Colorado Springs Terrorist Attack

PJ_Soul

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

I find it pretty easy to separate the crap from the beneficial news, but the problem is not those who are able to do that. The problem is all of the people who can't or won't. I mean, let's look at the most obvious case: Fox News. That is presented as and considered by many many millions to be properly conducted news journalism by upstanding journalists. That is a BIG problem IMO. But come on, journalists with integrity or not, they are still often at the mercy of their editors. It's often not so much the journalist's work as it is what is reported and what isn't, or how much something is reported, and the tone of the reporting. That goes for print and TV reporting.

dankind

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

I find it pretty easy to separate the crap from the beneficial news, but the problem is not those who are able to do that. The problem is all of the people who can't or won't. I mean, let's look at the most obvious case: Fox News. That is presented as and considered by many many millions to be properly conducted news journalism by upstanding journalists. That is a BIG problem IMO. But come on, journalists with integrity or not, they are still often at the mercy of their editors. It's often not so much the journalist's work as it is what is reported and what isn't, or how much something is reported, and the tone of the reporting. That goes for print and TV reporting.

I am an editor (print), and without us, you'd get fed a lot of bullshit that has not been verified yet. Sure it would get more clicks and sell more papers, but if an editor cannot verify, it ain't going in print.

This held true even at the most shitty news organizations where I worked.

Fox News/CNN/CNBC, hell, even WABC and KABC infotainers share agents with Hollywood actors. Maybe a handful of them (if that) went to J school.

ldent42

I want links dankind. Having recommended news sources is never a bad thing.

dankind

ldent42 (and mickeyrat?), the most honest sources for breaking news are still the wires. They are human, and they do fuck up from time to time. But it's never because they are trying to push an agenda; it's usually because an editor hasn't looked at the story yet and the field journalist was given publishing privileges. It happens.

ldent42

The wires? Like aP?

mickeyrat

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

So much clickbait "journalism "

I drive a truck. Off time while on the road doesnt leave as much time for me to seek more accurate journalism out as others might otherwise have. Would love to be better informed than I am able to be now.So absolutely pm the sites. Would be greatly appreciated .

Longing for the first to be accurate kind of pieces even if it means waiting (egads) while facts are gathered and disseminated. As opposed to the first to get a like with teaser openings that are more editorial in nature. Its on me , but my primary access to news orgs is via adbook.

PJ_Soul

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

I find it pretty easy to separate the crap from the beneficial news, but the problem is not those who are able to do that. The problem is all of the people who can't or won't. I mean, let's look at the most obvious case: Fox News. That is presented as and considered by many many millions to be properly conducted news journalism by upstanding journalists. That is a BIG problem IMO. But come on, journalists with integrity or not, they are still often at the mercy of their editors. It's often not so much the journalist's work as it is what is reported and what isn't, or how much something is reported, and the tone of the reporting. That goes for print and TV reporting.

I am an editor (print), and without us, you'd get fed a lot of bullshit that has not been verified yet. Sure it would get more clicks and sell more papers, but if an editor cannot verify, it ain't going in print.

This held true even at the most shitty news organizations where I worked.

Fox News/CNN/CNBC, hell, even WABC and KABC infotainers share agents with Hollywood actors. Maybe a handful of them (if that) went to J school.

Sorry, I didn't mean that as an insult to editors (I also used to be one!). That depends on the editor, obviously. Some are good, some are scum, just like with most professions.

dankind

ldent42 said:

The wires? Like aP?

mickeyrat said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

So much clickbait "journalism "

I drive a truck. Off time while on the road doesnt leave as much time for me to seek more accurate journalism out as others might otherwise have. Would love to be better informed than I am able to be now.So absolutely pm the sites. Would be greatly appreciated .

Longing for the first to be accurate kind of pieces even if it means waiting (egads) while facts are gathered and disseminated. As opposed to the first to get a like with teaser openings that are more editorial in nature. Its on me , but my primary access to news orgs is via adbook.

