Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

Something that occurred to me should be acknowledged if we’re criticizing politicians campaigning outside of an election writ is that the government (currently Trudeau’s Liberals) are campaigning on the taxpayer dime while all the other leaders will be campaigning on the party’s dime. Only one of the leaders is costing us all to campaign.

As Hugh said earlier though, that’s the game. Until we (somehow, I’m honestly not sure of what might prove effective) demand better as the electorate it will stay the same.

1ThoughtKnown

Everyone is accusing any conservative leaning person of being populist now lmao. 

Hilariously, 80% of people don’t know what it means, and more than half the journalists. 

It’s the same as how many liberals are called socialists. 80% of people don’t know the true definition of socialism. 

If you listen closely to all the rhetoric, you are all being bamboozled. They are all on the same side, that side is to fuck you, the average citizen, right over. While this is Canadian politics, I think of Malcolm X. While it isn’t exactly the same… it does sum up my thoughts about political “parties”.

Malcolm X quote:

The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man. Let me first explain what I mean by this White liberal. In America there’s no such thing as Democrats and Republicans anymore. That’s antiquated. In America you have liberals and conservatives. This is what the American political structure boils down to among Whites. The only people who are still living in the past and thinks in terms of “I’m a Democrat” or “I’m a Republican” is the American Negro. He’s the one who runs around bragging about party affiliation and he’s the one who sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican, but White people in America are divided into two groups, liberals and Republicans…or rather, liberals and conservatives. And when you find White people vote in the political picture, they’re not divided in terms of Democrats and Republicans, they’re divided consistently as conservatives and as liberal. The Democrats who are conservative vote with Republicans who are conservative. Democrats who are liberals vote with Republicans who are liberals. You find this in Washington, DC. Now the White liberals aren’t White people who are for independence, who are liberal, who are moral, who are ethical in their thinking, they are just a faction of White people who are jockeying for power the same as the White conservatives are a faction of White people who are jockeying for power. Now they are fighting each other for booty, for power, for prestige and the one who is the football in the game is the Negro. Twenty million Black people in this country are a political football, a political pawn an economic football, an economic pawn, a social football, a social pawn...

HughFreakingDillon

only those that hold one party higher in esteem as "the good guys" are being bamboozled. I honestly don't think anyone in this thread fits that model. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

Something that occurred to me should be acknowledged if we’re criticizing politicians campaigning outside of an election writ is that the government (currently Trudeau’s Liberals) are campaigning on the taxpayer dime while all the other leaders will be campaigning on the party’s dime. Only one of the leaders is costing us all to campaign.

As Hugh said earlier though, that’s the game. Until we (somehow, I’m honestly not sure of what might prove effective) demand better as the electorate it will stay the same.

I agree. it should all be on the party's dime. always. there should be very strict finance campaign laws. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and you really believe JT should legitimize Rebel News? there's nothing news about them. it's Canadian InfoWars. 

Why not? (Leaving aside any personal feelings about any specific outlet.)

 I’m not comfortable with government of any stripe telling me what’s acceptable news and what’s not.

you obviously must have a line somewhere. you wouldn't want him giving an interview to "The Nazi Gazette" (if one should exist). I think the line should be rebel news. he does too. rebel news is garbage. why give them a platform?

HughFreakingDillon

Trudeau announces 3 year pause on carbon tax on home heating oil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2pyWIDGvB8

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and you really believe JT should legitimize Rebel News? there's nothing news about them. it's Canadian InfoWars. 

Why not? (Leaving aside any personal feelings about any specific outlet.)

 I’m not comfortable with government of any stripe telling me what’s acceptable news and what’s not.

you obviously must have a line somewhere. you wouldn't want him giving an interview to "The Nazi Gazette" (if one should exist). I think the line should be rebel news. he does too. rebel news is garbage. why give them a platform?

The few Rebel articles that I’ve read, while biased, were still what I would consider journalism the same as we see with many outlets today. None of that negates your opinion of Rebel News obviously, I might say similar things about The Toronto Star.

 I probably would draw a line at “The Nazi Gazette” or “The Communist Times” (though of the two only the first is a hate group by default). Hate speech is (I hope obviously) off-limits.

There’s a couple reasons I strongly believe in freedom of the press (with some exceptions for state-funded broadcasters). First and foremost is their ability to hold governments to account and inform the populace (obviously all these points can be discussed/debated). However it becomes incumbent on the individual to discern biases and consume the information critically.

Another reason I don’t like specific outlets being frozen out or shut down is that it can provide insight into how the “other side” thinks and believes. It also provides an opportunity to expose the truly biased reporters much like we just saw with Poilievre.

Going back a bit to the Jama situation in the Ontario legislature, I don’t think I agree one bit with what she is saying but I will fight tooth and nail to support her right to voice her truth. That reminds me that I should fire off a letter to Doug Ford expressing my displeasure with her censure (I remain ok with her being removed from the NDP caucus).

HughFreakingDillon

Well I also believe in freedom of the press. But not in the obligation of anyone to speak to them. Trump didn't speak to CNN or MSNBC or the like. that's his right. Where he went too far was to sow distrust in all media by calling them all fake unless they cowed to him. 

I don't know if that PP interviewer was biased. he had correct points, he just made them and followed up on them extremely poorly. 

I started reading one Rebel article and I got about 1.5 paragraphs in before it became hyper-partisan and I couldn't read anymore. and it wasn't an editorial. it was "reporting". 

