Yes, but many, many people could do a lot more to make it non-essential. That's right Brian, I don't have a car, and I have been car-free all my life, and happily so (I did learn to drive of course - it's a necessary skill, in case of emergencies). I feel like most people are slaves to their cars. And actually some people think I'm some kind of weirdo for being car-free, which is frustrating and ridiculous. I went out of my way to make sure that this would be possible, namely by making sure my home and work were in the right place to make driving unnecessary (outside of the very occasional cab ride). And a huge bonus: I only spend about $1100 on transportation in a whole year!
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^ Not convincing enough. If you want to do a road trip how do you do it? Sorry, bus doesn't count. I am tired of being made to feel guilty of the sheer luck of being born in a first world country. I like driving, a lot. Choosing where you work is not always an option. Let alone having the foresight to know if you will need a car. I happily pass on that earning your licence to drive at 16 is a passage.
^^^ Not convincing enough. If you want to do a road trip how do you do it? Sorry, bus doesn't count. I am tired of being made to feel guilty of the sheer luck of being born in a first world country. I like driving, a lot. Choosing where you work is not always an option. Let alone having the foresight to know if you will need a car. I happily pass on that earning your licence to drive at 16 is a passage.
For a road trip whoever I'm going with will use their car, since everyone else in the world seems to drive. I'll pitch in for gas and can share the driving (why do you assume not having a car means not learning to drive?? I already said I did learn to drive; it's weird to not know how). Or just rent a car, duh. Who the fuck goes on a road trip on a bus?? You don't seem to understand how it's done. You don't choose where you live that THEN find a job. You find a job, and then try and live close to it. But why in the hell are you defensive?? I wasn't laying a guilt trip. You almost seem to be guilty already and are trying to defend yourself. I already said that it's true driving is essential for some. My point was simply that many people could do more to avoid having to drive (i.e. the people who justify owning a car by saying they need it for an occasional road trip, lol).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^ Not being defensive. You use other peoples cars to get around - when called for. As a car owner people like that get tiring after awhile. It's not even about splitting gas. I know how it works, but at times you may just have to move because of the job you choose.
^^^ Not being defensive. You use other peoples cars to get around - when called for. As a car owner people like that get tiring after awhile. It's not even about splitting gas. I know how it works, but at times you may just have to move because of the job you choose.
You were being defensive, lol. I assure you that no one minds. I don't ask them to drive. EVER. I make a point of not doing that, specifically because I don't want my choices to put others out. But at any rate, I wouldn't give a flying fuck is some asshole found my choice not to have a car tiresome. I'm tired of their fucking pollution, so I guess we're even.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
To be fair (and while I think being able to live, work, get around, without having to drive is laudable), I wouldn't put cars in the same category as general crap.
To be fair (and while I think being able to live, work, get around, without having to drive is laudable), I wouldn't put cars in the same category as general crap.
(unless you have a Smartcar )
I have to say, Hedo, I would put most cars in the category as crap since most of them are crap. Even Toyota. I have a friend who is a California State mechanic and an expert on Toyotas and he told me that the some of the Toyota dealerships were complaining that the first two or three generation Prius were built too well, that none of their parts broke down quickly enough. I knew a design mechanic many years ago who explained how an automobile could be manufactured that would last a person their lifetime with only minimal basic upkeep and repair. That car does not exist today. It's called "planned obsolescence".
PJFan, you are correct in stating that driving is essential for millions of people but is it not true that not all driving is essential, perhaps even that the majority of driving is non-essential? How many people do you know use the term "no-drive days"? Doesn't everyone have at least one no-drive days each week? I would think so but I doubt most do. How many ride share?
Again, Kudos to PJ_Soul. When I lived in the Bay Area I rarely drove. I can't do that where I live now which is unfortunate and frustrating. I chose to turn down a volunteer opportunity with one of my favorite conservation organizations because they said I would have to do a 260 mile round trip commute once a month. No way would that make sense!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't know much about engineered food. If the earth is going to have 8-10 billion people on it, does anyone think we'll need companies like Monsanto to engineer crops that are more drought resistant to feed the masses? Obviously it is a trade off to health, but is that a trade we will have to make? Do people think that we can grow food the old fashioned way and still feed 10 billion people?
Sorry if a dumb question.
