If I'm going to be a critic, I also have to give credit when (I think) it's due.
I'm glad to hear Trudeau condemn last night's tragedy as a terrorist attack (even though the investigation may disprove that motive as it progresses), in contrast to his reaction to the 2 attacks a couple years ago.
Also, despite my dislike of his largely non-answers during his "listening tour" (and my cynicism around his motivation behind the tour), I have to give him credit for giving the average voter such access to a sitting PM. There was a good column in yesterday's Sun pushing the idea that these "town halls" should be the norm and not the exception.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
soo ... how long before the liberals run through their focus groups to decide what to say about the travel ban? ...
What do you mean? I thought Trudeau was already pretty explicit about it. What more do you want them to say? Or what options do you think they'd be considering? Are you wondering how they will diplomatically deal with Trump et al?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
soo ... how long before the liberals run through their focus groups to decide what to say about the travel ban? ...
What do you mean? I thought Trudeau was already pretty explicit about it. What more do you want them to say? Or what options do you think they'd be considering? Are you wondering how they will diplomatically deal with Trump et al?
i haven't heard anything substantive from him ... what has he said?
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
With no conditions for his release, a LOT. Of course that horrible crime was 100% due to a terrible mental illness, and if they guy absolutely adheres to his medication schedule, then nothing would go wrong. But that could only be ensured if he is released with conditions - someone has to be monitoring him for life to ensure that he's meeting the medical requirements that will prevent him from being a danger due to his mental illness. Without that, this idea is crazy.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
I think I was pretty with my question... I was just asking about your apparent lack of sensitivity re the mental illness.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
I think I was pretty with my question... I was just asking about your apparent lack of sensitivity re the mental illness.
You always think you're pretty.
I don't want Li released unconditionally. If that makes me insensitive then so be it.
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
I think I was pretty with my question... I was just asking about your apparent lack of sensitivity re the mental illness.
You always think you're pretty.
I don't want Li released unconditionally. If that makes me insensitive then so be it.
Haha. Ooops. Pretty clear! Yeah, I got that. I don't think that makes you insensitive at all. As I already mentioned, I was wondering because of the tone you were using. It was an honest question. Some people do indeed think mentally ill people should be locked up in prison or even executed, so I guess I was asking what your attitude about dangerous psychiatric patients actually is. Perhaps it's different than what your tone suggested.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If Li/Baker gets his absolute discharge, which is far from certain, there is zero chance he won't have monitoring in the community. It will just be by the civil mental health system, not the forensic mental health system. The article doesn't explain any of that, but the Review Board would only consider an AD if they were assured of transfer of care to another service.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If Li/Baker gets his absolute discharge, which is far from certain, there is zero chance he won't have monitoring in the community. It will just be by the civil mental health system, not the forensic mental health system. The article doesn't explain any of that, but the Review Board would only consider an AD if they were assured of transfer of care to another service.
I hope that's true. Do you have a source? I didn't think an unconditional discharge would allow for that, but I know little about those details when it comes to the mental health system in Canada. I do know a LOT of severely mentally ill people who are dangerous are NOT monitored the way they should be though. I'm not sure I think there is any reason to assume the system would work any better in this case.....
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
I think I was pretty with my question... I was just asking about your apparent lack of sensitivity re the mental illness.
You always think you're pretty.
I don't want Li released unconditionally. If that makes me insensitive then so be it.
Haha. Ooops. Pretty clear! Yeah, I got that. I don't think that makes you insensitive at all. As I already mentioned, I was wondering because of the tone you were using. It was an honest question. Some people do indeed think mentally ill people should be locked up in prison or even executed, so I guess I was asking what your attitude about dangerous psychiatric patients actually is. Perhaps it's different than what your tone suggested.
My perspective has softened in these types of situations. Afford the dangerous psychiatric patient good care, but minimize his potential to zero.
I feel for the survivors. Mclean's parents should not be put through the task of protesting such a situation. It's one thing to accept their child was killed by a mentally ill person in such a way... it's another to accept absolute discharge as per the psychotic's demand.
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
I don't understand why you're so snotty and uppity about this, even if you think he should never be released. He is profoundly mentally ill. You don't save any compassion for someone who literally had ZERO control over his actions?? Are you just ignorant to the nature of his illness, or do you just not distinguish between evil and mental illness? Or are you simply being insensitive?