Yeah, ldent42, like AP. Mickey and ldent42, the wires are the best sources of BS-free/just-the-facts news by journalists "in the trenches" (sometimes literally): AP Big Story (http://bigstory.ap.org), Reuters (http://www.reuters.com), and Agence France-Presse (http://www.afp.com/en/news/) are my big three. Dow Jones Newswires (sub required) still has some value as well, despite what many think. Tass (http://tass.ru/en) for Russia and Xinhua (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/mobile/index.htm) for China, but I take that reporting with a grain of salt since it's likely been run through institutional and governmental censors. Yonhap (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr) for Korea is solid for China and Asia.

Other US news sites that I read are affiliated with newspapers that everybody else reads. I won't mention those here because although they all have fantastic reporting, they also do things like back political candidates, which is a demerit, imho.

For international news, as I mentioned, the wires for Russia and China are heavily censored, and the papers/websites are highly opinionated. The same can be said for most Middle Eastern news agencies and newspapers/websites. I have my go-tos for all regions, but they are politicized so I wouldn't recommend them here. I generally just try to stick with the big three.

For thread integrity, there are so many reasons why the terrorist attack on a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, Colo., didn't receive much public attention, and it has nothing to do with journalism or media coverage. The journalists had it covered, and the sensationalists dug into all the angles similar to what they do for all these types of incidents. The audience just didn't respond, so it gets pushed off the cycle. All the reasons that I can think of for the public citizenry's willful ignorance are deplorable and/or terrifying.

OnWis97

This is a terrorist:
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/evangelist_urged_1_8_million_followers_to_make_planned_parenthood_doctors_afraid_for_their_lives

brianlux

OnWis97 said:

This is a terrorist:
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/evangelist_urged_1_8_million_followers_to_make_planned_parenthood_doctors_afraid_for_their_lives

Yes, OnWis, it is. And some of the worst we've produced domestically in some time. One giant step back.

ldent42

dankind said:

ldent42 said:

The wires? Like aP?

mickeyrat said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

So much clickbait "journalism "

I drive a truck. Off time while on the road doesnt leave as much time for me to seek more accurate journalism out as others might otherwise have. Would love to be better informed than I am able to be now.So absolutely pm the sites. Would be greatly appreciated .

Longing for the first to be accurate kind of pieces even if it means waiting (egads) while facts are gathered and disseminated. As opposed to the first to get a like with teaser openings that are more editorial in nature. Its on me , but my primary access to news orgs is via adbook.

Yeah, ldent42, like AP. Mickey and ldent42, the wires are the best sources of BS-free/just-the-facts news by journalists "in the trenches" (sometimes literally): AP Big Story (http://bigstory.ap.org), Reuters (http://www.reuters.com), and Agence France-Presse (http://www.afp.com/en/news/) are my big three. Dow Jones Newswires (sub required) still has some value as well, despite what many think. Tass (http://tass.ru/en) for Russia and Xinhua (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/mobile/index.htm) for China, but I take that reporting with a grain of salt since it's likely been run through institutional and governmental censors. Yonhap (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr) for Korea is solid for China and Asia.

Other US news sites that I read are affiliated with newspapers that everybody else reads. I won't mention those here because although they all have fantastic reporting, they also do things like back political candidates, which is a demerit, imho.

For international news, as I mentioned, the wires for Russia and China are heavily censored, and the papers/websites are highly opinionated. The same can be said for most Middle Eastern news agencies and newspapers/websites. I have my go-tos for all regions, but they are politicized so I wouldn't recommend them here. I generally just try to stick with the big three.

For thread integrity, there are so many reasons why the terrorist attack on a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, Colo., didn't receive much public attention, and it has nothing to do with journalism or media coverage. The journalists had it covered, and the sensationalists dug into all the angles similar to what they do for all these types of incidents. The audience just didn't respond, so it gets pushed off the cycle. All the reasons that I can think of for the public citizenry's willful ignorance are deplorable and/or terrifying.

I realize this is OT since it's actually about the SB shooting but it reminded me @dankind 's words on journalistic integrity.

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/what-the-hell-just-happened-on-msnbc/418893/?utm_source=SFTwitter

What the Hell Just Happened on MSNBC and CNN?
A baffling, surreal scene just played out on the two networks, where the landlord of the San Bernardino shooting suspects apparently allowed reporters into their apartment.