Not a dumb question at all. We don't feed the 7 billion we already have.
Well weird might be a bad choice of words, but I figure it's a skill one should have (even if they never use it) for safety's sake. What if there is an emergency and you HAVE to drive? That's what would worry me. But nevertheless, good for you for not having a gas guzzler.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well weird might be a bad choice of words, but I figure it's a skill one should have (even if they never use it) for safety's sake. What if there is an emergency and you HAVE to drive? That's what would worry me. But nevertheless, good for you for not having a gas guzzler.
You figure like if there's an earthquake and the ground is splitting in half really quickly and the only way to outrun it is by getting in a car on an empty stretch of road? I mean I'm pretty sure I could figure it out in those circumstances. Right pedal means go right? I mean for actual emergencies, it's not exactly rocket science.
Gotta understand too, I live on an island. I ain't going nowhere in a hurry in the event of some kind of evacuation. If it ever comes to that I'd have better luck on foot or by boat. I mean even during the Blackout that was demonstrated pretty well.
To be fair (and while I think being able to live, work, get around, without having to drive is laudable), I wouldn't put cars in the same category as general crap.
(unless you have a Smartcar )
I have to say, Hedo, I would put most cars in the category as crap since most of them are crap. Even Toyota. I have a friend who is a California State mechanic and an expert on Toyotas and he told me that the some of the Toyota dealerships were complaining that the first two or three generation Prius were built too well, that none of their parts broke down quickly enough. I knew a design mechanic many years ago who explained how an automobile could be manufactured that would last a person their lifetime with only minimal basic upkeep and repair. That car does not exist today. It's called "planned obsolescence".
PJFan, you are correct in stating that driving is essential for millions of people but is it not true that not all driving is essential, perhaps even that the majority of driving is non-essential? How many people do you know use the term "no-drive days"? Doesn't everyone have at least one no-drive days each week? I would think so but I doubt most do. How many ride share?
Again, Kudos to PJ_Soul. When I lived in the Bay Area I rarely drove. I can't do that where I live now which is unfortunate and frustrating. I chose to turn down a volunteer opportunity with one of my favorite conservation organizations because they said I would have to do a 260 mile round trip commute once a month. No way would that make sense!
B, it's like appliances are now made. JUST enough to make you pay for it...and then pay more for repairs or a replacement.
I'm thankful my '97 Integra lasted 18 years. Hope my Scion does too!
My no-drive days are the weekends, when my hermit-like ass mostly stays in
To be fair (and while I think being able to live, work, get around, without having to drive is laudable), I wouldn't put cars in the same category as general crap.
(unless you have a Smartcar )
I have to say, Hedo, I would put most cars in the category as crap since most of them are crap. Even Toyota. I have a friend who is a California State mechanic and an expert on Toyotas and he told me that the some of the Toyota dealerships were complaining that the first two or three generation Prius were built too well, that none of their parts broke down quickly enough. I knew a design mechanic many years ago who explained how an automobile could be manufactured that would last a person their lifetime with only minimal basic upkeep and repair. That car does not exist today. It's called "planned obsolescence".
PJFan, you are correct in stating that driving is essential for millions of people but is it not true that not all driving is essential, perhaps even that the majority of driving is non-essential? How many people do you know use the term "no-drive days"? Doesn't everyone have at least one no-drive days each week? I would think so but I doubt most do. How many ride share?
Again, Kudos to PJ_Soul. When I lived in the Bay Area I rarely drove. I can't do that where I live now which is unfortunate and frustrating. I chose to turn down a volunteer opportunity with one of my favorite conservation organizations because they said I would have to do a 260 mile round trip commute once a month. No way would that make sense!
B, it's like appliances are now made. JUST enough to make you pay for it...and then pay more for repairs or a replacement.
I'm thankful my '97 Integra lasted 18 years. Hope my Scion does too!
My no-drive days are the weekends, when my hermit-like ass mostly stays in
Does anyone even repair appliances anymore? There aren't even any shops that do repairs around here anymore. EVERYTHING is disposable now.
I gotta throw this out there even though it's a pretty dumb thing to say. For as much as we are talking about changes that can be made on the individual level, and of course since there's a lot of people there's a sizable impact it could have - don't you think change on an industrial level would be a more impactful response? Have you seen the shit that goes on in nursing homes and hospitals? Talk about wasteful...
