Where does this iron clad "chapo gets the final say" coming from?
Seems to me Penn gets the final say. That's how interviews work.
Yeah, I don't get it either.
Penn did not get the final say and that is not how THIS interview worked. It was agreed upon before hand that prior to being published El Chapo would approve the content and he did.
So? I don't understand why this bothers you. Him approving something to be published isn't him getting the final word. Anyone can say anything they want about him and in reaction to this thing.
Semantics. If he wanted things changed they would have been changed.
Do you think the NY Times would have published this? This type of nonsense belongs on Buzzfeed, not a publication with a pretty rich journalistic history.
So you are simply looking at this from the perspective of a media snob? If it's not good enough for the NY Times in your opinion, it shouldn't exist?
I guess, but something of this magnitude, no, probably not. I don't think Rolling Stone should have published this without the same standards they would set for any of their journalists who would cover the topic.
Have you read the story? It is a heaping pile of garbage
The Rolling Stone/Penn aspect of this is more in line with you, but the original story on El Chapo in the New Yorker was awesome and is the type of stuff I would hope to expect from Rolling Stone
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I see him as a self absorbed scumbag who beat his wife
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I see him as a self absorbed scumbag who beat his wife
That is irrelevant to the other points you're making though, no?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I see him as a self absorbed scumbag who beat his wife
Come on, everyone has a bad day. Afterall, his Dad has the most ultimate set of tools. Penn is such a jag-bag.
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I see him as a self absorbed scumbag who beat his wife
That is irrelevant to the other points you're making though, no?
Most definitely, but probably part of the reason I don't give him the benefit of the doubt.
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s, and their marriage was fucked up too. God knows what happened... but you certainly don't. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s. Maybe she didn't make it up. But maybe. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Never accused of "domestic" abuse before or after perhaps. But he had plenty of public physical altercations, especially directed at paparazzi during his Madonna years, so we know he has/had some trouble controlling his testosterone.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s, and their marriage was fucked up too. God knows what happened... but you certainly don't. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Plenty of wives and ex wives are okay with people who beat them...
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s, and their marriage was fucked up too. God knows what happened... but you certainly don't. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Plenty of wives and ex wives are okay with people who beat them...
I am not suggesting otherwise. However, plenty are not. So it's a factor to consider, especially when there are no charges and no proof.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s. Maybe she didn't make it up. But maybe. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Never accused of "domestic" abuse before or after perhaps. But he had plenty of public physical altercations, especially directed at paparazzi during his Madonna years, so we know he has/had some trouble controlling his testosterone.
You mean controlling his anger? Don't make it a "man" thing. I never blame anyone for blowing up at paparazzi. I assume they are absolutely infuriating, and while I don't condone it, I understand lashing out at them. At any rate, none of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand. If these things are influencing attitudes about the El Chapo thing here, then I call bullshit on the applicable arguments that have been put forth in this thread.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s, and their marriage was fucked up too. God knows what happened... but you certainly don't. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Plenty of wives and ex wives are okay with people who beat them...
I am not suggesting otherwise. However, plenty are not. So it's a factor to consider, especially when there are no charges and no proof.
Fair. Though the accusations were pretty descriptive...
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s. Maybe she didn't make it up. But maybe. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Never accused of "domestic" abuse before or after perhaps. But he had plenty of public physical altercations, especially directed at paparazzi during his Madonna years, so we know he has/had some trouble controlling his testosterone.
You mean controlling his anger? Don't make it a "man" thing. I never blame anyone for blowing up at paparazzi. I assume they are absolutely infuriating, and while I don't condone it, I understand lashing out at them. At any rate, none of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand. If these things are influencing attitudes about the El Chapo thing here, then I call bullshit on the applicable arguments that have been put forth in this thread.
OK, controlling his anger works for me. You're right, it isn't a "man" thing, it is a self-control thing.
And I neither like nor dislike Penn. I loved him as Jeff Spicoli, and think he's done great things in Haiti. I also think he's a bit of a self-absorbed douche. So it evens out for me.
As far as the El Chapo thing goes, I think El Chapo fancied himself a celebrity, so it is natural that he'd seek out celebrities to improve his "celebrity" creds. The interview was done by Penn and brokered by some famous Latina actress. It was an interesting article, but read a bit like a dime store detective novel. Anyway, I don't really care one way or another. I don't think he aided and abetted an enemy, and I don't think he's done anything deserving of a Pulitzer prize so no praise or damnation from me. It was an interesting piece done for a rag that is going through it's own issues of journalistic integrity. Rolling Stone has become a rock 'n roll version of People magazine.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s, and their marriage was fucked up too. God knows what happened... but you certainly don't. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Plenty of wives and ex wives are okay with people who beat them...
I am not suggesting otherwise. However, plenty are not. So it's a factor to consider, especially when there are no charges and no proof.
Fair. Though the accusations were pretty descriptive...
True... but they were made by Madonna, haha.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Think Penn knew the risks but had the fortitude to do it. Good for him. So think many see him as an offensive liberal and if he cured cancer they'd bitch. Kinda like our current president.
I don't think so. I think some people see him as an entitled celebrity with a god complex.
Who also beat his wife...
