Small Business and Minimum Wage

brianlux

OK, now I have to throw this out and this is tricky because I have and am long been a proponent of a living wage:

What about small businesses that rely on help (besides just the owners themselves working) and who are trying to keep their head above water and what about high school students who often depend on jobs with local small businesses to get job experience? If the small businesses such as my wife's business which currently employs two high school kids and a couple of retired ladies who are trying to supplement their barely livable social security income can no longer afford to hire that help, what do we do? Fold and let a corporate business absorb us? (Yes, many would like that- think Amazon.) What will happen if my wife has to let go some of her help? One solution is an for an old f*ck like me to have to help out there more than I already do and at nearly 65, I'm quickly running out of steam to the point where I'm having to hugely scale down my own home-run book business. Working more for her is not long an option. We're looking down a long dark tunnel here. My wife is telling me we may never get to stop working (until we're dead, of course).

And please, don't think I'm turn-coat or going conservative. It has nothing to do with that. I do support a living wage for adults working to support themselves and/or their families.

Oh, and no, we are not allowed to hire volunteers. Our community loves my wife's business but it is facing hard times. We would be missed and there are those would would be willing to give a hand but as a business, we are not allowed to do that.

Sorry for so much about me. What about the big picture? The small businesses, the high school kids, the elderly trying to supplement a meager income? What will happen if a lot of small business jobs are lost because owners cannot afford the help? And no, I have not forgotten the importance of a living wage for adults.

mrussel1

The living wage is an important issue and it's one where the states should have more control in that outcome. I've said it on these boards and in plenty of other places, there could be an indexed federal minimum wage, that is indexed for the cost of living (COLA) of the metropolitan statistical area (MSA). For example, the Fed creates a baseline rate (Obama says $10, Hillary $12, Bernie $15?). And then there is an assessment every 3 years (or some other period time) where the CBO determines the index of the MSA.

For example, let's use Clinton's number since it is in the middle. States like AR, TN, ND, MT, etc. that have low costs of living, particularly in the rural areas, keep the $12. Their index is 1. NYC is given an index of 1.4. SF is 1.3, Miami is 1.1. That means their living wages are $16.80, $15.60 and $13.20 respectively. The economies and businesses in those high end MSA's can afford the higher living wages. I'm just making up these numbers, but you get it.

Not perfect, but it's a start and a way to allow the Fed to retain some control.

brianlux

Good ideas there mrussel. Yeah, it makes sense to asses according to where one lives. The rent for a 2BR apt. in San Francisco is $4126 a month (yep!). Up here in the foothill that average is around $900. Would make sense for wages to reflect those differences.

But I'm still not sure how to address the possibility of small business job losses / losses of jobs for high school students and elderly supplementing a fixed iincome.

mrussel1

brianlux said:

Good ideas there mrussel. Yeah, it makes sense to asses according to where one lives. The rent for a 2BR apt. in San Francisco is $4126 a month (yep!). Up here in the foothill that average is around $900. Would make sense for wages to reflect those differences.

But I'm still not sure how to address the possibility of small business job losses / losses of jobs for high school students and elderly supplementing a fixed iincome.

Yeah I picked that up in your post after I finished. For kids, you could create a different wage level for those under 18. I'm not sure if that would be constitutional or not. For the elderly, you definitely could not pay them less. They are a protected class and they are only working, most of them, because they have to work.

But you are pointing to the precise issue that conservatives and even economic moderates (like me) are concerned about with some of the policies from Sanders and even Clinton. They disproportionately affect the small business owner who has far less working capital and room for taxes. Your wife's business was small enough not to require healthcare (you may offer it anyway). But add a CA state minimum of 15, plus the Bernie's 10% business tax and your will start feeling it. I don't have the answer for what you target as your employee base. It's a tough one.

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Good ideas there mrussel. Yeah, it makes sense to asses according to where one lives. The rent for a 2BR apt. in San Francisco is $4126 a month (yep!). Up here in the foothill that average is around $900. Would make sense for wages to reflect those differences.

But I'm still not sure how to address the possibility of small business job losses / losses of jobs for high school students and elderly supplementing a fixed iincome.

Yeah I picked that up in your post after I finished. For kids, you could create a different wage level for those under 18. I'm not sure if that would be constitutional or not. For the elderly, you definitely could not pay them less. They are a protected class and they are only working, most of them, because they have to work.