Ident, bought our fridge, stove, etc. in 1991 and never needed a repair but they need replacing (not working as they should and sure they're sapping energy). Guess we'll have to shell out a good couple thousand.
^^^ I hung on so long to my old fridge that it actually spoke to me one day and said "Hey Asshole, I don't work anymore, it is always crowded in here and I can't keep up with your demand to keep your refridgerated goods at a suitable degree. Replace me.
^^^ I hung on so long to my old fridge that it actually spoke to me one day and said "Hey Asshole, I don't work anymore, it is always crowded in here and I can't keep up with your demand to keep your refridgerated goods at a suitable degree. Replace me.
It called you an asshole?
Sorry, had to .
Brian, your pony remark - though a bit sexist courtesy of Abbey - reminded me of and made me smile at that damned Seinfeld ep.
^^^ I hung on so long to my old fridge that it actually spoke to me one day and said "Hey Asshole, I don't work anymore, it is always crowded in here and I can't keep up with your demand to keep your refridgerated goods at a suitable degree. Replace me.
It called you an asshole?
Sorry, had to .
Brian, your pony remark - though a bit sexist courtesy of Abbey - reminded me of and made me smile at that damned Seinfeld ep.
My cousin had pony!
Abbey was a little course at times, it's true, but I think the jab was equal to men and women on this one. He loved horses by the way and drove a big red Cadillac. He was a bit of an enigma.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I used to, and sometimes still do, buy stuff to fill some hole in my soul. I almost always feel guilty about it afterwards. I used to be really bad. i'd buy anything off ebay music-related that had the word "limited" attached to it. I am in the process of getting rid of most of the stuff I have that I don't need/use. I hate having STUFF. I find it actually bothers me, so I'm getting rid of it. Stuff doesn't make a person happy. at least not me.
I used to, and sometimes still do, buy stuff to fill some hole in my soul. I almost always feel guilty about it afterwards. I used to be really bad. i'd buy anything off ebay music-related that had the word "limited" attached to it. I am in the process of getting rid of most of the stuff I have that I don't need/use. I hate having STUFF. I find it actually bothers me, so I'm getting rid of it. Stuff doesn't make a person happy. at least not me.
i love you for this post i couldnt agree more with you its just clutter i rather save me money and see the world and cheer up the poor lives and happy lives in it more satisfying than junk you cant take to the grave at least to the grave you can take a good piece of mind that you made people and yourself happy by caring and helping rather than material possesions
^^^ I agree with you both about the clutter issue. Having my own book business and being remarried 10 plus years I can't/wouldn't go back to this but regarding stuff, I was most happy when I could put everything I owned including my bicycle in my old Dodge van. Not that being "tied down" doesn't have it's wonderful perks, but it was nice being "free as a bird".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I often think about shows where the premise is post-apocalyptic; how nothing material matters anymore except survival tools, and how honestly none of our shit is worth anything, except maybe sentimental value and things we use.
I don't begrudge people collecting things; I used to do it too, thinking I'd like it. Turns out I just didn't. I'm not better than a person who likes to collect, just different.
I would never, however, be interested in watching any of those hoarders shows. it is just beyond my comprehension.
I often think about shows where the premise is post-apocalyptic; how nothing material matters anymore except survival tools, and how honestly none of our shit is worth anything, except maybe sentimental value and things we use.
I don't begrudge people collecting things; I used to do it too, thinking I'd like it. Turns out I just didn't. I'm not better than a person who likes to collect, just different.
I would never, however, be interested in watching any of those hoarders shows. it is just beyond my comprehension.
HFD, you might appreciate James Howard Kunstler's post-peak oil novels, World Made By Hand and The Witch of Hebron as well as George R. Stewart's excellent Earth Abides.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Well weird might be a bad choice of words, but I figure it's a skill one should have (even if they never use it) for safety's sake. What if there is an emergency and you HAVE to drive? That's what would worry me. But nevertheless, good for you for not having a gas guzzler.
You figure like if there's an earthquake and the ground is splitting in half really quickly and the only way to outrun it is by getting in a car on an empty stretch of road? I mean I'm pretty sure I could figure it out in those circumstances. Right pedal means go right? I mean for actual emergencies, it's not exactly rocket science.
