Politicians sending others off to war

2

Comments

  • PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    In which countries?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kids aren't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    This "terrible" idea works in many other countries quite well.
    So scary society aside...
    I'm not sure what economic impact you'd be talking about. They aren't going when they're in their 30's. No removing, it's not a draft, lol. They could go anytime before they were 24 like other countries.

    It would do more great than harm.


    How is it not a draft? Involuntary servitude is conscription in every way.
    Exactly what good do you think it would do? Sure, there are plenty of punks that would benefit from the discipline, but what good would it do for productive members of society who don't have 2 years to waste?

    I find the idea repugnant. You want the government to force me to join an organization with a proven record of complicity with rampant sexual assault, a proven record of crimes against humanity, a proven record of waging war for fiscal and political reasons, an organization which openly squelches critical thought, enforces draconian values, and even dictates ridiculous standards on grooming and appearance?

    No, thank you. I would literally rather move to a 3rd world country, at least then I could still exercise my own values and hold to a system of ethics.
    Or you could just move to Ireland, our army is completely benevolent :)
    Yeah, that sounds a good bit better lol
    I could see myself kicking back in the emerald homeland of Wilde and Years..I can see that nicely!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kids aren't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    In which countries?
    The USA. There are regulations about this (or not doing it), which are different for different branches of the military, but there are easy loop holes through most of them. More frequently, recruitment officers fish for recruits who have just been convicted or who have just been released from prison. The US military has actually increased their efforts there, using what are called "moral waivers". They are always on the look out for easy pickin's, and people who have just been released from prison are among the easiest. Of course they also hang around outside high schools in June so they can recruit all the people who are about to graduate but who didn't get good enough grades for college.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    In which countries?
    The USA. There are regulations about this (or not doing it), which are different for different branches of the military, but there are easy loop holes through most of them. More frequently, recruitment officers fish for recruits who have just been convicted or who have just been released from prison. The US military has actually increased their efforts there, using what are called "moral waivers". They are always on the look out for easy pickin's, and people who have just been released from prison are among the easiest. Of course they also hang around outside high schools in June so they can recruit all the people who are about to graduate but who didn't get good enough grades for college.
    Actually, on this, my niece is due to finish high school in Virginia next year and they got calls to the house from the army looking to recruit. I find it a little creepy that they're actively targeting school kids like that
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kids aren't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kids aren't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    This "terrible" idea works in many other countries quite well.
    So scary society aside...
    I'm not sure what economic impact you'd be talking about. They aren't going when they're in their 30's. No removing, it's not a draft, lol. They could go anytime before they were 24 like other countries.

    It would do more great than harm.


    How is it not a draft? Involuntary servitude is conscription in every way.
    Exactly what good do you think it would do? Sure, there are plenty of punks that would benefit from the discipline, but what good would it do for productive members of society who don't have 2 years to waste?

    I find the idea repugnant. You want the government to force me to join an organization with a proven record of complicity with rampant sexual assault, a proven record of crimes against humanity, a proven record of waging war for fiscal and political reasons, an organization which openly squelches critical thought, enforces draconian values, and even dictates ridiculous standards on grooming and appearance?

    No, thank you. I would literally rather move to a 3rd world country, at least then I could still exercise my own values and hold to a system of ethics.
    :clap:
    Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm too old to be drafted now, but I find the idea terrifying and abhorrent. There is no place for conscription in a free society. It should be considered the antithesis of freedom. I know I dreaded signing up for selective service when I turned 18 at the end of the 70's when Vietnam was still fresh in everyone's mind. I figured I could always make a run for the border (being a couple of hours from the border with Canada) if drafted. After years of not thinking about it, I was reminded a few years ago when my son turned 18 and had to sign up. So I had a little talk with him, and let him know that if he ever got the notice, and didn't want to comply, to get a suitcase packed and we'd figure out where in Canada we'd enjoy living.

