Small Business and Minimum Wage

rgambs

pjhawks said:

it's very interesting to me to hear some of the small business owners here take on the minimum wage. i think for sure it needs to be raised but there have been some good points raised here regarding small businesses.  it has me re-thinking that it should be at $15.00.  I'm not sure now. maybe some kind of medium? it has to be higher than it currently is.

The vast majority of small businesses wouldn't be required to pay $15 and hour.
There are always exceptions for businesses that have fewer than 15 (for instance) employees or collect less than 750,000$ (for instance) in revenue.
Bakeries, bookstores, craft boutiques, hair salons, etc etc are all exempt.

brianlux

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

fife

HughFreakingDillon said:

as a guy who has very little post secondary education, and doesn't make much money, I take exception to the idea of the minimum wage being as high as $15 per hour. that's ludicrous. it will kill small and even medium size businesses at the same time as almost encouraging people to become complacent about furthering their career goals and ultimately fighting for jobs flipping burgers. that doesn't repair or build an economy.

Maybe its just me but if people are being complacent making only $15 an hour then I would wonder if that person ever had a drive to further their careers goals. 

While i believe that giving staff a working wage is a responsibility of doing business, I do agree about small business.  In Toronto, we have whats called a housing allowance for low income people so that they can pay for rent and I wonder if that is something that would work concerning employment.  for example, for small business, you get a wage allowance for $5 over what the minimum wage is. 

HughFreakingDillon

fife said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

as a guy who has very little post secondary education, and doesn't make much money, I take exception to the idea of the minimum wage being as high as $15 per hour. that's ludicrous. it will kill small and even medium size businesses at the same time as almost encouraging people to become complacent about furthering their career goals and ultimately fighting for jobs flipping burgers. that doesn't repair or build an economy.

Maybe its just me but if people are being complacent making only $15 an hour then I would wonder if that person ever had a drive to further their careers goals. 

While i believe that giving staff a working wage is a responsibility of doing business, I do agree about small business.  In Toronto, we have whats called a housing allowance for low income people so that they can pay for rent and I wonder if that is something that would work concerning employment.  for example, for small business, you get a wage allowance for $5 over what the minimum wage is. 

but what drives people to further their careers in the western world? MONEY (why I don't, I don't give a shit about how much money I have). if you can have a $15 an hour TO START job that is easy on your stress and skill levels, as opposed to 7 years of college to start at $18 per hour, why bother? you'll be in the hole for over a decade (if you're lucky) with student debt and will be working harder for the same amount of money, or even less after all is accounted for, as the kid flipping burgers. 

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

True, and that seems to vary a lot.  We're seeing small businesses in our twon either struggle or do great.  The independent restaurants in town are the ones doing great.  Sadly, independent bookstore's values have plummeted. I'm not sure you can give one away these days. 

fife

HughFreakingDillon said:

fife said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

as a guy who has very little post secondary education, and doesn't make much money, I take exception to the idea of the minimum wage being as high as $15 per hour. that's ludicrous. it will kill small and even medium size businesses at the same time as almost encouraging people to become complacent about furthering their career goals and ultimately fighting for jobs flipping burgers. that doesn't repair or build an economy.

Maybe its just me but if people are being complacent making only $15 an hour then I would wonder if that person ever had a drive to further their careers goals. 

While i believe that giving staff a working wage is a responsibility of doing business, I do agree about small business.  In Toronto, we have whats called a housing allowance for low income people so that they can pay for rent and I wonder if that is something that would work concerning employment.  for example, for small business, you get a wage allowance for $5 over what the minimum wage is. 

but what drives people to further their careers in the western world? MONEY (why I don't, I don't give a shit about how much money I have). if you can have a $15 an hour TO START job that is easy on your stress and skill levels, as opposed to 7 years of college to start at $18 per hour, why bother? you'll be in the hole for over a decade (if you're lucky) with student debt and will be working harder for the same amount of money, or even less after all is accounted for, as the kid flipping burgers. 

I don't know if money is the only reason that people try to further their careers.  I will admit that money is an important aspect of it but there are many people who have turned down more money to stay at a job that they love.  concerning the "why bother" comment, i still believe that given the option more people would want to work in a job that they love and not just a job.  maybe i am a minority here but I would not give up my very stressful job as a social worker to work in a factory even if the factory job gave me the same or somewhat less pay.  

we also have to admit that increasing the minimum wage also gives more power to people with a higher level of knowledge.  Great companies want great workers and will pay for those worker. 

anyway, back to the topic.  I still believe that government subsidies to small business to increase wages is a good idea.

fife

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

True, and that seems to vary a lot.  We're seeing small businesses in our twon either struggle or do great.  The independent restaurants in town are the ones doing great.  Sadly, independent bookstore's values have plummeted. I'm not sure you can give one away these days. 

I think book stores in general values has gone down with the advent of ereaders and less people reading. this is the reason why when you go to places like Chapters or Indigo (do they have indigo in the usa?) who have moved strickly from selling books to have other things just as house wear in their stores

unsung

I am for the eliminating of a minimum wage.