The result was disturbing. On live national television, reporters sifted through the remains of the lives of Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik. They picked over children’s toys. They held up photos, speculating about whether the woman depicted in one might be Malik. They displayed Social Security cards and driver’s licenses with readily identifiable information—and not just for the deceased suspects:

mickeyrat

Grossly irresponsible.

dudeman

Jesus! Those are pretty deplorable actions, even for the media.

InHiding80

Gotta love that con logic of "Don't trample on my 2nd amendment rights but I can trample on your constitutional right to choose."

ldent42

InHiding80 said:

Gotta love that con logic of "Don't trample on my 2nd amendment rights but I can trample on your constitutional right to choose."

I love that you've said that because I've been reading all day about the parallels. There's a democrat in Missouri that put a bill out there for a vote that put Missouri's restrictions on abortion recipients into gun-buying juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust to demonstrate how stupid this whole thing is.

PJfanwillneverleave1

ldent42 said:

dankind said:

ldent42 said:

The wires? Like aP?

mickeyrat said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

So much clickbait "journalism "

I drive a truck. Off time while on the road doesnt leave as much time for me to seek more accurate journalism out as others might otherwise have. Would love to be better informed than I am able to be now.So absolutely pm the sites. Would be greatly appreciated .

Longing for the first to be accurate kind of pieces even if it means waiting (egads) while facts are gathered and disseminated. As opposed to the first to get a like with teaser openings that are more editorial in nature. Its on me , but my primary access to news orgs is via adbook.

Yeah, ldent42, like AP. Mickey and ldent42, the wires are the best sources of BS-free/just-the-facts news by journalists "in the trenches" (sometimes literally): AP Big Story (http://bigstory.ap.org), Reuters (http://www.reuters.com), and Agence France-Presse (http://www.afp.com/en/news/) are my big three. Dow Jones Newswires (sub required) still has some value as well, despite what many think. Tass (http://tass.ru/en) for Russia and Xinhua (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/mobile/index.htm) for China, but I take that reporting with a grain of salt since it's likely been run through institutional and governmental censors. Yonhap (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr) for Korea is solid for China and Asia.

Other US news sites that I read are affiliated with newspapers that everybody else reads. I won't mention those here because although they all have fantastic reporting, they also do things like back political candidates, which is a demerit, imho.

For international news, as I mentioned, the wires for Russia and China are heavily censored, and the papers/websites are highly opinionated. The same can be said for most Middle Eastern news agencies and newspapers/websites. I have my go-tos for all regions, but they are politicized so I wouldn't recommend them here. I generally just try to stick with the big three.

For thread integrity, there are so many reasons why the terrorist attack on a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, Colo., didn't receive much public attention, and it has nothing to do with journalism or media coverage. The journalists had it covered, and the sensationalists dug into all the angles similar to what they do for all these types of incidents. The audience just didn't respond, so it gets pushed off the cycle. All the reasons that I can think of for the public citizenry's willful ignorance are deplorable and/or terrifying.

I realize this is OT since it's actually about the SB shooting but it reminded me @dankind 's words on journalistic integrity.

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/what-the-hell-just-happened-on-msnbc/418893/?utm_source=SFTwitter

What the Hell Just Happened on MSNBC and CNN?
A baffling, surreal scene just played out on the two networks, where the landlord of the San Bernardino shooting suspects apparently allowed reporters into their apartment.

The result was disturbing. On live national television, reporters sifted through the remains of the lives of Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik. They picked over children’s toys. They held up photos, speculating about whether the woman depicted in one might be Malik. They displayed Social Security cards and driver’s licenses with readily identifiable information—and not just for the deceased suspects:

How is this even remotely close to being disturbing?
WTF?

ldent42

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

ldent42 said:

dankind said:

ldent42 said:

The wires? Like aP?

mickeyrat said:

dankind said:

Mickey, I could, but I think that you, PJ_Soul, Brian and Hedo are all smart enough to separate the wheat (journalism) from the chaff (infotainment). I assume that you and Hedo were talking about the latter, since you used the catch-all term "media" and it seemed as though Hedo was taking about the local TV news. PJ_Soul and Brian used the term "journalists," though, and that is a disservice to a noble, honorable, important profession without which our world would be much worse off than it is already.