    Gambs, your second paragraph nailed it for me.

    The reality is that we won't have a draft again anytime soon. Certainly not in my lifetime. It would be political suicide for any of the assholes in D.C. who tried to make it happen.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kids aren't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited November 2015
    callen said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.
    Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
    They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:

    callen said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.
    Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
    They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.
    Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited November 2015

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Brilliant minds that are being forced into a position they didn't choose will surely stagnate. I wasn't making the generalization that all minds stagnate in the military, but I don't think it's terribly inaccurate.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    That is exactly what happened to the handful I saw that went.

    You have to get them drunk to get them to drop the battle rattle bullshit and have a real conversation of any depth.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • callen said:

    Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

    Come on up!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    edited November 2015

    callen said:

    Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

    Come on up!
    I'm taking the house across the street
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • ldent42 said:

    callen said:

    Mandatory service. I'd head north. Find out where thirty lives and move in next door. :O

    Come on up!
    I'm taking the house across the street
    Frick.

    Next it'll be RG LOL.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    Yes.
    And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859

    PJ_Soul said:

    callen said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.
    Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
    They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.
    Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece
    Just to back up jn - we talked about this on here already - in my experience the recruiters target kids in low income aka failing schools specifically for infantry recruitment. The line they used on my best friend was "What are you going to do with your life? You can't afford college. Your mother sacrificed so much to bring you here and for what? So you can flip burgers at MacDonald's?" And basically how the army will help residents get citizenship, plus the GI Bill to pay for college after, and in his particular case the recruiter made it seem like he was going to be in communications but he wasn't, he was infantry. And we're talking about a 17 year old kid. Make no mistake about it, US military recruitment is a predatory process.


    You know what my favorite part about it was? Yea you get your pension and your GI Bill. But good luck getting your head straightened out enough to use it.

    And don't get me started on the for profit colleges preying on the post 9/11 GI Bill vets. I can't even.

    What are we talking about again? Oh yea. No draft. Draft bad. Was (part of the) terrible treatment of Nam vets upon their return home due to the draft or in spite of it?

    What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    Yes.
    And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.
    For real? Is this serious?

    I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ^^^
    How do students in highschool have such an insatiable appetite to go to university or they will not succeed in life?
    Taught?
  • rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    Yes.
    And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.
    For real? Is this serious?

    I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.
    Earth's inhabitants deserve such fine specimens.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    ^^^
    How do students in highschool have such an insatiable appetite to go to university or they will not succeed in life?
    Taught?

    I don't understand the question.

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    Yes.
    And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.
    For real? Is this serious?

    I would prefer to have our brilliant people working to make life safer, healthier, and happier for Earth's inhabitants, there is nothing in war that makes the world a better place.
    Earth's inhabitants deserve such fine specimens.
    I don't understand this either.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ^^^
    To give context about recruiting.
    How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
    As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    ^^^
    To give context about recruiting.
    How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
    As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.

    Ah, yes, I understand now.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    ldent42 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    callen said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Sometimes criminals are practically drafted into the military. Either join the army or go to prison (and we all know how deplorable most US prisons are these days). It's used as a plea bargain condition.

    Maybe years ago. Now they are picky.
    Lol. They are the opposite of picky.
    They don't get picky until you're talking career military folks. As far as recruitment goes, they're just trying to keep the numbers up.
    Hence them picking on my (not even American) niece
    Just to back up jn - we talked about this on here already - in my experience the recruiters target kids in low income aka failing schools specifically for infantry recruitment. The line they used on my best friend was "What are you going to do with your life? You can't afford college. Your mother sacrificed so much to bring you here and for what? So you can flip burgers at MacDonald's?" And basically how the army will help residents get citizenship, plus the GI Bill to pay for college after, and in his particular case the recruiter made it seem like he was going to be in communications but he wasn't, he was infantry. And we're talking about a 17 year old kid. Make no mistake about it, US military recruitment is a predatory process.


