Canadian Politics Redux

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

I agree with the columnist here that the reaction to the picture so far has been silly, however again this is Trudeau telling/asking us for privacy and space because of the children yet here he is trotting the child out publicly (not going to the movie but posting it on instagram). Hypocrisy at some of its finest, and Justin has given us many, many examples.

https://torontosun.com/news/national/warmington-justin-trudeau-put-out-the-twitter-bait-and-some-of-his-haters-ended-up-on-the-hook

Edit: I was on instagram and chose to look at the post in question (I was curious about how nasty the comments actually were), and I have to say it feels like he’s trolling the evil right by having such an ambiguous post, if one doesn’t know that’s his kid I could see how some assumptions might be made. I haven’t really dug too deep into the comments but they are pretty silly. In any case here’s the post in question (sorry, this was my first attempt at editing a photo, to remove an identifier in this case, can you tell, lol?).

As I was about to post the picture I zoomed in on the message on Justin’s sweatshirt, kind of an odd choice to me, but who knows maybe his son bought it for him before the movie, lol. Or maybe it was worn specifically for the online post (it would only help the trolling), he is pretty canny in that sense I have to admit. (Btw, I think Poilievre ditching the glasses is just as silly.)

You are bang on. Kudos. lol 

Of course he is trolling the 'right'.  If it's not Barbie, it's tweeting at Taylor Swift... and calling Freedom Convoy morons the 'fringe minority'

And the more Fox News, Tucker Carlson, Piers Morgan, etc. bash him for stuff like this... the more I actually WANT to vote for Trudeau.  Yes he's really, really, really terrible.  But I personally despise Fox News more than I despise Trudeau. And if they hate him, kinda makes me want to vote for him just to say 'fuck you' to the ignorant pieces of shit who hate him.   It's all apart of this whirlwind culture war we've been living in these past 6 years or so. 

Said it before, will say it again... he's a hypocrite, he's a doosh, he's a criminal to be honest...    but if you're a conservative, do not doubt his political savvy. 

He has and will continue to pander to the 'left' in Canada. If I wanted to win an election in Canada, I would do the same.  Those on the right, and those who hate him will cry foul and cry like babies to be honest....  but in the end, he's laughing. He's still the PM, he won 3 elections (not saying he should have or that he did it with dignity, but he won).

His primary opponent Pierre panders to the right. (see Freedom Convoy support, Jordan Peterson interview, taking an ill-advised photo with a man wearing an anti-gay shirt)   To me...  they're both playing the same dumb game.  I think that what folks ought to start understanding about Trudeau and the Liberals is that even though he's correctly awful in the minds and hearts of the right....  he represents a majority of the population of Canada (like it or not).  We are a left leaning society.... and in my opinion... I think that margin will widen the more old white people from the olden days pass away and more young immigrants become voting citizens. 

But 'Parksy...'  You ask.  'how can you be so sure?'   The proof is in the pudding (votes).  

The by-elections were about 7 weeks ago (?) and nothing changed.  Nothing. (actually.... I think I read that the Liberals actually did BETTER in the by-elections in a Manitoba riding.)  Libs kept 2 seats. Cons kept 2 seats. People on the right are 'shocked' that people still vote for him.  It's not necessarily the man... it's the political spectrum. And more importantly... it's NOT voting Conservative (Pierre). 

Pierre OBVIOUSLY has someone FINALLY telling him this... which is why he completely changed his persona. And I do mean COMPLETELY.  Once again... proof that it's not just Trudeau who is a hypocritical 'drama teacher'....   so is his opponent. 

That said... I'd be interested in seeing how those PPC types who considered voting for Pierre will feel if he continues down this path.  It's politically the correct move to make. But it also shows his right base that he has no problem changing and 'bending' to earn votes. 

I laughingly picture folks who went to his 'Ra-Ra Rallies' being like 'Wow, he really isn't what we thought he was.'   No shit. He's a politician.  

Parksy

Doug Ford released greenbelt space which favoured developers who had connections to him / one of his ministers. Because no shit. He's a politician. 

Anyone surprised by this report....   is beyond stupid. lol 

He will either back track on this decision (good) .... or say he did no harm, and it goes forward and political corruptness continues (normal).  