But you are pointing to the precise issue that conservatives and even economic moderates (like me) are concerned about with some of the policies from Sanders and even Clinton. They disproportionately affect the small business owner who has far less working capital and room for taxes. Your wife's business was small enough not to require healthcare (you may offer it anyway). But add a CA state minimum of 15, plus the Bernie's 10% business tax and your will start feeling it. I don't have the answer for what you target as your employee base. It's a tough one.

Health care, that's just the beginning. My wife and her business partner often put their help before themselves to keep their help well and happy. They sent one of our employees out of state twice to do interviews for a documentary he is working on about a relatively obscure author (can't who yet). We're a part of the community. The giving goes both ways. Sounds quaint, maybe even conservative, but it's not. Hopefully it's what all businesses, communities and neighborhoods do.

rr165892

Wow,an issue we all seem to see the same.I knew there was one out there.
As a small business owner I already far exceed those numbers.
But I think a modified system that takes Inflation,cost of living and existing state tax burden (I don't pay state tax here in FL,my brother does in GA.So if we pay a employee the same fed rate,it's actually hurting him more,right?)into consideration. Also I like a student/ under 18 exemption.But expand it to outlaw free internships everywhere.So a smaller min applies to all full time students gaining experience in the work force.At the same time give the employer tax breaks for hiring these up and comers.win/win.

rgambs

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

mrussel1

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

mrussel1

BrianLux - I'm impressed with your wife's commitment to the community and to the employees. My probing question is whether that will have to change if min wage AND the business taxes increase from Bernie's policies.

RR - Just curious why you would want to kill unpaid internships? I've run both through my company. We do paid internships for college students, and unpaid for HS students in the summer who are trying to round out resumes. I would be hard pressed to pay 12-15 per hour for someone to follow me around from meeting to meeting.

rr165892

My reasoning is to protect the student.Many big corps abuse the Interm set up and use it as free basic labor.So maybe pay them a smaller stipend but some compensation to keep things on the up and up

dignin

rr165892 said:

My reasoning is to protect the student.Many big corps abuse the Interm set up and use it as free basic labor.So maybe pay them a smaller stipend but some compensation to keep things on the up and up

Yeah, there needs to be regulation. Without regulation there will always be companies that take advantage.

brianlux

rr165892 said:

Wow,an issue we all seem to see the same.I knew there was one out there.
As a small business owner I already far exceed those numbers.
But I think a modified system that takes Inflation,cost of living and existing state tax burden (I don't pay state tax here in FL,my brother does in GA.So if we pay a employee the same fed rate,it's actually hurting him more,right?)into consideration. Also I like a student/ under 18 exemption.But expand it to outlaw free internships everywhere.So a smaller min applies to all full time students gaining experience in the work force.At the same time give the employer tax breaks for hiring these up and comers.win/win.

Oh fear not, rr, we'll find a way to feud! LOL, just kidding. Really, at the end of the day, most of us want the same things. Comfort, friends, love, laughs, (or tears even), peace of mind, health, food water, clothing and shelter, and a good tune.

rgambs

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

I hadn't thought of that, my wife is buying an S Corp and we have no desire to pull those tricks, we can pay our fair share and still live comfortably (for us lol, most people would think we are cave dwellers lol)

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

BrianLux - I'm impressed with your wife's commitment to the community and to the employees. My probing question is whether that will have to change if min wage AND the business taxes increase from Bernie's policies.

RR - Just curious why you would want to kill unpaid internships? I've run both through my company. We do paid internships for college students, and unpaid for HS students in the summer who are trying to round out resumes. I would be hard pressed to pay 12-15 per hour for someone to follow me around from meeting to meeting.

When the going gets tougher, the community gets tighter. At least in our circle it does. For example, we are experience at lot of death in our larger circle and community* and thus the help spreads even more.

*I begin to wonder what's up with that. Look at all the musicians and entertainers dying. What's with that?

Unpaid internships are a great idea. I've done it as an intern and we've had a few high school kids at the store intern. But they only get two days and we spend more time teaching than we do get help. But that's that giving to the community thing again. No gain for us but the gain is for the community which is a good gain.

eddiec

There should definitely be compensation for small businesses. It's the same problem with organic/small growers- trying to maintain industry standards at the smaller level doesn't work or make any logical sense.

