That's pretty pedestrian. Jeter is known to have horrible range and goes out of his way to make routine plays look flashy. According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference’s Total Zone, Jeter's shoddy defense has COST his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs.
Here are two Pedroia plays that are superior to that limp-wristed Jeter flip, alone.
Post edited by mattsavard on
Memphis '94 / Charlotte '96 / Birmingham '98 / Knoxville '98 / Memphis '00 / Nashville '00 / Nashville '03 / St. Louis '04 / Nashville Ryman N1 '09 (EV solo) / Nashville Ryman N2 '09 (EV solo) / Memphis '09 (EV solo) / New Orleans Jazzfest '10 / St Louis '10 / Memphis '12 (EV solo) / Memphis '14 / Boston Fenway N1 '16 / Boston Fenway N2 '16 / Chicago Wrigley N1 '18 / Chicago Wrigley N2 '18 / Ottawa '22 / Quebec City '22 / Nashville '22 / St Louis '22
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born
If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Great point, if you weren't there to enjoy it 1st hand, is it the same?
Few, if any professional sports teams can compete with the Yankees' success over the last 20 years. (The Spurs maybe? I don't follow the NBA, but I know Duncan has had an amazing run. )
Few if any cities in the world have had the run of professional sports titles that Boston has had for the last 15 years.
Lolobug hit the nail in the head, we are spoiled something fierce.
That's pretty pedestrian. Jeter is known to have horrible range and goes out of his way to make routine plays look flashy. According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference’s Total Zone, Jeter's shoddy defense has COST his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs.
Here are two Pedroia plays that are superior to that limp-wristed Jeter flip, alone.
Jeter for his career is not a very good defensive shortstop, but that play is not pretty pedestrian given the circumstances, by any stretch of the imagination.
That's pretty pedestrian. Jeter is known to have horrible range and goes out of his way to make routine plays look flashy. According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference’s Total Zone, Jeter's shoddy defense has COST his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs.
Here are two Pedroia plays that are superior to that limp-wristed Jeter flip, alone.
I have been an advocate for years that Jeter is over rated. Doesn't mean he isn't a great player, he was. But he gets so much more credit than players like Biggio, Molitor, and Alomar. He was no better than any of them. He was a great contact hitter who benefitted from a great team around him and a short porch in right. He doesn't belong in the discussion with the all time greats.
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born
If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Great point, if you weren't there to enjoy it 1st hand, is it the same?
Few, if any professional sports teams can compete with the Yankees' success over the last 20 years. (The Spurs maybe? I don't follow the NBA, but I know Duncan has had an amazing run. )
Few if any cities in the world have had the run of professional sports titles that Boston has had for the last 15 years.
Lolobug hit the nail in the head, we are spoiled something fierce.
If we're counting from 96 (which puts the Yankees at 5) My memory may be off, but I think it's....
The Spurs have won 5. Lakers have won 5 as well.
Patriots 4. Denver 3
Red Sox 3. SF Giants have won 3.
Red Wings 4. Blackhawks 3
edit......blah, formatting is all messed up and I can't fix it, haha.
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Totally. Just like WWII doesn't matter at all or 9/11 either. Only things that happen right now are worth consideration. Pearl jam's 1990 shows are utterly unimportant as well. Ten? Pfft only LB matters to me!
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Totally. Just like WWII doesn't matter at all or 9/11 either. Only things that happen right now are worth consideration. Pearl jam's 1990 shows are utterly unimportant as well. Ten? Pfft only LB matters to me!
Lets turn this back into a 10C Seniority argument! Perfect segway!
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Totally. Just like WWII doesn't matter at all or 9/11 either. Only things that happen right now are worth consideration. Pearl jam's 1990 shows are utterly unimportant as well. Ten? Pfft only LB matters to me!
Lets turn this back into a 10C Seniority argument! Perfect segway!
I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again...I wouldn't trade 3 World Series titles during my lifetime and 2 Pearl Jam concerts at Fenway for anything that has happened in the Bronx.
I love when people talk about championships won 50 years before they were born
If you weren't alive for the parade the shit doesn't count
Great point, if you weren't there to enjoy it 1st hand, is it the same?
Few, if any professional sports teams can compete with the Yankees' success over the last 20 years. (The Spurs maybe? I don't follow the NBA, but I know Duncan has had an amazing run. )
Few if any cities in the world have had the run of professional sports titles that Boston has had for the last 15 years.