Gotta understand too, I live on an island. I ain't going nowhere in a hurry in the event of some kind of evacuation. If it ever comes to that I'd have better luck on foot or by boat. I mean even during the Blackout that was demonstrated pretty well.
No, I was thinking more along the lines of you being somewhere with a person who drove, that person becomes unable to drive and you need to help them. This isn't an uncommon scenario, really. It actually happened to my mom last year. She fell off her bike and shattered her right elbow. There were no other people around, and her phone was out of juice (other common scenarios might be car accidents, phone is broken, no signal, etc etc). Unfortunately, she was with my 8 year old nephew, so him driving her home or to a hospital was out of the question. She actually had to drive a stick shift herself, despite the fact that it was so painful she almost passed out. It was actually very dangerous. But with a little kid, no choice. Just imagine, though, if that had been an adult who didn't know how to drive with her instead. How useless would that adult feel if they couldn't get her to help?? That is why I think all adults should know how to drive (and not just an automatic! You can't just make it up as you go along if it's a stick shift). Just in case. But yeah, maybe paranoid. It just seems like a skill everyone should have, right along with swimming and riding a bike, IMHO. Using the skill, however, not at all! The more people who arrange their lives so they don't need a car the better.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^ I agree with you both about the clutter issue. Having my own book business and being remarried 10 plus years I can't/wouldn't go back to this but regarding stuff, I was most happy when I could put everything I owned including my bicycle in my old Dodge van. Not that being "tied down" doesn't have it's wonderful perks, but it was nice being "free as a bird".
I also hate clutter. My rule is that if I haven't used it within the past year (excluding things like tools and other shit that you kind of need to have around just in case), I get rid of it. This has lead me to almost be a minimalist, and I love it. No CRAP to deal with. Everything is tidy, no stuffed closets or cupboards or anything like that. Just the things I actually need and use. A simple life is a happy life IMHO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^ I agree with you both about the clutter issue. Having my own book business and being remarried 10 plus years I can't/wouldn't go back to this but regarding stuff, I was most happy when I could put everything I owned including my bicycle in my old Dodge van. Not that being "tied down" doesn't have it's wonderful perks, but it was nice being "free as a bird".
I also hate clutter. My rule is that if I haven't used it within the past year (excluding things like tools and other shit that you kind of need to have around just in case), I get rid of it. This has lead me to almost be a minimalist, and I love it. No CRAP to deal with. Everything is tidy, no stuffed closets or cupboards or anything like that. Just the things I actually need and use. A simple life is a happy life IMHO.
something I once read by a home organization "expert" is that the rule of thumb is 6 months and pitch it (save for annual decorations, and tools like you mentioned, etc). I am going to try to do this. And soon. With my daughters, much bigger task.
^^^ This is all good advice. I regularly de-clutter, sometimes six months is too long. Any dollar store stuff I buy only last a few days anyway so I am good there. I enjoy throwing garbage out of the house.
HFD - To your earlier comment about not being able to watch the Hoarders show. It is very hard to watch because you can't believe that it is real. Once you watch one episode you will forever be scanning your home for shit to throw out, ha.
^^^ This is all good advice. I regularly de-clutter, sometimes six months is too long. Any dollar store stuff I buy only last a few days anyway so I am good there. I enjoy throwing garbage out of the house.
HFD - To your earlier comment about not being able to watch the Hoarders show. It is very hard to watch because you can't believe that it is real. Once you watch one episode you will forever be scanning your home for shit to throw out, ha.
I find hoarders weird because it's so difficult to believe that a lot of that behaviour is anything other than extreme laziness. I suppose I understand the compulsive issue of feeling way too much of an attachment to items and feeling an extreme anxiety about getting rid of them, but I can't wrap my mind around the fact that most of them also refuse to ever even clean anything, and live in cat shit, dog shit, their own bags of shit, and with rotting piles of food, never cleaning a single surface or window or anything else. That makes no sense to me even if they are hoarders.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
That's right Brian, I don't have a car, and I have been car-free all my life, and happily so (I did learn to drive of course - it's a necessary skill, in case of emergencies). I feel like most people are slaves to their cars. And actually some people think I'm some kind of weirdo for being car-free, which is frustrating and ridiculous. I went out of my way to make sure that this would be possible, namely by making sure my home and work were in the right place to make driving unnecessary (outside of the very occasional cab ride). And a huge bonus: I only spend about $1100 on transportation in a whole year!