    You know what my favorite part about it was? Yea you get your pension and your GI Bill. But good luck getting your head straightened out enough to use it.

    And don't get me started on the for profit colleges preying on the post 9/11 GI Bill vets. I can't even.

    What are we talking about again? Oh yea. No draft. Draft bad. Was (part of the) terrible treatment of Nam vets upon their return home due to the draft or in spite of it?

    What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?
    If there is a wide range of acceptable forms of service it becomes a workable idea.
    2 years of mandatory giving, in your chosen field, is way better for everyone than mandatory military.
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  • TL170678TL170678 Posts: 422
    Should never reference a Michael Moore doc...They only tell the side of the story he wants...Basically Democrat Propaganda
  • TL170678 said:

    Should never reference a Michael Moore doc...They only tell the side of the story he wants...Basically Democrat Propaganda

    He's allowed to do that though. And, in my opinion, not too far from the mark in some of his work- in particular, Bowling and Farenheit.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • ldent42ldent42 Posts: 7,859
    rgambs said:

    ^^^
    To give context about recruiting.
    How do children have a feeling that university or bust is the only way to make a life for yourself.
    As opposed to never having a thought of joining the military not once.

    Ah, yes, I understand now.
    I still don't.
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  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    rgambs said:

    ldent42 said:



    What if "mandatory service" were altered to be not explicitly military service? Make every college student intern at the VA or something. One year's employment by the DoD or a DoD contractor (remember, this includes food service) in exchange for a year's tuition? I'd do it. Fuck I'd cut their damn backlog in half. Thoughts?

    If there is a wide range of acceptable forms of service it becomes a workable idea.
    2 years of mandatory giving, in your chosen field, is way better for everyone than mandatory military.
    "Mandatory giving" sounds a little Orwellian. I think it would be more accurate to flip the equation and call it mandatory taking. This would still be considered conscription which I'm vehemently opposed to. I could see something like this tied to receiving federal aid for education, where people trade something of value in a mutually beneficial exchange. There is already an annual "mandatory giving" of tax dollars to pay for the government's benevolence. I'd prefer we weren't compelled to "give" them years of our lives as well.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited November 2015

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    callen said:

    If you don't join the military then you won't have to worry about going to war. That's an easy way to look at it, no?

    "Treating people just like pawns in chess"

    That is a very very good point
    On surface it appears to be a good point but it isn't. In poor communities the schools are shit and no manufacturing jobs so many poor kids join military to break out. So they make up the losses. Not the fortunate better off kids that have better opportunities The poor die in our wars, not rich kids.
    You watch Michael Moore documentaries? He actually chases the senators and asks them why their kin't serving.

    Years ago you had to have served to be considered for president. That's not the case anymore.

    I actually think that every citizen should donate 2 years to military service. EVERY citizen. There would be no one to scoff at because only a medical reason would keep you out.
    That is such a terrible idea for so many reasons. The economic impact of removing millions from the job force, the further glorification and justification of war, the sheer lunacy of forcing a brilliant mind to stagnate for 2 years... Artists, musicians, scientists and mathematicians, doctors and writers languishing in an organization that openly works against individuality and free thought and promotes slavish devotion to politicians that care little, if at all.
    That would create a scary society.
    Really?
    Yes, really.
    Ok.
    Just wanted to make sure I read that right.
    Minds stagnate when in the military.
    Have you known anyone who has gone off to serve?
    Yes.
    And if anything a brilliant mind is best when serving others in battle.
    I beg to differ. Of course there are smart people and otherwise admirable people in the military. But I have known a few really brilliant people who decided to join tell a few my, and their brilliant minds were absolutely smothered. And i think it's crazy to advocate for anyone going into battle. I know sometimes it's necessary, but to suggest that sending brilliant minds into battle (or any mind) into battle is a great use of human beings is pretty sick.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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