A lot of small business owners easily put in 60-80 hours a week already. This would kill a lot of incentive to open a small business. Employee wages are already tough on small businesses.

brianlux

eddiec said:

There should definitely be compensation for small businesses. It's the same problem with organic/small growers- trying to maintain industry standards at the smaller level doesn't work or make any logical sense.

A lot of small business owners easily put in 60-80 hours a week already. This would kill a lot of incentive to open a small business. Employee wages are already tough on small businesses.

Well said, eddiec! And yes, especially for organic/small growers, Their work is important, good for us, good for the planet, worth supporting at a decent level!

mrussel1

brianlux said:

eddiec said:

There should definitely be compensation for small businesses. It's the same problem with organic/small growers- trying to maintain industry standards at the smaller level doesn't work or make any logical sense.

A lot of small business owners easily put in 60-80 hours a week already. This would kill a lot of incentive to open a small business. Employee wages are already tough on small businesses.

Well said, eddiec! And yes, especially for organic/small growers, Their work is important, good for us, good for the planet, worth supporting at a decent level!

What do you guys mean by compensation for small business owners? Do you mean like additional tax credits?

eddiec

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

eddiec said:

There should definitely be compensation for small businesses. It's the same problem with organic/small growers- trying to maintain industry standards at the smaller level doesn't work or make any logical sense.

A lot of small business owners easily put in 60-80 hours a week already. This would kill a lot of incentive to open a small business. Employee wages are already tough on small businesses.

Well said, eddiec! And yes, especially for organic/small growers, Their work is important, good for us, good for the planet, worth supporting at a decent level!

What do you guys mean by compensation for small business owners? Do you mean like additional tax credits?

I guess compensation was the wrong word. I think rgambs alluded to having a tiered system that works on the amount of employees you have. This is more along the lines of what I meant.

ldent42

B-lux, where I'm from small business owners pay that type of employees off the books. (Or at least they used to. No idea what goes on these days tbh.) Not that I would ever suggest your wife's business engage in any sort of business practice that could be considered anything less than above board, of course.

But, you know them big corps with their tax havens & stuff, small local businesses having to pay a 16 year old who texts while dusting bookshelves $50 for three hours work, tomato, tomahto, right?

brianlux

ldent42 said:

B-lux, where I'm from small business owners pay that type of employees off the books. (Or at least they used to. No idea what goes on these days tbh.) Not that I would ever suggest your wife's business engage in any sort of business practice that could be considered anything less than above board, of course.

But, you know them big corps with their tax havens & stuff, small local businesses having to pay a 16 year old who texts while dusting bookshelves $50 for three hours work, tomato, tomahto, right?

She and her partner have always pretty much kept it above board. A 33 year old business isn't worth risking major legal trouble (like you say, the big guys get to do that due to the "steal a little and they throw you in jail/ steal a lot and they make you king"-- thank you, Bob Dylan-- principle). I think we're stable enough to muddle along as long as we can and if we had to we'd downsize somehow. We're all getting to an age where we'll have to personally scale back anyway. We're learning to accept entropy. So what I mostly am concerned for is the folks we're grooming to carry on with the bookstore and for it to remain a part of the community. And on a more general level, I'm concerned that small businesses including small farms can remain viable in a corporate world. It definitely requires hard work, a busload of faith (thank you, Lou Reed), hacking not packing (thank you Mr. Rollins) , and hopefully some good luck (thank you Universe).

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

rgambs

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

What is the advantage to delaying billing until the new fiscal year? I know someone with an S Corp that does that and I don't get the tax advantage.

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

Right but wouldn't you pay it at your personal marginal income tax rate rather than the business tax rate? That is if you are registered as an LLC with S election? I'm a little bit out kicking my coverage on this one, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

Right but wouldn't you pay it at your personal marginal income tax rate rather than the business tax rate? That is if you are registered as an LLC with S election? I'm a little bit out kicking my coverage on this one, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes but it doesn't matter if the profit stays in the corp or not if it is an LLC or S Corp...the owner is taxed individually whether he distributes the profit or not.

My original point was that no one is avoiding tax by pulling profits out of an LLC/S Corp because the tax is exactly the same.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

Right but wouldn't you pay it at your personal marginal income tax rate rather than the business tax rate? That is if you are registered as an LLC with S election? I'm a little bit out kicking my coverage on this one, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes but it doesn't matter if the profit stays in the corp or not if it is an LLC or S Corp...the owner is taxed individually whether he distributes the profit or not.