(If you honestly don't know where to find news that is reported with integrity, I'll pm you some links. I didn't want to insult your intelligence by taking you seriously when it seemed as though you were being sarcastic.)

So much clickbait "journalism "

I drive a truck. Off time while on the road doesnt leave as much time for me to seek more accurate journalism out as others might otherwise have. Would love to be better informed than I am able to be now.So absolutely pm the sites. Would be greatly appreciated .

Longing for the first to be accurate kind of pieces even if it means waiting (egads) while facts are gathered and disseminated. As opposed to the first to get a like with teaser openings that are more editorial in nature. Its on me , but my primary access to news orgs is via adbook.

Yeah, ldent42, like AP. Mickey and ldent42, the wires are the best sources of BS-free/just-the-facts news by journalists "in the trenches" (sometimes literally): AP Big Story (http://bigstory.ap.org), Reuters (http://www.reuters.com), and Agence France-Presse (http://www.afp.com/en/news/) are my big three. Dow Jones Newswires (sub required) still has some value as well, despite what many think. Tass (http://tass.ru/en) for Russia and Xinhua (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/mobile/index.htm) for China, but I take that reporting with a grain of salt since it's likely been run through institutional and governmental censors. Yonhap (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr) for Korea is solid for China and Asia.

Other US news sites that I read are affiliated with newspapers that everybody else reads. I won't mention those here because although they all have fantastic reporting, they also do things like back political candidates, which is a demerit, imho.

For international news, as I mentioned, the wires for Russia and China are heavily censored, and the papers/websites are highly opinionated. The same can be said for most Middle Eastern news agencies and newspapers/websites. I have my go-tos for all regions, but they are politicized so I wouldn't recommend them here. I generally just try to stick with the big three.

For thread integrity, there are so many reasons why the terrorist attack on a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, Colo., didn't receive much public attention, and it has nothing to do with journalism or media coverage. The journalists had it covered, and the sensationalists dug into all the angles similar to what they do for all these types of incidents. The audience just didn't respond, so it gets pushed off the cycle. All the reasons that I can think of for the public citizenry's willful ignorance are deplorable and/or terrifying.

I realize this is OT since it's actually about the SB shooting but it reminded me @dankind 's words on journalistic integrity.

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/12/what-the-hell-just-happened-on-msnbc/418893/?utm_source=SFTwitter

What the Hell Just Happened on MSNBC and CNN?
A baffling, surreal scene just played out on the two networks, where the landlord of the San Bernardino shooting suspects apparently allowed reporters into their apartment.

The result was disturbing. On live national television, reporters sifted through the remains of the lives of Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik. They picked over children’s toys. They held up photos, speculating about whether the woman depicted in one might be Malik. They displayed Social Security cards and driver’s licenses with readily identifiable information—and not just for the deceased suspects:

How is this even remotely close to being disturbing?
WTF?


you're joking right?

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
No I am not.
People are upset about this? Almost as upset as the killings.
Why is this upsetting people? (big eyeroll if the violated rights thing comes up)
I really don't see what is wrong. The scene was returned back to the landlord. Whatever the landlord chooses to do after that is their choice.
It is absolutely ridiculous that people are up in arms about this, to the point of having the press apologize.

mickeyrat

Nat. Enquirer type reporting? Absolutely a problem.

ldent42

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
No I am not.
People are upset about this? Almost as upset as the killings.
Why is this upsetting people? (big eyeroll if the violated rights thing comes up)
I really don't see what is wrong. The scene was returned back to the landlord. Whatever the landlord chooses to do after that is their choice.
It is absolutely ridiculous that people are up in arms about this, to the point of having the press apologize.

No one is as upset about this as the killings I dunno where you're pulling that from.
There's some dispute about whether the scene was cleared or not. Regardless it would be too soon for the FBI to be entirely "done" with the scene. The landlord disputes that he let the reporters in, says they 'charged' in, either way there's an issue there.
The PRIMARY issue is that these 'journalists' took cameras into this apartment and started filming while rifling through these people's shit and published uncensored personal identity information (social security card?!?! HELLO) and not even the suspect's information. Going through kids' stuff?! I don't get how you don't see anything wrong with this. Unless you're just trolling which seems likely, in which case I shouldn't have responded. But I mean really. Common sense here, that shit is just wrong.