That is actually just conjecture. The charges on that were dropped, and him and Madonna are on good terms now, so for all we know, that never even happened. Madonna might have just made the whole thing up; she was kind of fucked up in the 80s. Maybe she didn't make it up. But maybe. In any case, there is literally no proof and nothing legal saying that he actually beat his wife, and he has never been accused of abuse before or after, and Madonna is okay with him.
Never accused of "domestic" abuse before or after perhaps. But he had plenty of public physical altercations, especially directed at paparazzi during his Madonna years, so we know he has/had some trouble controlling his testosterone.
You mean controlling his anger? Don't make it a "man" thing. I never blame anyone for blowing up at paparazzi. I assume they are absolutely infuriating, and while I don't condone it, I understand lashing out at them. At any rate, none of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand. If these things are influencing attitudes about the El Chapo thing here, then I call bullshit on the applicable arguments that have been put forth in this thread.
OK, controlling his anger works for me. You're right, it isn't a "man" thing, it is a self-control thing.
And I neither like nor dislike Penn. I loved him as Jeff Spicoli, and think he's done great things in Haiti. I also think he's a bit of a self-absorbed douche. So it evens out for me.
As far as the El Chapo thing goes, I think El Chapo fancied himself a celebrity, so it is natural that he'd seek out celebrities to improve his "celebrity" creds. The interview was done by Penn and brokered by some famous Latina actress. It was an interesting article, but read a bit like a dime store detective novel. Anyway, I don't really care one way or another. I don't think he aided and abetted an enemy, and I don't think he's done anything deserving of a Pulitzer prize so no praise or damnation from me. It was an interesting piece done for a rag that is going through it's own issues of journalistic integrity. Rolling Stone has become a rock 'n roll version of People magazine.
Yeah, that's pretty much where I stand. I am not offended, and I'm not invested. Though I do find the whole drug lord thing pretty interesting, so am kind of hoping something actually entertaining comes of this. Like maybe a really good El Chapo movie. My first assumption was actually that Sean Penn did this for that exact purpose, in the end, but who knows. I have always been a pretty big fan of Sean Penn as an actor (and omg, he is so good in Mystic River, which he also directed, but I like a LOT of the movies he's been in). I really never gave any thought to his personal life and still don't. But as far as the accusation by Madonna... saying it's true or half true or whatever... that was 30 years ago and a one time thing. Cliffy, do think that a person really can't change and can't be forgiven for something bad they did decades ago? I am not ready to just forgive terrible acts at the drop of a hat, but one unsubstantiated episode 30 years ago between two people I don't know and who were both probably all fucked up on drugs and alcohol at the time is not something I'm going to carry a grudge about.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What was his reputation while filming Dead Man Walking? Was he this piece of shit some people suggest he is now? Pearl Jam probably would not contribute or associate themselves with such a film if it was true.
What was his reputation while filming Dead Man Walking? Was he this piece of shit some people suggest he is now? Pearl Jam probably would not contribute or associate themselves with such a film if it was true.
Yeah, good point. Isn't he also one of Eddie's best friends?? Yeah, I think if he was a horrible, evil abuser of women that wouldn't be the case.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I like Chris Penn as well. And Michael Penn's "No Myth" is one of my favorite songs of all time. And he's married to Aimee Mann who I also adore. Seems like a pretty good group of brothers to me.
Comments
Have you read the story? It is a heaping pile of garbage
The Rolling Stone/Penn aspect of this is more in line with you, but the original story on El Chapo in the New Yorker was awesome and is the type of stuff I would hope to expect from Rolling Stone
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-tragic-farce-of-el-chapo
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
-EV 8/14/93
At any rate, none of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand. If these things are influencing attitudes about the El Chapo thing here, then I call bullshit on the applicable arguments that have been put forth in this thread.
And I neither like nor dislike Penn. I loved him as Jeff Spicoli, and think he's done great things in Haiti. I also think he's a bit of a self-absorbed douche. So it evens out for me.
As far as the El Chapo thing goes, I think El Chapo fancied himself a celebrity, so it is natural that he'd seek out celebrities to improve his "celebrity" creds. The interview was done by Penn and brokered by some famous Latina actress. It was an interesting article, but read a bit like a dime store detective novel. Anyway, I don't really care one way or another. I don't think he aided and abetted an enemy, and I don't think he's done anything deserving of a Pulitzer prize so no praise or damnation from me. It was an interesting piece done for a rag that is going through it's own issues of journalistic integrity. Rolling Stone has become a rock 'n roll version of People magazine.
I have always been a pretty big fan of Sean Penn as an actor (and omg, he is so good in Mystic River, which he also directed, but I like a LOT of the movies he's been in). I really never gave any thought to his personal life and still don't. But as far as the accusation by Madonna... saying it's true or half true or whatever... that was 30 years ago and a one time thing. Cliffy, do think that a person really can't change and can't be forgiven for something bad they did decades ago? I am not ready to just forgive terrible acts at the drop of a hat, but one unsubstantiated episode 30 years ago between two people I don't know and who were both probably all fucked up on drugs and alcohol at the time is not something I'm going to carry a grudge about.
Was he this piece of shit some people suggest he is now? Pearl Jam probably would not contribute or associate themselves with such a film if it was true.
Sean has a long way to go before he's that good.