Canadian Politics Redux

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

anytime a visible minority is gunned down by a white man, you should NEVER be surprised at the response. 

I'm kinda with you on your first paragraph, though. In the heat of the moment, is it possible Stanley feared for his life? Absolutely. is it possible he feared for his life because of the perps' race? Also absolutely. if it was indeed an intentional shot, would he have shot a white kid in the head? Impossible to know. 

reasonable doubt. 

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

part of his mandate in office is recociliation. whether he believes the shooting to be justified or not, his hands are tied politically. if he expresses that the verdict was just, then he loses all of his reconciliation capital. it's a tough spot to be in. I can't say I blame him for that. 

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

I actually know next to nothing about the Colten Boushie trial. I had never even heard of it before the verdict. It didn't seem to be on the radar on my local news until now. Therefore, I really can't speak to whether or not the verdict is justified. I don't know the details of the trial. I hope very much that the jury had a good reason to acquit. A lot of people are acting like they didn't... but that doesn't mean it's so.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/what-happened-stanley-farm-boushie-shot-witnesses-colten-gerald-1.4520214

1ThoughtKnown

Pretty impressed with Rachel Notley's recent performance.  The BC  government 's unconstitutional actions against an approved pipeline cannot be tolerated. 
Government's cannot simply drag out decisions with the hope investors will simply back out.  This is no way to run a country. If you don't think it's unconstitutional, just look up Section 121 of the Constituion Act of 1867

121. All Articles of the Growth, Produce, or Manufacture of any one of the Provinces shall, from and after the Union, be admitted free into each of the other Provinces.

even flow - question mark

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

With two friends who were first stationed in this area for their RCMP stint and the stories they tell me, this is common place. It wouldn't matter if it was a car full of white, Chinese, black, native, whatever. Read what the drunk youths were doing on this guys isolated farm and tell me you would not retrieved a weapon to protect yourself?

But....the guy should have got manslaughter thrown at him for sure.

Need to fix the problem on the rez and it is not going to happen with more free money from the government.

HughFreakingDillon

even flow - question mark said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

With two friends who were first stationed in this area for their RCMP stint and the stories they tell me, this is common place. It wouldn't matter if it was a car full of white, Chinese, black, native, whatever. Read what the drunk youths were doing on this guys isolated farm and tell me you would not retrieved a weapon to protect yourself?

But....the guy should have got manslaughter thrown at him for sure.

Need to fix the problem on the rez and it is not going to happen with more free money from the government.

100% agree on your last two senteneces. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'm not so sure about the manslaughter charge needing to stick.

Many are depicting the scene as an innocent one where those youths stumbled on to Stanley's property with no harm intended- this simply isn't true.

It was chaos at the farmstead. Aside from the attempted theft of the vehicles... Stanley's wife had been physically assaulted. Boushie had a rifle on him. The youths' testimonies were fraught with lies.

We can't expect the guy to act with ice in his veins as madness is ensuing around him and with no assistance from anyone. He says there was an accidental discharge of the handgun. If he wanted to lie, he could easily have made up a lie involving Boushie and the rifle (there was a bullet in the chamber).

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not so sure about the manslaughter charge needing to stick.

Many are depicting the scene as an innocent one where those youths stumbled on to Stanley's property with no harm intended- this simply isn't true.

It was chaos at the farmstead. Aside from the attempted theft of the vehicles... Stanley's wife had been physically assaulted. Boushie had a rifle on him. The youths' testimonies were fraught with lies.

We can't expect the guy to act with ice in his veins as madness is ensuing around him and with no assistance from anyone. He says there was an accidental discharge of the handgun. If he wanted to lie, he could easily have made up a lie involving Boushie and the rifle (there was a bullet in the chamber).

actually, nothing I have seen has depicted the scene as an innocent one. everyone is well aware of what they were there to do. the question is, was lethal force necessary? and shooting someone in the head is difficult to do unless it is intentional and at close range. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

dignin

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not so sure about the manslaughter charge needing to stick.

Many are depicting the scene as an innocent one where those youths stumbled on to Stanley's property with no harm intended- this simply isn't true.

It was chaos at the farmstead. Aside from the attempted theft of the vehicles... Stanley's wife had been physically assaulted. Boushie had a rifle on him. The youths' testimonies were fraught with lies.

We can't expect the guy to act with ice in his veins as madness is ensuing around him and with no assistance from anyone. He says there was an accidental discharge of the handgun. If he wanted to lie, he could easily have made up a lie involving Boushie and the rifle (there was a bullet in the chamber).

You need to read that CBC article I posted, because you don't have your facts straight.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not so sure about the manslaughter charge needing to stick.

Many are depicting the scene as an innocent one where those youths stumbled on to Stanley's property with no harm intended- this simply isn't true.

It was chaos at the farmstead. Aside from the attempted theft of the vehicles... Stanley's wife had been physically assaulted. Boushie had a rifle on him. The youths' testimonies were fraught with lies.

We can't expect the guy to act with ice in his veins as madness is ensuing around him and with no assistance from anyone. He says there was an accidental discharge of the handgun. If he wanted to lie, he could easily have made up a lie involving Boushie and the rifle (there was a bullet in the chamber).