Lolobug hit the nail in the head, we are spoiled something fierce.
If we're counting from 96 (which puts the Yankees at 5) My memory may be off, but I think it's....
The Spurs have won 5. Lakers have won 5 as well.
Patriots 4. Denver 3
Red Sox 3. SF Giants have won 3.
Red Wings 4. Blackhawks 3
edit......blah, formatting is all messed up and I can't fix it, haha.
We could debate individual sports, and Boston can't touch hockey or basketball, but has any city ever seen titles for all 4 sports within an 8 year period?
If you wanted to count the number of conference / league finals appearances alone, the numbers are pretty god damn impressive.
To each their own, but as a sports fan, I wouldn't trade the last 16 years for anything.
More sweet Pedroia defensive porn... then back to your regularly scheduled chatter
In case you can't tell... i'm a pretty big Sox fan. Have been on field for BP.. love Fenway. Seeing my fave band or the last 25 years IN Fenway is going to be pretty damn sweet.
Memphis '94 / Charlotte '96 / Birmingham '98 / Knoxville '98 / Memphis '00 / Nashville '00 / Nashville '03 / St. Louis '04 / Nashville Ryman N1 '09 (EV solo) / Nashville Ryman N2 '09 (EV solo) / Memphis '09 (EV solo) / New Orleans Jazzfest '10 / St Louis '10 / Memphis '12 (EV solo) / Memphis '14 / Boston Fenway N1 '16 / Boston Fenway N2 '16 / Chicago Wrigley N1 '18 / Chicago Wrigley N2 '18 / Ottawa '22 / Quebec City '22 / Nashville '22 / St Louis '22
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
Cumulative career wise? Sure. He also played 2x as long... HOWEVER:
FUN FACT: Years Pedroia posted a higher WAR than Jeter: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 Years Jeter posted a higher WAR than Pedroia: 2009
Also, while Jeter averaged 3.78 WAR through his career, Pedroia currently is averaging 4.56 WAR. Assuming Pedroia plays for 19 years as well, his career WAR projects to ~86, far superior to Jeter's 71 and would put him at 47th of all time (vs Jeter's 88th)
So... objectively, an argument can easily made that Pedroia > Jeter.
Post edited by mattsavard on
Memphis '94 / Charlotte '96 / Birmingham '98 / Knoxville '98 / Memphis '00 / Nashville '00 / Nashville '03 / St. Louis '04 / Nashville Ryman N1 '09 (EV solo) / Nashville Ryman N2 '09 (EV solo) / Memphis '09 (EV solo) / New Orleans Jazzfest '10 / St Louis '10 / Memphis '12 (EV solo) / Memphis '14 / Boston Fenway N1 '16 / Boston Fenway N2 '16 / Chicago Wrigley N1 '18 / Chicago Wrigley N2 '18 / Ottawa '22 / Quebec City '22 / Nashville '22 / St Louis '22
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
Jeter? Great captain / teammate...... As far as intangibles go, there aren't many better.
I think he's slightly overrated statistically, but those intangibles put him over the top.... Hands down one of the best baseball players I'll see in my lifetime (from a die hard Sox fan).
Cumulative career wise? Sure. He also played 2x as long... HOWEVER:
FUN FACT: Excluding 2009 (when Jeter had a freak season posing his highest WAR since 1999), Dustin Pedroia has been a better player than Derek Jeter every year since joining the Red sox in 2007.
Also, while Jeter averaged 3.78 WAR through his career, Pedroia currently is averaging 4.56 WAR.
So... objectively, an argument can easily made that Pedroia > Jeter.
Totally arguable for sure. Jeter def has a bigger influence though. Internationally he was prob one of the most well known athletes during his tenure and I'm pretty sure his jerseys were the #1 selling baseball jersey of all time. It says here that during his last season 23% of ALL mlb sales were Jeter stuff. That's pretty big.
I watch baseball... you can keep your WAR, OPS, and any other stat you feel like looking up... i'm taking Derek Jeter on my team over Dustin Pedroia every single time... 1 at-bat... 1 inning... 1 game... 1 series... 1 season... 1 career... it doesn't matter, i'm taking The Captain... and I HATE the fucking Yankees
Pedroia is a really good player, love the dude, but Jeter is the man
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
We could debate individual sports, and Boston can't touch hockey or basketball, but has any city ever seen titles for all 4 sports within an 8 year period?