This is the way. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I agree with the columnist here that the reaction to the picture so far has been silly, however again this is Trudeau telling/asking us for privacy and space because of the children yet here he is trotting the child out publicly (not going to the movie but posting it on instagram). Hypocrisy at some of its finest, and Justin has given us many, many examples.

https://torontosun.com/news/national/warmington-justin-trudeau-put-out-the-twitter-bait-and-some-of-his-haters-ended-up-on-the-hook

Edit: I was on instagram and chose to look at the post in question (I was curious about how nasty the comments actually were), and I have to say it feels like he’s trolling the evil right by having such an ambiguous post, if one doesn’t know that’s his kid I could see how some assumptions might be made. I haven’t really dug too deep into the comments but they are pretty silly. In any case here’s the post in question (sorry, this was my first attempt at editing a photo, to remove an identifier in this case, can you tell, lol?).

As I was about to post the picture I zoomed in on the message on Justin’s sweatshirt, kind of an odd choice to me, but who knows maybe his son bought it for him before the movie, lol. Or maybe it was worn specifically for the online post (it would only help the trolling), he is pretty canny in that sense I have to admit. (Btw, I think Poilievre ditching the glasses is just as silly.)

You are bang on. Kudos. lol 

Of course he is trolling the 'right'.  If it's not Barbie, it's tweeting at Taylor Swift... and calling Freedom Convoy morons the 'fringe minority'

And the more Fox News, Tucker Carlson, Piers Morgan, etc. bash him for stuff like this... the more I actually WANT to vote for Trudeau.  Yes he's really, really, really terrible.  But I personally despise Fox News more than I despise Trudeau. And if they hate him, kinda makes me want to vote for him just to say 'fuck you' to the ignorant pieces of shit who hate him.   It's all apart of this whirlwind culture war we've been living in these past 6 years or so. 

Said it before, will say it again... he's a hypocrite, he's a doosh, he's a criminal to be honest...    but if you're a conservative, do not doubt his political savvy. 

He has and will continue to pander to the 'left' in Canada. If I wanted to win an election in Canada, I would do the same.  Those on the right, and those who hate him will cry foul and cry like babies to be honest....  but in the end, he's laughing. He's still the PM, he won 3 elections (not saying he should have or that he did it with dignity, but he won).

His primary opponent Pierre panders to the right. (see Freedom Convoy support, Jordan Peterson interview, taking an ill-advised photo with a man wearing an anti-gay shirt)   To me...  they're both playing the same dumb game.  I think that what folks ought to start understanding about Trudeau and the Liberals is that even though he's correctly awful in the minds and hearts of the right....  he represents a majority of the population of Canada (like it or not).  We are a left leaning society.... and in my opinion... I think that margin will widen the more old white people from the olden days pass away and more young immigrants become voting citizens. 

But 'Parksy...'  You ask.  'how can you be so sure?'   The proof is in the pudding (votes).  

The by-elections were about 7 weeks ago (?) and nothing changed.  Nothing. (actually.... I think I read that the Liberals actually did BETTER in the by-elections in a Manitoba riding.)  Libs kept 2 seats. Cons kept 2 seats. People on the right are 'shocked' that people still vote for him.  It's not necessarily the man... it's the political spectrum. And more importantly... it's NOT voting Conservative (Pierre). 

Pierre OBVIOUSLY has someone FINALLY telling him this... which is why he completely changed his persona. And I do mean COMPLETELY.  Once again... proof that it's not just Trudeau who is a hypocritical 'drama teacher'....   so is his opponent. 

That said... I'd be interested in seeing how those PPC types who considered voting for Pierre will feel if he continues down this path.  It's politically the correct move to make. But it also shows his right base that he has no problem changing and 'bending' to earn votes. 

I laughingly picture folks who went to his 'Ra-Ra Rallies' being like 'Wow, he really isn't what we thought he was.'   No shit. He's a politician.  

I do agree that currently our country is more left leaning, but traditionally it’s been a pendulum which should swing back the other way eventually.

One thing I struggle with more and more, as Trudeau’s (I’ll be overly kind here) missteps continue to accumulate, is if the individual voter does, in fact bear responsibility for their vote. First off, this can be applied retroactively so as not to single out one party, and it is a balancing act between the local candidate and the party they represent (personally the leader does factor in for me, I could comfortably vote for the local Liberal candidate if it wasn’t currently the Liberal Party of Justin [yes, it’s the Conservative Party of Pierre too]). I honestly can’t recall any of our governments having the number of missteps that were so plain to see at the time.

So what I’m asking or even suggesting is at what point does the individual voter basically become complicit in the missteps?