If you understood economics you'd know why.

fife

unsung said:

I am for the eliminating of a minimum wage.

If you understood economics you'd know why.

i always love statements like this.  can you explain why?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

I am for the eliminating of a minimum wage.

If you understood economics you'd know why.

You mean understand and subscribe to the one model of economics that you do. Right?

unsung

Well, if you believe that government should set pricing and wages for private companies then we obviously have different models.

fife

unsung said:

Well, if you believe that government should set pricing and wages for private companies then we obviously have different models.

Can you please still explain why you are against a minimum wage?  and yes I do believe that the government should set wages for private companies. 

brianlux

fife said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

True, and that seems to vary a lot.  We're seeing small businesses in our twon either struggle or do great.  The independent restaurants in town are the ones doing great.  Sadly, independent bookstore's values have plummeted. I'm not sure you can give one away these days. 

I think book stores in general values has gone down with the advent of ereaders and less people reading. this is the reason why when you go to places like Chapters or Indigo (do they have indigo in the usa?) who have moved strickly from selling books to have other things just as house wear in their stores

I'm not aware of any Indigo stores in the U.S. but there may be.

E-readers and fewer people reading are part of the reason bookstores are struggling but so are slave shops like Amazon and the fact that anyone with a computer and a closet can now become a "book seller" (albeit, too often run by people who know little about literature).  Add to that the fact that more and more people want everything quickly and easily. 

Still, there are those who love to browse, who enjoy the feel smell and tactile sense of a good book and who appreciate the interaction and sense of a community  that browsing in a neighborhood bookstore affords.  If we survive, we may become a last relic of nostalgia or hold the same quaint curiosity young people have for vinyl records. Or we may be the last dinosaurs of our ilk.

fife

brianlux said:

fife said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

I stand by what I've said earlier.  There needs to be some flexibility in wages, not a one size fits all.  Working full-time for a corporation?  Yes, a living wage is appropriate.  High school kid working part-time at your local used book store to make some extra cash for those summer camping trips?  You don't need a higher minimum wage and we can't afford to give it to you so we grow old working longer hours and, sorry, you get fewer.

Think outside that puny box, America.

100%. depends on the business, their net worth, etc, etc. 

True, and that seems to vary a lot.  We're seeing small businesses in our twon either struggle or do great.  The independent restaurants in town are the ones doing great.  Sadly, independent bookstore's values have plummeted. I'm not sure you can give one away these days. 

I think book stores in general values has gone down with the advent of ereaders and less people reading. this is the reason why when you go to places like Chapters or Indigo (do they have indigo in the usa?) who have moved strickly from selling books to have other things just as house wear in their stores

I'm not aware of any Indigo stores in the U.S. but there may be.

E-readers and fewer people reading are part of the reason bookstores are struggling but so are slave shops like Amazon and the fact that anyone with a computer and a closet can now become a "book seller" (albeit, too often run by people who know little about literature).  Add to that the fact that more and more people want everything quickly and easily. 

Still, there are those who love to browse, who enjoy the feel smell and tactile sense of a good book and who appreciate the interaction and sense of a community  that browsing in a neighborhood bookstore affords.  If we survive, we may become a last relic of nostalgia or hold the same quaint curiosity young people have for vinyl records. Or we may be the last dinosaurs of our ilk.

I hope you are not a relic, still go to bookstores about 1 or 2 times a week.  have a good relationship with a bookstore in Toronto who orders books for me that are hard to find. 

here is a question for people, if you knew a store that was giving their employees a living wage, would you be more partial to shop there or no even if it meant that their price was abit more expensive?  

fife

another question, if there was no minimum wage would a company hire more people or just keep the profit?

rgambs

unsung said:

Well, if you believe that government should set pricing and wages for private companies then we obviously have different models.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

rgambs

unsung said:

I am for the eliminating of a minimum wage.

If you understood economics you'd know why.

If you read a history book you'd understand how silly that sounds.

jeffbr

fife said:

unsung said:

Well, if you believe that government should set pricing and wages for private companies then we obviously have different models.

Can you please still explain why you are against a minimum wage?  and yes I do believe that the government should set wages for private companies. 

Are you really proposing that the government (who is really doing a stellar job with the healthcare industry), be put in charge of determining all wages and prices in the private sector? What could possibly go wrong? Luckily we don't have any influence peddling going on in D.C., so I'm sure they'd do a fair and objective job (in secret, behind closed doors, providing their biggest donors with the highest wages and prices).

Sorry, but that would be one of the nuttier things I could imagine we'd want to do here. Our government is run by a bunch of incompetent boobs. I would never cede that sort of power and responsibility to such an inept bunch of crooks.

Cliffy6745

unsung said:

I am for the eliminating of a minimum wage.

If you understood economics you'd know why.

Damn, dude.  You are so much smarter than everyone here