You need to read that CBC article I posted, because you don't have your facts straight.

I did read it and several others.

Exactly what don't I have straight?

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

LOL, well if social media is your barometer.......of course there will be people, lots of them, that don't actually read the articles/facts relating to any case. they see it on the surface, or they see someone's post and take it as fact. 

when I say I hadn't seen anything depicting the victim as completely innocent, I meant in official outlets, like real media or other organizations. 

but that is largely irrelevant anyway. he didn't deserve to get shot in the head. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

LOL, well if social media is your barometer.......of course there will be people, lots of them, that don't actually read the articles/facts relating to any case. they see it on the surface, or they see someone's post and take it as fact. 

when I say I hadn't seen anything depicting the victim as completely innocent, I meant in official outlets, like real media or other organizations. 

but that is largely irrelevant anyway. he didn't deserve to get shot in the head. 

Come on. All I said was 'many are depicting the scene'. This is true.

He did not deserve to get shot in the head. With that said, the Stanley family did not need that unfortunate event to happen to them either. Do you think Stanley is living the good life right now?

And Trudeau has again spoke out of turn over this incident after meeting with Bouchie's family yesterday. 

oftenreading

even flow - question mark said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

With two friends who were first stationed in this area for their RCMP stint and the stories they tell me, this is common place. It wouldn't matter if it was a car full of white, Chinese, black, native, whatever. Read what the drunk youths were doing on this guys isolated farm and tell me you would not retrieved a weapon to protect yourself?

But....the guy should have got manslaughter thrown at him for sure.

Need to fix the problem on the rez and it is not going to happen with more free money from the government.

I agree that a manslaughter conviction seems to have been appropriate. Given that manslaughter is "a homicide committed without the intention to cause death", and given that the circumstances of the shooting suggest criminal negligence in how he approached the truck without taking due care of his firearm, I'm puzzled why it wasn't raised (am assuming if it had been raised, it would have been reported upon). I don't think the jury on its own can't make that finding unless directed by the judge to consider a verdict if they don't convict for murder, so it would be interesting to know if the judge considered that direction, though we'll probably never find out. 

As for the last sentence, the "free money" comment burns me. The government so systematically destroyed the First Nations cultures that it was essentially genocide, which, after all, was their intention. Money alone isn't the answer, but definitely money should be a major part of the equation.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

LOL, well if social media is your barometer.......of course there will be people, lots of them, that don't actually read the articles/facts relating to any case. they see it on the surface, or they see someone's post and take it as fact. 

when I say I hadn't seen anything depicting the victim as completely innocent, I meant in official outlets, like real media or other organizations. 

but that is largely irrelevant anyway. he didn't deserve to get shot in the head. 

Come on. All I said was 'many are depicting the scene'. This is true.

He did not deserve to get shot in the head. With that said, the Stanley family did not need that unfortunate event to happen to them either. Do you think Stanley is living the good life right now?

And Trudeau has again spoke out of turn over this incident after meeting with Bouchie's family yesterday. 

yes, you did, which was a very vague statement, and I took that to mean people other than idiots on twitter. after experiencing twitter for a few years now, I fail to consider comments by trolls who think they know everything and express themselves in virtually nothing but hyperbole. 

Stanley's current LIVING circumstances can not in any way shape or form be compared to Bouchie's current DEATH circumstances. 

was bouchie a criminal? YES. did his punishment fit the crime? NO. 

as has been said, a manslaugher conviction would have been justice here. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

LOL, well if social media is your barometer.......of course there will be people, lots of them, that don't actually read the articles/facts relating to any case. they see it on the surface, or they see someone's post and take it as fact. 

when I say I hadn't seen anything depicting the victim as completely innocent, I meant in official outlets, like real media or other organizations. 

but that is largely irrelevant anyway. he didn't deserve to get shot in the head. 

Come on. All I said was 'many are depicting the scene'. This is true.

He did not deserve to get shot in the head. With that said, the Stanley family did not need that unfortunate event to happen to them either. Do you think Stanley is living the good life right now?

And Trudeau has again spoke out of turn over this incident after meeting with Bouchie's family yesterday. 

yes, you did, which was a very vague statement, and I took that to mean people other than idiots on twitter. after experiencing twitter for a few years now, I fail to consider comments by trolls who think they know everything and express themselves in virtually nothing but hyperbole. 

Stanley's current LIVING circumstances can not in any way shape or form be compared to Bouchie's current DEATH circumstances. 

was bouchie a criminal? YES. did his punishment fit the crime? NO. 

as has been said, a manslaugher conviction would have been justice here. 

Yes. It has been said. And I disagree. So did the jury and the courts.

oftenreading

In my opinion, Stanley had no business approaching the SUV and attempting to wrest the keys away. It wasn't his SUV, and no one in it was directly threatening him at the time.  He says he thought that the SUV had run over his wife, with no evidence. He made a mistake, and when your mistake kills someone, you don't get to just say "oops, guess I was wrong about that". 