Not convincing enough.
If you want to do a road trip how do you do it?
Sorry, bus doesn't count.
I am tired of being made to feel guilty of the sheer luck of being born in a first world country.
I like driving, a lot.
Choosing where you work is not always an option. Let alone having the foresight to know if you will need a car.
I happily pass on that earning your licence to drive at 16 is a passage.
You don't seem to understand how it's done. You don't choose where you live that THEN find a job. You find a job, and then try and live close to it.
But why in the hell are you defensive?? I wasn't laying a guilt trip. You almost seem to be guilty already and are trying to defend yourself. I already said that it's true driving is essential for some. My point was simply that many people could do more to avoid having to drive (i.e. the people who justify owning a car by saying they need it for an occasional road trip, lol).
Not being defensive.
You use other peoples cars to get around - when called for.
As a car owner people like that get tiring after awhile. It's not even about splitting gas.
I know how it works, but at times you may just have to move because of the job you choose.
I assure you that no one minds. I don't ask them to drive. EVER. I make a point of not doing that, specifically because I don't want my choices to put others out. But at any rate, I wouldn't give a flying fuck is some asshole found my choice not to have a car tiresome. I'm tired of their fucking pollution, so I guess we're even.
(unless you have a Smartcar
PJFan, you are correct in stating that driving is essential for millions of people but is it not true that not all driving is essential, perhaps even that the majority of driving is non-essential? How many people do you know use the term "no-drive days"? Doesn't everyone have at least one no-drive days each week? I would think so but I doubt most do. How many ride share?
Again, Kudos to PJ_Soul. When I lived in the Bay Area I rarely drove. I can't do that where I live now which is unfortunate and frustrating. I chose to turn down a volunteer opportunity with one of my favorite conservation organizations because they said I would have to do a 260 mile round trip commute once a month. No way would that make sense!
My no drive day means taking the car instead of the minivan.
Why is that weird?
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
But nevertheless, good for you for not having a gas guzzler.
Gotta understand too, I live on an island. I ain't going nowhere in a hurry in the event of some kind of evacuation. If it ever comes to that I'd have better luck on foot or by boat. I mean even during the Blackout that was demonstrated pretty well.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
I'm thankful my '97 Integra lasted 18 years. Hope my Scion does too!
My no-drive days are the weekends, when my hermit-like ass mostly stays in
I gotta throw this out there even though it's a pretty dumb thing to say. For as much as we are talking about changes that can be made on the individual level, and of course since there's a lot of people there's a sizable impact it could have - don't you think change on an industrial level would be a more impactful response? Have you seen the shit that goes on in nursing homes and hospitals? Talk about wasteful...
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
Wastefulness drives me fucking nuts!
I hung on so long to my old fridge that it actually spoke to me one day and said "Hey Asshole, I don't work anymore, it is always crowded in here and I can't keep up with your demand to keep your refridgerated goods at a suitable degree.
Replace me.
"Girls love ponies and boys love machines. Grown men and women love to walk."
-Edward Abbey
Sorry, had to
Brian, your pony remark - though a bit sexist courtesy of Abbey - reminded me of and made me smile at that damned Seinfeld ep.
My cousin had pony!
www.headstonesband.com
i couldnt agree more with you
its just clutter
i rather save me money
and see the world and
cheer up the poor lives
and happy lives in it
more satisfying than
junk you cant take to
the grave at least to the
grave you can take a
good piece of mind
that you made people
and yourself happy
by caring and helping
rather than material
possesions
I don't begrudge people collecting things; I used to do it too, thinking I'd like it. Turns out I just didn't. I'm not better than a person who likes to collect, just different.
I would never, however, be interested in watching any of those hoarders shows. it is just beyond my comprehension.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
This is all good advice.
I regularly de-clutter, sometimes six months is too long.
Any dollar store stuff I buy only last a few days anyway so I am good there.
I enjoy throwing garbage out of the house.
HFD - To your earlier comment about not being able to watch the Hoarders show. It is very hard to watch because you can't believe that it is real. Once you watch one episode you will forever be scanning your home for shit to throw out, ha.
I know.
It's crazy to think that some people live like this behind closed doors.