1ThoughtKnown

HughFreakingDillon said:

only those that hold one party higher in esteem as "the good guys" are being bamboozled. I honestly don't think anyone in this thread fits that model. 

Don’t follow the thread closely. Was a comment on politics in general, not directed at anyone in the thread specifically. 

1ThoughtKnown

“It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority” - Benjamin Franklin

You don’t effectively do that watching the same mainstream news, talking to the same people. Echo chambers are dangerous. 

DarthMaeglin

1ThoughtKnown said:

“It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority” - Benjamin Franklin

You don’t effectively do that watching the same mainstream news, talking to the same people. Echo chambers are dangerous. 

Completely agree with you there, lol!

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

Well I also believe in freedom of the press. But not in the obligation of anyone to speak to them. Trump didn't speak to CNN or MSNBC or the like. that's his right. Where he went too far was to sow distrust in all media by calling them all fake unless they cowed to him. 

I don't know if that PP interviewer was biased. he had correct points, he just made them and followed up on them extremely poorly. 

I started reading one Rebel article and I got about 1.5 paragraphs in before it became hyper-partisan and I couldn't read anymore. and it wasn't an editorial. it was "reporting". 

I guess when Trudeau says that Rebel News isn’t news (I’m paraphrasing a quote I saw yesterday) I don’t see him any differently than you view Trump, lol. Trudeau’s essentially saying “Don’t trust these guys specifically.”, often because of critical coverage by that outlet.

I think I’m well-established as allowing privately-owned media their bias, hence why I don’t really deride “progressive” outlets like The Star or Bloomberg. It’s when government dollars come into play that bias becomes extremely problematic for me. I had to change the channel the other night when the local CBC news kept referring to the terrorist attack of October 7 as a raid. Technically accurate but not an accurate representation in my opinion as well. It really is that simple: change the channel (or close the article as you did with Rebel).

HughFreakingDillon

the problem is, Trudeau is right. They aren't real news. they can't be taken seriously. trump only does it because of his ego. when biden and/or obama make fun of fox, it's justified, and the same as trudeau. trudeau doesn't just paint any publication that reports negatively on him as fake news. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

the problem is, Trudeau is right. They aren't real news. they can't be taken seriously. trump only does it because of his ego. when biden and/or obama make fun of fox, it's justified, and the same as trudeau. trudeau doesn't just paint any publication that reports negatively on him as fake news. 

I’m sorry but all of that is debatable, and that’s fair enough as far as I’m concerned. Trudeau’s right in your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Having watched a good chunk of Fox News when I stay with my aunt and uncle, they seem to be just as objective as CNN, just from the other side. The only difference is the window dressing, so to speak. But that’s my own perception.

HughFreakingDillon

fox is just as objective as CNN? you can't be serious. 

Trudeau is right about this particular item, yes. I'm not sure if you were implying something larger than that or not. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

fox is just as objective as CNN? you can't be serious. 

Trudeau is right about this particular item, yes. I'm not sure if you were implying something larger than that or not. 

We’re starting to claim opinions as facts, I get that you have nothing but condescension for Rebel and that’s fine, but everything we’re discussing comes down to the eye of the beholder. And hanging your hat on Trudeau’s judgment might not be the best barometer, given his fluid relationship with facts.

Certainly during the Trump years CNN was as biased as Fox, but that’s my opinion based on my observations so yes, I’m serious on this point. We can agree to disagree, correct?

HughFreakingDillon

haha I'm not hanging my hat on Trudeau's judgment. I just agree with it in this instance. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

haha I'm not hanging my hat on Trudeau's judgment. I just agree with it in this instance. 

Fair enough, but I still maintain that it’s all subjective just the same.

If we start writing off media outlets because of bias we’ll quickly find ourselves in the aforementioned echo chambers, if there’s even any news left to consume.

Maybe you could clarify specifically why you consider Rebel News “not news”, with some specific examples showing shoddy journalism?

Zod

I do feel the same way about CNN vs Fox.  Lots of opinion/editorials, more so than factual objective news.   I've also had the thought before that they do this from the left side instead of the right, so I tend to agree with them more.    I would say I don't think they bald face lie as much as fox, but it isn't the CNN of yesteryear.

To be fair I stopped watching CNN because it felt like the same thing on the other side of the spectrum.

Parksy

In terms of media / news ....  they're very much similar.  In forming my own opinion though based on looking at it all and watching it all ... media bias is on a spectrum. 

Hockey reference incoming  lol  

If two players are super greasy.... let's say Corey Perry and Brad Marchand...   they can both be greasy, but one can be more greasy than the other based on actions. (Brad Marchand)

In the supposed culture war...  the right wing 'news' media outlets are FAR more greasier and FAR more biased.   Just sifting through the likes of Fox, CNN, Global, CTV, CBC, True North, Rebel News .... it's abundantly clear.    I think it was Daily Show that just posted a clip of how Fox is covering the Israel - Hamas war ....... and it's beyond disgusting and without any sort of respect, dignity, professionalism.  All about bombastic entertainment value for their viewers. 

My general sniff test is to look at those who go way out of their way to avoid any criticism of one side or the other. 

If you crawl around the internet, there are a lot of 'pundits' who are clearly left or clearly right.  I generally (and I stand to be corrected) see more right wing folks who are very much on record being staunch conservatives who go on to create media channels or 'news' outlets.  Ezra Levant / Rebel Media being one of them in Canada.