens. And it is hard to imagine a more sexualized and inebriated scene than the one that was probably created by the Broadway cast of Rent. It only really feels out of control to me when someone gets hurt. Did this accuser get hurt in some way? Maybe. If he did, as I said, that would change everything.

      As for the show being "cancelled". No way is it ending because of this. They are just presenting it that way to make themselves look good. I seriously doubt anyone is losing a job that they would have kept otherwise IMO. I mean, that's obviously just a guess, but given the circumstances, it seems like the most likely scenario by far.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      They halted production because of this.  You think they are paying all of the people for work this week and however long it takes them to resume?  (if they resume?)  That is not the way it works.

      Did older men (post college age) pick you up when you were 14 and they were drunk, carry you into a room where nobody else was, and proceed to lay down on top of you?
      Because that would be fucked up and I am sorry if that happened to you.
      Kevin Spacey is a walking,talking, pile of excrement.

      The love he receives is the love that is saved
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      They halted production because of this.  You think they are paying all of the people for work this week and however long it takes them to resume?  (if they resume?)  That is not the way it works.

      Did older men (post college age) pick you up when you were 14 and they were drunk, carry you into a room where nobody else was, and proceed to lay down on top of you?
      Because that would be fucked up and I am sorry if that happened to you.
      Kevin Spacey is a walking,talking, pile of excrement.

      Yes, men of all ages tried to get with me at that age. Geez, 26 is still on the low end of the age scale, and yes, their advances were very forward. Don't be sorry it happened to me please. I always had full control, because we're talking about advances, not assaults. I was able to say no and leave, and I always did. I have also been sexually assaulted several times. I know the difference and where that line is as well as anyone I guess.
      Again, if we find out this is a pattern with Spacey, totally different. If this was a one off, yeah, I don't think it's such a big deal it should ruin his life 30+ years later. I hope it's clear I'm not saying it's okay. I just also think it's not the massive, heinous crime that everyone is making it out to be.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      You are clear, we just disagree. 
      People "make mistakes" that are actually mistakes when they are drunk and they pay the price forever.  I don't believe for one second that he "made a mistake" here -- if you were 14 and physically touched you that were 26 they all deserve the same that he does.  To have their bullshit exposed.  If they make a living off from how other people perceive them, people should know they are pieces of shit.  If that ruins their lives, so be it. 
      Dude is still gonna be rich -- hopefully this stops him from doing it again....or helps someone else come forward and shine a light on him. 
      The love he receives is the love that is saved
    • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,700
      edited October 2017
      PJ_Soul said:
      They halted production because of this.  You think they are paying all of the people for work this week and however long it takes them to resume?  (if they resume?)  That is not the way it works.

      Did older men (post college age) pick you up when you were 14 and they were drunk, carry you into a room where nobody else was, and proceed to lay down on top of you?
      Because that would be fucked up and I am sorry if that happened to you.
      Kevin Spacey is a walking,talking, pile of excrement.

      Yes, men of all ages tried to get with me at that age. Geez, 26 is still on the low end of the age scale, and yes, their advances were very forward. Don't be sorry it happened to me please. I always had full control, because we're talking about advances, not assaults. I was able to say no and leave, and I always did. I have also been sexually assaulted several times. I know the difference and where that line is as well as anyone I guess.
      Again, if we find out this is a pattern with Spacey, totally different. If this was a one off, yeah, I don't think it's such a big deal it should ruin his life 30+ years later. I hope it's clear I'm not saying it's okay. I just also think it's not the massive, heinous crime that everyone is making it out to be.
      I think the key that made me agree with most of what you said is it being a one-off thing. That and really have no information pretty much at all.
      Like why was a 14-year-old at a party like this? Would it have been reasonable for someone to assume he was 18 or 20? Were they very close and he knew exactly his age? Too many unknowns, and Spacey isnt talking about it, and the only information is limited to tweets. 

      And for the celebs like Rosie who say he;s just one on a long list, well if you are purposefully helping to keep the secret then shame on them, they are just as sick as anyone else.
      Way to go Rosie, help those pedos keep it up (no pun intended).
      Post edited by mace1229 on
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      I agree on Rosie.  As stated previously I cannot stand her.  This sounds like something she would say/do....it fits.
      The love he receives is the love that is saved
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      Yeah, If it really was a one-off, then that could actually be a drunken mistake. And yes, I do think that the fact that it was in 1984 makes a difference, because perceptions were different back then. How people treated younger people was different back then. And yes, I do think the fact that it happened inside the Broadway scene in that era makes a difference too. To apply today's standards to society more than 30 years ago just doesn't make too much sense to me. Even just general perception revolving around sexuality as well as young people were way different back then. Add to that the differences created by a very specific and very sexualized sub-culture (two "sub-cultures", actually. God knows things have changes insanely for the gay community since then) ... yeah, looking at all that through regular Joe 2017 glasses just doesn't quite ring true to me here.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • tbergstbergs Posts: 6,101
      edited October 2017
      I can't believe the people on here who are blowing this off. If this was about Trump with the same age parameters, people would lose their shit, even if there were no other reports of similar behavior. 1984 wasn't medieval times. Things like this are more hidden and covered up in modern times, but that didn't mean it wasn't bad then and isn't still bad now. Imagine being 14 and this happening. That could completely Fuck you up. It's no surprise so many child stars became drug addicts or committed suicide. This is the shit that's been going on for decades. It's all disgusting.
      Post edited by tbergs on
      It's a hopeless situation...
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      I have thought long and hard about whether or not my views would change if it was someone I don't like. I have come to the conclusion that no, if everything else was exactly the same, but it was someone I hated, I would feel the exact same way. Again, if it's a pattern, totally different. If it was really a one time thing at a wrap party between fellow cast members (which I'm sure blurs some social norms too), nope, that's a fucking shitty mistake. It's something he shouldn't have done obviously, but not something that should ruin his life 30+ years later. Not unless it was/is a habit of his. I'll wait to see if it is. And seriously, nobody is fucking killing themselves because a 26 year old made a sexual advance at a party. What I can't believe is how everyone is blowing it all completely out of proportion, given the information we have. That does not mean I think it's fine.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      Not a mistake, I think more will come out, where there is smoke there is fire
      Being drunk is not an excuse now, nor was it in 1984.  If you punch someone, not an excuse.  Rape?  Murder?  Driving?  Nope.  Poor judgement goes with excessive booze...fact.  You spin the wheel you accept the consequences.  You wouldn't try to fuck a little kid as a man unless you are into that.
      I could not disagree more with the people that want to give him another chance or a pass on this or even the benefit of the doubt.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I will shut up about it now after one more thing:
      I believe Spacey is a filthy dog who deserves everything he has coming to him over the coming weeks/months. 
      The love he receives is the love that is saved
    • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
      edited October 2017
      And what if the guy made it up or totally exaggerated the experience in him own mind over the years? I take it everyone here requires absolutely no proof, or even a demonstration of a pattern of behaviour now? I feel like everyone has just said screw it, let's join the mob. Where's the fucking pitch fork? As with ALL cases like this, I require more than one accusation of something that happened a lifetime ago. Show me that pattern of behaviour, show me more accusers, and I'm on board. Without at least that, nope, I'm not joining the mob. I have known good people who have been taken down by one false or exaggerated allegation. It happens. I have also known people who reformed their memories to make it much worse than reality. I have minimal standards. I don't think that is unreasonable.
      Post edited by PJ_Soul on
      With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
    • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,622
      Did you skip over the multiple responses where people indicated that he apologized for doing it?
      More will come out about this guy being a shitrag, I am sure of it.
      The love he receives is the love that is saved
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