 I realize Trudeau’s current term isn’t the best example since he managed to avoid his true current mandate of a minority government with the willing assistance of the NDP. In fact I’ve seen it suggested several times (not here I believe) that this arrangement be used to supplant any Conservative minority that might be elected (which strikes me as not right but really is a whole other discussion).

Parksy

Question for the group.... 

Watching these two dill holes (Ford and his Minister) try to save their own butts here... they continue to push the narrative of 'we did this because we have a housing crisis, we need more housing, people cannot afford to buy a house.' 

I get that.  Supply and demand. Right there with ya.

Now granted... I'm no economist. Nor do I know a ton about real estate. But let me take a stab at common sense here and please tell me I'm wrong if I'm wrong. 

Ford just stated that the Province is slated to see the biggest population growth in North America (!) within the next ten years.  That's more people. 

He gives land to developers to build many many houses which will make them beyond rich. 

The rationale is that this will create more supply which will drive housing costs down. 

Call me crazy,  but if you create homes at the same pace of which population is going up, how would that drive housing costs down? 

To me this is capitalist bullshit.  

I cannot WAIT to see how much these new homes will sell for. 

Parksy

To your point.. everyone who votes for someone or some party is complicit, yes. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

To your point.. everyone who votes for someone or some party is complicit, yes. 

I guess what I’m moreso questioning is to what degree? And it is a secret ballot after all, which I’ll prioritize over any of these considerations.

Think I might have talked myself in a circle again and it ends up somewhere in the realm of there is responsibility but because of the secret ballot no one will be held accountable (outside of those who openly own their vote perhaps). And how exactly would we be held to account anyways? I’m also a firm believer in slippery slopes and the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 I missed the Ford presser, though I’m more interested in hearing the AG’s announcement, I’ll be reading up more on this so that I can formulate a comment beyond asking for clear proof of the supposed collusion (beyond the doe and stag, lol).

erebus

Time for electoral reform. I believe rep by Pop will give us a truer/closer representation of what people actually want, and you could vote for who you want, not the strategic who you want to block

Parksy

erebus said:

Time for electoral reform. I believe rep by Pop will give us a truer/closer representation of what people actually want, and you could vote for who you want, not the strategic who you want to block

To this point and to what Darth is saying....   I think not only electoral reform but to a larger extent and obviously not in the close realm of possibility... but total governance reform.   Politics are gross. There is ZERO accountability. I can't speak to anything beyond North America...  but how we live and how we are governed is disgusting. 

Putting it this way... for the most part... we live in a society where those who should be held to higher standard of accountability are held to the opposite.  Police and politicians tend to get away with things that in reality should restrict them from being either a cop or a politician.  Trudeau is a good example as Darth said.  This dude is on his 9th strike (baseball analogy).   We get 3 strikes. Cops get 6 strikes. Politicians get 20 strikes. lol 

America is a solid example. Trump is the devil who abused his power endlessly.  Biden is this hero who 'defeated' Trump.  If he was such a hero, one of his top priorities should have been to permanently restrict the powers of his own office.  My goodness... the idea that a President can pardon anyone at a whim boggles the mind.  So... has he?  I don't think so.   But I digress. 

Part of it is the citizens yes... but how can you blame or hold accountable citizens when our politicians do nothing but lie and deceive to maintain power?   To what Darth was saying with regards to a degree of responsibility for whom you vote for... my personal faith is completely lost.  If it's not the Liberals doing shady shit and lying, it's the Conservatives.  It's an endless shit cycle. 

It's been said here a few times... a lot of folks find themselves voting for the lesser of two or three evils. I think that's true.  And I think that's extremely sad. 

PJ_Soul

Parksy said:

Question for the group.... 

Watching these two dill holes (Ford and his Minister) try to save their own butts here... they continue to push the narrative of 'we did this because we have a housing crisis, we need more housing, people cannot afford to buy a house.' 

I get that.  Supply and demand. Right there with ya.

Now granted... I'm no economist. Nor do I know a ton about real estate. But let me take a stab at common sense here and please tell me I'm wrong if I'm wrong. 

Ford just stated that the Province is slated to see the biggest population growth in North America (!) within the next ten years.  That's more people. 

He gives land to developers to build many many houses which will make them beyond rich. 

The rationale is that this will create more supply which will drive housing costs down. 