If you wanted to count the number of conference / league finals appearances alone, the numbers are pretty god damn impressive.
To each their own, but as a sports fan, I wouldn't trade the last 16 years for anything.
Obviously Pedroia's numbers don't stack up to Jeter's. But if Pedroia could stay healthy they for sure would. Unfortunately for him that's part of your legacy so if you cant stay healthy then that's a fair argument against you.
Yet, the biggest knock on Jeter is that he not only was never the best player in baseball, he was never even the best player on his team. In fact he was probably the 4th best Shortstop in the American League for majority of his career. He only was able to be considered the best and only started winning gold gloves and silver sluggers when Nomar was traded to the national league, ARod got moved to 3rd base, and everyone realized that Miguel Tejada was 10 years older than what his birth certificate said. Guy was great, don't get me wrong, but one of the more over rated and over blown players of this generation. There are a handful of players playing now who can do exactly what he did in his career and are well on their way to matching it.
Comments
Here are two Pedroia plays that are superior to that limp-wristed Jeter flip, alone.
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
Few, if any professional sports teams can compete with the Yankees' success over the last 20 years. (The Spurs maybe? I don't follow the NBA, but I know Duncan has had an amazing run. )
Few if any cities in the world have had the run of professional sports titles that Boston has had for the last 15 years.
Lolobug hit the nail in the head, we are spoiled something fierce.
Jeter's a bum defensively.
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
Few, if any professional sports teams can compete with the Yankees' success over the last 20 years. (The Spurs maybe? I don't follow the NBA, but I know Duncan has had an amazing run. )
Few if any cities in the world have had the run of professional sports titles that Boston has had for the last 15 years.
Lolobug hit the nail in the head, we are spoiled something fierce.
If we're counting from 96 (which puts the Yankees at 5) My memory may be off, but I think it's....
The Spurs have won 5. Lakers have won 5 as well.
Patriots 4. Denver 3
Red Sox 3. SF Giants have won 3.
Red Wings 4. Blackhawks 3
edit......blah, formatting is all messed up and I can't fix it, haha.
PM me if you can hook a brother up.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
The Spurs have won 5. Lakers have won 5 as well.
Patriots 4. Denver 3
Red Sox 3. SF Giants have won 3.
Red Wings 4. Blackhawks 3
edit......blah, formatting is all messed up and I can't fix it, haha.
We could debate individual sports, and Boston can't touch hockey or basketball, but has any city ever seen titles for all 4 sports within an 8 year period?
If you wanted to count the number of conference / league finals appearances alone, the numbers are pretty god damn impressive.
To each their own, but as a sports fan, I wouldn't trade the last 16 years for anything.
In case you can't tell... i'm a pretty big Sox fan. Have been on field for BP.. love Fenway. Seeing my fave band or the last 25 years IN Fenway is going to be pretty damn sweet.
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
all day
FUN FACT:
Years Pedroia posted a higher WAR than Jeter: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
Years Jeter posted a higher WAR than Pedroia: 2009
Also, while Jeter averaged 3.78 WAR through his career, Pedroia currently is averaging 4.56 WAR. Assuming Pedroia plays for 19 years as well, his career WAR projects to ~86, far superior to Jeter's 71 and would put him at 47th of all time (vs Jeter's 88th)
So... objectively, an argument can easily made that Pedroia > Jeter.
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
Awesome article on the guys who made the famous "Yankees suck" t shirts for those of you who know the area and Boston.
I think he's slightly overrated statistically, but those intangibles put him over the top.... Hands down one of the best baseball players I'll see in my lifetime (from a die hard Sox fan).
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/11576562/derek-jeter-new-york-yankees-jersey-top-selling-baseball-jersey-all
Pedroia is a really good player, love the dude, but Jeter is the man
A-rod's purseslap, not so much.
thanks DK
Strong 2nd Amendment supporter and advocate targeted methods of reducing gun violence, sans-infringement.
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Yet, the biggest knock on Jeter is that he not only was never the best player in baseball, he was never even the best player on his team. In fact he was probably the 4th best Shortstop in the American League for majority of his career. He only was able to be considered the best and only started winning gold gloves and silver sluggers when Nomar was traded to the national league, ARod got moved to 3rd base, and everyone realized that Miguel Tejada was 10 years older than what his birth certificate said. Guy was great, don't get me wrong, but one of the more over rated and over blown players of this generation. There are a handful of players playing now who can do exactly what he did in his career and are well on their way to matching it.