My original point was that no one is avoiding tax by pulling profits out of an LLC/S Corp because the tax is exactly the same.

Now I remember... If you don't take it as salary, don't you avoid your 15% FICA? I think there is a 'reasonable' rule on salary. In other words if you are showing 50k in profit, you could avoid FICA for the proprietor all together. If you made 500k in profits, you would have to show something, but probably not what you are actually using personally.

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

Right but wouldn't you pay it at your personal marginal income tax rate rather than the business tax rate? That is if you are registered as an LLC with S election? I'm a little bit out kicking my coverage on this one, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes but it doesn't matter if the profit stays in the corp or not if it is an LLC or S Corp...the owner is taxed individually whether he distributes the profit or not.

My original point was that no one is avoiding tax by pulling profits out of an LLC/S Corp because the tax is exactly the same.

Now I remember... If you don't take it as salary, don't you avoid your 15% FICA? I think there is a 'reasonable' rule on salary. In other words if you are showing 50k in profit, you could avoid FICA for the proprietor all together. If you made 500k in profits, you would have to show something, but probably not what you are actually using personally.

Only if taxed as an S Corp. An LLC is taxed like a sole proprietor unless it elects to be taxed as an S Corp.

Yes there is definitely avoidance of FICA tax by S Corps. The reasonable salary rule is supposed to keep them in check but there is definitely abuse.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

I favor a simple tiered system (that someone else would need to create lol) that implements a series of incremental minimum wages that increase with the number of employees and profit percentage.

So basically you are taking the progressive tax system (marginal income tax) and applying it to wages? Interesting. The tough thing is that small businesses have every incentive to show zero profit. Any LLC owner will tell you that they're pulling money out of the business whenever possible in order to minimize tax liability. They will 'manipulate' the system like the tax code is played a bit today.

Pulling money out for what? How is that manipulating the tax system?

It's perfectly legal but the net effect is lowering the business tax liability. You do it by moving cash between personal and business accounts.

An LLC doesn't pay tax. It's owner(s) pay the tax regardless if it is pulled out or not.

I guess you could have an LLC that elects to be taxed as a regular corp but that is also just transferring corp tax to individual tax at a likely higher rate anyway due to social security/medicare tax.

Right but wouldn't you pay it at your personal marginal income tax rate rather than the business tax rate? That is if you are registered as an LLC with S election? I'm a little bit out kicking my coverage on this one, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes but it doesn't matter if the profit stays in the corp or not if it is an LLC or S Corp...the owner is taxed individually whether he distributes the profit or not.

My original point was that no one is avoiding tax by pulling profits out of an LLC/S Corp because the tax is exactly the same.

Now I remember... If you don't take it as salary, don't you avoid your 15% FICA? I think there is a 'reasonable' rule on salary. In other words if you are showing 50k in profit, you could avoid FICA for the proprietor all together. If you made 500k in profits, you would have to show something, but probably not what you are actually using personally.

Only if taxed as an S Corp. An LLC is taxed like a sole proprietor unless it elects to be taxed as an S Corp.

Yes there is definitely avoidance of FICA tax by S Corps. The reasonable salary rule is supposed to keep them in check but there is definitely abuse.

Got it.. I think that's what I meant by "S" election as an LLC.

Not sure how we got here, but I'm smarter for it! Either way, a fed min wage of $15 will be difficult for lower cost of living MSAs. I'm a moderate by nature and a pragmatist. I'm more in favor of a $12, but adding an indexed COLA would be great if it was practical. Not sure if it is.

Gern Blansten

I agree with Bill Maher....I'm sick of paying welfare to full time employees of multi billion $$ corporations (McDonald's, Wal-Mart, etc.)

RoleModelsinBlood31

I'm for raising the minimum wage. That makes sense. The idea of a livable wage to me does not, however. I'm a small business owner and my family and I are by no means making any money off of our hard work. I do 70 hrs a week and my 66 year old mom does about 30, and she works for no pay so we can survive. I make a decent salary but it's not much- I could prob make more being a chef for big companies like I was before this.

I just know that the kids and people I hire don't expect a livable wage working here at a bakery, and they never will. They know that working here or flipping burgers or making subway melts isn't going to pay a livable wage, nor should it.

I feel responsible for my employees well being and make sure I do everything in my power to keep them happy, but if I had to pay $15 an hour minimum I know I would lay off a few people to survive.