Small Business and Minimum Wage

unsung

fife said:

another question, if there was no minimum wage would a company hire more people or just keep the profit?

If they paid $1 per hour would anyone work for them?

unsung

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

Ridiculous.  Plenty of places pay above minimum wage due to demand.  That's not a handicap to the worker.

The minimum wage prevents businesses from taking advantage of workers.

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

the market setting the price also means the job goes to the lowest bidder, which is why we have minimum wages in the first place. 

rgambs

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

This is operating under the demonstrably false (and laughable) premise that the market has magical powers.

Why did starvation wages dominate before minimum wages were introduced?  Why didn't the magical market set reasonable prices??

dignin

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

I'm surprised you're a union guy.

oftenreading

fife said:

brianlux said:

fife said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

True, and that seems to vary a lot.  We're seeing small businesses in our twon either struggle or do great.  The independent restaurants in town are the ones doing great.  Sadly, independent bookstore's values have plummeted. I'm not sure you can give one away these days. 

I think book stores in general values has gone down with the advent of ereaders and less people reading. this is the reason why when you go to places like Chapters or Indigo (do they have indigo in the usa?) who have moved strickly from selling books to have other things just as house wear in their stores

I'm not aware of any Indigo stores in the U.S. but there may be.

E-readers and fewer people reading are part of the reason bookstores are struggling but so are slave shops like Amazon and the fact that anyone with a computer and a closet can now become a "book seller" (albeit, too often run by people who know little about literature).  Add to that the fact that more and more people want everything quickly and easily. 

Still, there are those who love to browse, who enjoy the feel smell and tactile sense of a good book and who appreciate the interaction and sense of a community  that browsing in a neighborhood bookstore affords.  If we survive, we may become a last relic of nostalgia or hold the same quaint curiosity young people have for vinyl records. Or we may be the last dinosaurs of our ilk.

I hope you are not a relic, still go to bookstores about 1 or 2 times a week.  have a good relationship with a bookstore in Toronto who orders books for me that are hard to find. 

here is a question for people, if you knew a store that was giving their employees a living wage, would you be more partial to shop there or no even if it meant that their price was abit more expensive?  

Yes, I would be more inclined to shop there, assuming of course that the store is a good one and has items I want to buy. For bookstores in particular, price isn't one of the factors I consider. I look for things like selection, a layout that makes for pleasurable browsing, helpful staff, and a comfortable space. 
 

oftenreading

And sorry, Brian, but I order on Amazon if I'm sending a book as a gift. Much easier than going to the store, then wrapping it, then going to the post office. But otherwise I much prefer independent bookstores. 

oftenreading

jeffbr said:

fife said:

unsung said:

Well, if you believe that government should set pricing and wages for private companies then we obviously have different models.

Can you please still explain why you are against a minimum wage?  and yes I do believe that the government should set wages for private companies. 

Are you really proposing that the government (who is really doing a stellar job with the healthcare industry), be put in charge of determining all wages and prices in the private sector? What could possibly go wrong? Luckily we don't have any influence peddling going on in D.C., so I'm sure they'd do a fair and objective job (in secret, behind closed doors, providing their biggest donors with the highest wages and prices).

Sorry, but that would be one of the nuttier things I could imagine we'd want to do here. Our government is run by a bunch of incompetent boobs. I would never cede that sort of power and responsibility to such an inept bunch of crooks.

Set the minimum, I'm assuming; not things like wage bands for different positions. 

unsung

dignin said:

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

I'm surprised you're a union guy.

Why?  I just said I support the group to be able to stick together to determine the working wage.  That is exactly what a union is.

Association would exist without government involvement.

unsung

rgambs said:

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

This is operating under the demonstrably false (and laughable) premise that the market has magical powers.

Why did starvation wages dominate before minimum wages were introduced?  Why didn't the magical market set reasonable prices??

The market set a price.  People still chose to work at that price.

oftenreading

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

This is operating under the demonstrably false (and laughable) premise that the market has magical powers.

Why did starvation wages dominate before minimum wages were introduced?  Why didn't the magical market set reasonable prices??

The market set a price.  People still chose to work at that price.

As desperate people will do, and some businesses will take advantage of that. 

CM189191

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

This is operating under the demonstrably false (and laughable) premise that the market has magical powers.

Why did starvation wages dominate before minimum wages were introduced?  Why didn't the magical market set reasonable prices??

The market set a price.  People still chose to work at that price.

Show me anywhere where this actually occurs.  

unsung

You have people willing to work for a wage, yet insist that they should not.

Would you prefer they be on welfare, or starve?

Halifax2TheMax

unsung said:

dignin said:

unsung said:

A min wage only handicaps the worker.

No min wage means the market sets the price.

McDonalds has employees working for min wage, whatever it is ($10 for sake of this discussion).
 McDonalds is fulfilling their obligation to the wage rate set by government.  People are willing to work for that because they know that someone will take the job and McDonalds won't pay more for the same reason.

If no min wage existed McDonalds would be forced to pay what the market will bear.  If everyone stuck together for $12 then you'd get $12.  

I would still prefer to eliminate the income tax instead of raising the min wage.  Govt wants min wage raised because it would mean more revenue for govt through more taxes taken.  I prefer a person keep what they earn.

I'm surprised you're a union guy.

Why?  I just said I support the group to be able to stick together to determine the working wage.  That is exactly what a union is.

Association would exist without government involvement.

You need to read up on the Wobblies and how and why they came into existence. "If everyone stuck together" assumes you wouldn't have intimidation and threats of death from big business, like that's never happened before.

CM189191

unsung said:

You have people willing to work for a wage, yet insist that they should not.

Would you prefer they be on welfare, or starve?

I would prefer a universal basic income, which is neither

unsung

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

You have people willing to work for a wage, yet insist that they should not.

Would you prefer they be on welfare, or starve?

I would prefer a universal basic income, which is neither

Close the borders, end all other welfare first Zuck.  

Why do you want to remove all incentive for people to achieve?

Why not just end the income tax and let people keep what they earn?

unsung

Govt can't handle funding social security, now you want to expand that to all ages.

oftenreading

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

You have people willing to work for a wage, yet insist that they should not.

Would you prefer they be on welfare, or starve?

I would prefer a universal basic income, which is neither

Close the borders, end all other welfare first Zuck.  

Why do you want to remove all incentive for people to achieve?

Why not just end the income tax and let people keep what they earn?

Strangely, and mysteriously, many people achieve in the US, and some people are even in favour of social programs that help others for whom circumstances such as poor health prevent them from attaining that same high level of achievement. I wonder how on earth they do that if there is no incentive?

oftenreading

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

You have people willing to work for a wage, yet insist that they should not.

Would you prefer they be on welfare, or starve?

I would prefer a universal basic income, which is neither

Close the borders, end all other welfare first Zuck.  

Why do you want to remove all incentive for people to achieve?

Why not just end the income tax and let people keep what they earn?

But we get a good look at why there has never been a functional libertarian government. "Close the borders" and "end income tax" - both very workable solutions.