Politicians sending others off to war

PJ_Soul

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.

Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.

jnimhaoileoin

PJ_Soul said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.

Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.

Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Brilliant minds that are being forced into a position they didn't choose will surely stagnate. I wasn't making the generalization that all minds stagnate in the military, but I don't think it's terribly inaccurate.
Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
That is exactly what happened to the handful I saw that went.

You have to get them drunk to get them to drop the battle rattle bullshit and have a real conversation of any depth.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

Come on up!

ldent42

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

Come on up!

I'm taking the house across the street

Thirty Bills Unpaid

ldent42 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

Come on up!

I'm taking the house across the street

Frick.

Next it'll be RG LOL.

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?

Yes.
And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.

ldent42

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.

Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.

Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece

Just to back up jn - we talked about this on here already - in my experience the recruiters target kids in low income aka failing schools specifically for infantry recruitment. The line they used on my best friend was "What are you going to do with your life? You can't afford college. Your mother sacrificed so much to bring you here and for what? So you can flip burgers at MacDonald's?" And basically how the army will help residents get citizenship, plus the GI Bill to pay for college after, and in his particular case the recruiter made it seem like he was going to be in communications but he wasn't, he was infantry. And we're talking about a 17 year old kid. Make no mistake about it, US military recruitment is a predatory process.


You know what my favorite part about it was? Yea you get your pension and your GI Bill. But good luck getting your head straightened out enough to use it.

And don't get me started on the for profit colleges preying on the post 9/11 GI Bill vets. I can't even.

What are we talking about again? Oh yea. No draft. Draft bad. Was (part of the) terrible treatment of Nam vets upon their return home due to the draft or in spite of it?

What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?

Yes.
And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.

For real? Is this serious?

I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
How do students in highschool have such an insatiable appetite to go to university or they will not succeed in life?
Taught?

PJfanwillneverleave1

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?

Yes.
And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.

For real? Is this serious?

I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.

Earth's inhabitants deserve such fine specimens.

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
How do students in highschool have such an insatiable appetite to go to university or they will not succeed in life?
Taught?

I don't understand the question.

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?

Yes.
And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.

For real? Is this serious?

I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.

Earth's inhabitants deserve such fine specimens.

I don't understand this either.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
To give context about recruiting.
How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.

rgambs

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
To give context about recruiting.
How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.

Ah, yes, I understand now.

rgambs

ldent42 said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

PJ_Soul said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.

Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.

Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece

Just to back up jn - we talked about this on here already - in my experience the recruiters target kids in low income aka failing schools specifically for infantry recruitment. The line they used on my best friend was "What are you going to do with your life? You can't afford college. Your mother sacrificed so much to bring you here and for what? So you can flip burgers at MacDonald's?" And basically how the army will help residents get citizenship, plus the GI Bill to pay for college after, and in his particular case the recruiter made it seem like he was going to be in communications but he wasn't, he was infantry. And we're talking about a 17 year old kid. Make no mistake about it, US military recruitment is a predatory process.


You know what my favorite part about it was? Yea you get your pension and your GI Bill. But good luck getting your head straightened out enough to use it.

And don't get me started on the for profit colleges preying on the post 9/11 GI Bill vets. I can't even.

What are we talking about again? Oh yea. No draft. Draft bad. Was (part of the) terrible treatment of Nam vets upon their return home due to the draft or in spite of it?

What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?

If there is a wide range of acceptable forms of service it becomes a workable idea.
2 years of mandatory giving, in your chosen field, is way better for everyone than mandatory military.

TL170678

Should never reference a Michael Moore doc...They only tell the side of the story he wants...Basically Democrat Propaganda

Thirty Bills Unpaid

TL170678 said:

Should never reference a Michael Moore doc...They only tell the side of the story he wants...Basically Democrat Propaganda

He's allowed to do that though. And, in my opinion, not too far from the mark in some of his work- in particular, Bowling and Farenheit.

ldent42

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
To give context about recruiting.
How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.

Ah, yes, I understand now.

I still don't.

jeffbr

rgambs said:

ldent42 said:

What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?

If there is a wide range of acceptable forms of service it becomes a workable idea.
2 years of mandatory giving, in your chosen field, is way better for everyone than mandatory military.

"Mandatory giving" sounds a little Orwellian. I think it would be more accurate to flip the equation and call it mandatory taking. This would still be considered conscription which I'm vehemently opposed to. I could see something like this tied to receiving federal aid for education, where people trade something of value in a mutually beneficial exchange. There is already an annual "mandatory giving" of tax dollars to pay for the government's benevolence. I'd prefer we weren't compelled to "give" them years of our lives as well.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

rgambs said:

tempo_n_groove said:

callen said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

tempo_n_groove said:

If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

"Treating people just like pawns in chess"

That is a very very good point

On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.

You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.

That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
That would create a scary society.

Really?

Yes, really.

Ok.
Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
Minds stagnate when in the military.

Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?

Yes.
And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.

I beg to differ. Of course there are smart people and otherwise admirable people in the military. But I have known a few really brilliant people who decided to join tell a few my, and their brilliant minds were absolutely smothered. And i think it's crazy to advocate for anyone going into battle. I know sometimes it's necessary, but to suggest that sending brilliant minds into battle (or any mind) into battle is a great use of human beings is pretty sick.