Understanding the capacity for violence if his illness is mismanaged... do you think it's a good idea to release this guy? He's seeking 'absolute discharge'. In other words... what's done is done and I'm ready to rock!
I already stated what my opinion about his release is above.
So what's your problem? We both think an absolute discharge is f**king nuts.
I think I was pretty with my question... I was just asking about your apparent lack of sensitivity re the mental illness.
You always think you're pretty.
I don't want Li released unconditionally. If that makes me insensitive then so be it.
Haha. Ooops. Pretty clear! Yeah, I got that. I don't think that makes you insensitive at all. As I already mentioned, I was wondering because of the tone you were using. It was an honest question. Some people do indeed think mentally ill people should be locked up in prison or even executed, so I guess I was asking what your attitude about dangerous psychiatric patients actually is. Perhaps it's different than what your tone suggested.
My perspective has softened in these types of situations. Afford the dangerous psychiatric patient good care, but minimize his potential to zero.
I feel for the survivors. Mclean's parents should not be put through the task of protesting such a situation. It's one thing to accept their child was killed by a mentally ill person in such a way... it's another to accept absolute discharge as per the psychotic's demand.
For sure, it's a terrible situation for the victim's family... I'm not sure I think that's something that can be cured though. The thing about Li is that it must be basically impossible for him to even accept responsibility in any real way. It would be like if you or me completely blacked out for some medical reason beyond our control - let's say from a stroke, however unrealistic that may be - and then during our uncontrollable black out we did something awful to someone. We have no memory of it whatsoever, had never even thought about doing such a thing in our lives. How does one have a sense of responsibility or even real guilt if they had no control and no memory of the event?? It's hard to blame Li for trying to seek all the freedom he can possibly get if he feels that his illness is completely under control. I consider Li a victim too TBH. It's a horrible situation for the victim's family, but as I said, no justice can be found in a situation like this. It's just an example of blameless shittiness that exists in the world. Like childhood cancer or something...... Excluding whatever blame can be laid upon the mental healthcare situation in Canada, which mostly lies on the shoulders of our provincial politicians.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
'Quebec categorically reject this barbaric violence,' says Philippe Couillard
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-mosque-gun-shots-1.3957686
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
I'm glad to hear Trudeau condemn last night's tragedy as a terrorist attack (even though the investigation may disprove that motive as it progresses), in contrast to his reaction to the 2 attacks a couple years ago.
Also, despite my dislike of his largely non-answers during his "listening tour" (and my cynicism around his motivation behind the tour), I have to give him credit for giving the average voter such access to a sitting PM. There was a good column in yesterday's Sun pushing the idea that these "town halls" should be the norm and not the exception.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Live now:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1656193291352292&id=1541839722787650
Thanks for this.
Our politics are very boring compared to others.
http://www.metronews.ca/views/2017/01/31/trudeau-trump-refugees-immigration-canadian-citizens.html
Trudeau government abandons promise of electoral reform
New mandate for democratic institutions minister does not include reform
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-electoral-reform-mandate-1.3961736
between pipelines, arms deals to saudis and electoral reform - this guy is sucks ... liberals being liberals ...
Why not? What could possible go wrong?
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/31/vince-li-killer-who-beheaded-passenger-aboard-a-greyhound-in-2008-seeks-full-discharge-family
"Baker has been described as a "model patient" who no longer suffers from the type of issues that triggered the July 2008 attack near Portage la Prairie. He was found not criminally responsible for the killing, dismemberment and cannibalization of McLean, 22, after several medical experts said he was suffering from command hallucinations linked to untreated schizophrenia at the time of the unprovoked attack."
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/tim-mcleans-killer-seeking-absolute-discharge-from-criminal-system-family-412241023.html
I don't want Li released unconditionally. If that makes me insensitive then so be it.
Yeah, I got that. I don't think that makes you insensitive at all. As I already mentioned, I was wondering because of the tone you were using. It was an honest question. Some people do indeed think mentally ill people should be locked up in prison or even executed, so I guess I was asking what your attitude about dangerous psychiatric patients actually is. Perhaps it's different than what your tone suggested.
I feel for the survivors. Mclean's parents should not be put through the task of protesting such a situation. It's one thing to accept their child was killed by a mentally ill person in such a way... it's another to accept absolute discharge as per the psychotic's demand.