Even if you buy his story, in doing so he was careless with his firearm and that directly led to someone's death, which are grounds for a manslaughter conviction. He admits himself he wasn't even paying attention to what was happening with his gun. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oftenreading said:

even flow - question mark said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Where are people at with the Colten Boushie trial and verdict?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/gerald-stanley-colten-boushie-verdict-1.4526313

Some people are saying this is a race issue. I don't think it is. When you live on an isolated farm and intruders invade your domain- trying to steal multiple vehicles and creating chaos- I don't think you are noting the color of their skin when you attempt to defend what is yours.

The fatal shot could be debated, but in all honesty... this was an intense situation on an isolated farm with nobody but themselves to assist them. Things could have gone very badly for the Stanleys. They never went looking for this trouble- they were forced to deal with it.

I guess I'm surprised at the response. And I guess I'm not. Despite not sitting in on the jury trial... Trudeau has already publically expressed a veiled disappointment for the verdict. He's still losing me.

With two friends who were first stationed in this area for their RCMP stint and the stories they tell me, this is common place. It wouldn't matter if it was a car full of white, Chinese, black, native, whatever. Read what the drunk youths were doing on this guys isolated farm and tell me you would not retrieved a weapon to protect yourself?

But....the guy should have got manslaughter thrown at him for sure.

Need to fix the problem on the rez and it is not going to happen with more free money from the government.

I agree that a manslaughter conviction seems to have been appropriate. Given that manslaughter is "a homicide committed without the intention to cause death", and given that the circumstances of the shooting suggest criminal negligence in how he approached the truck without taking due care of his firearm, I'm puzzled why it wasn't raised (am assuming if it had been raised, it would have been reported upon). I don't think the jury on its own can't make that finding unless directed by the judge to consider a verdict if they don't convict for murder, so it would be interesting to know if the judge considered that direction, though we'll probably never find out. 

As for the last sentence, the "free money" comment burns me. The government so systematically destroyed the First Nations cultures that it was essentially genocide, which, after all, was their intention. Money alone isn't the answer, but definitely money should be a major part of the equation.

I think he meant just handing the bands cash as if that is going to make the problems go away.

We need a better plan moving forward towards reconciliation. I'm in favour of the better plan being financed appropriately.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Twitter features many people that seem to have not fully understood the full gravity of the situation.

They were in very close proximity- Stanley was in the driver's side window of the SUV trying to grab the keys as Bouchie resisted his efforts.

It's questionable for sure, but in my mind... he gets the benefit of the doubt given his role in the entire mess.

LOL, well if social media is your barometer.......of course there will be people, lots of them, that don't actually read the articles/facts relating to any case. they see it on the surface, or they see someone's post and take it as fact. 

when I say I hadn't seen anything depicting the victim as completely innocent, I meant in official outlets, like real media or other organizations. 

but that is largely irrelevant anyway. he didn't deserve to get shot in the head. 

Come on. All I said was 'many are depicting the scene'. This is true.

He did not deserve to get shot in the head. With that said, the Stanley family did not need that unfortunate event to happen to them either. Do you think Stanley is living the good life right now?

And Trudeau has again spoke out of turn over this incident after meeting with Bouchie's family yesterday. 

yes, you did, which was a very vague statement, and I took that to mean people other than idiots on twitter. after experiencing twitter for a few years now, I fail to consider comments by trolls who think they know everything and express themselves in virtually nothing but hyperbole. 

Stanley's current LIVING circumstances can not in any way shape or form be compared to Bouchie's current DEATH circumstances. 

was bouchie a criminal? YES. did his punishment fit the crime? NO. 

as has been said, a manslaugher conviction would have been justice here. 

Yes. It has been said. And I disagree. So did the jury and the courts.

funny that you cite the jury and the courts as being correct when it agrees with your stance. we both know how rare that is. 

not to mention your sympathy for the killer here and what he is enduring, yet on the flip side, you mock us "bleeding hearts" for what you perceive as doing just that (when it's justice we want, not sympathy for the killer). 

dignin

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not so sure about the manslaughter charge needing to stick.

Many are depicting the scene as an innocent one where those youths stumbled on to Stanley's property with no harm intended- this simply isn't true.

It was chaos at the farmstead. Aside from the attempted theft of the vehicles... Stanley's wife had been physically assaulted. Boushie had a rifle on him. The youths' testimonies were fraught with lies.

We can't expect the guy to act with ice in his veins as madness is ensuing around him and with no assistance from anyone. He says there was an accidental discharge of the handgun. If he wanted to lie, he could easily have made up a lie involving Boushie and the rifle (there was a bullet in the chamber).

You need to read that CBC article I posted, because you don't have your facts straight.

I did read it and several others.

Exactly what don't I have straight?

Did you see the condition of the "rifle"? The shooter never saw the "rifle" until after he shot and killed the kid, so it played no roll in his death. The wife was assaulted after the kid was dead.

That's not even getting into the accidental discharge defense, which was completely bogus and refuted by experts.

All that said I don't think it was willful murder. Stanley never asked for what happened to him that day and the victims to bare some responsibility for how it played out. I do think that he could have definitely been convicted of manslaughter though, he took a shitty situation and escalated it ten fold. Another reason why regular joe blow has no business owning a handgun.