Call me crazy,  but if you create homes at the same pace of which population is going up, how would that drive housing costs down? 

To me this is capitalist bullshit.  

I cannot WAIT to see how much these new homes will sell for. 

It doesn't bring down housing costs. It won't. I can see it literally in my own neighborhood. They are turning it into another one of these self-contained cities by building 20 huge high rises, all residential with retail at street level. So that adds thousands of new homes in a very short period of time... and the prices of those homes go up and up everyday, and studio apartments in the rental-dedicated ones are going for $2500/month now.

Zod

I tend to think the rate the country is building has a small dent in making it slightly less worse than it would be if we didn't do it.   As far as I know as much as we're building, it doesn't keep up the population increase, so even though we build, the gap continues to grow.   You need build a metric fucktonne to make a real dent, which is a little sad, and I'm not sure if it's achievable.

edit: Plus with how much land and building costs, there's only so low places can go or developers wouldn't bother.   They're not really going to build at a loss, or probably not even for a tiny profit.

DarthMaeglin

Coming back to the Trudeaus for a moment, there’s a couple points I’ve seen in the media that I should note here given my…reaction to the announcement.

First is regarding the posts featuring the children for whom we have been implored to give privacy. It is entirely possible that both posts were made with the full knowledge and consent of the two youths (an angle that wasn’t really brought up but should be noted). That doesn’t change the brain-dead permission Justin gave to post the pictures.

 The second point is about Sophie. While I took umbrage with their public proclamation, she has subsequently kept a low profile, which I can respect, especially in contrast with her ex-husband.

Is our period of national mourning over yet, lol? I honestly half expected a page to walk out of 24 Sussex and post the announcement on the gates that day, lol.

erebus

I do not really care/see the importance in their significant others (all party leaders) unless the are acting like complete asshats (like the Biden or Trump kids).
I am kind of hoping that JT would decide to not run in the next election and maybe focus on the family.  
I believe the Libs will have a better chance, maybe majority without him at the helm. Otherwise it is going to be a minority again , going either way, with the lack of quality candidates (JT and PP)

Parksy

erebus said:

I do not really care/see the importance in their significant others (all party leaders) unless the are acting like complete asshats (like the Biden or Trump kids).
I am kind of hoping that JT would decide to not run in the next election and maybe focus on the family.  
I believe the Libs will have a better chance, maybe majority without him at the helm. Otherwise it is going to be a minority again , going either way, with the lack of quality candidates (JT and PP)

+1  100%

Zod

The Libs would need to find a stronger candidate, which as you can tell with the Cons, and them not being able to find one since Harper, is often easier said than done.

I expect we get minority governments for a long while.   Not unless one of the party's is able to shift to centre.  As long as it's a divisive right, left, and lefter, I think it'll be minority governments.

Would be interesting if the NDP lost some support and the Libs couldn't form a stable minority government without the Conservative party.   That could start pulling it towards centre.. but I find the odds of that happening slim.

DarthMaeglin

One has to wonder these days if the Emergencies Act could be employed here, does the Liberals’ super-secret legal opinion allow it? Not sure why it wasn’t used to end the B.C. port workers’ strike (border point closed, causing economic damages in the millions daily).

It’s funny when one scrolls down to the comments, seeing how many people apparently think Trudeau’s flying in right now for his photo op (that will come later, surely).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-wildfires-yellowknife-nwt-1.6939126

Edit: Interesting to note the Minister of Justice is not part of the group convened, I guess the legality of government actions isn’t as important in an emergency? Some of us think that’s when it’s the most important time to watch out for government overreach.

DarthMaeglin

Zod said:

The Libs would need to find a stronger candidate, which as you can tell with the Cons, and them not being able to find one since Harper, is often easier said than done.

I expect we get minority governments for a long while.   Not unless one of the party's is able to shift to centre.  As long as it's a divisive right, left, and lefter, I think it'll be minority governments.

Would be interesting if the NDP lost some support and the Libs couldn't form a stable minority government without the Conservative party.   That could start pulling it towards centre.. but I find the odds of that happening slim.

Trudeau has openly stated that he’s staying on for the next election so that he can “fight the Conservatives.” What a uniter, but his divisiveness has been on full display for years now despite the protestations of several here.

DarthMaeglin

(Gasp! A non-Trudeau-centric post!)

So what is the point of the Top Secret security clearance given to May and Singh if they still can’t look at the source materials?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-secret-documents-foreign-interference-1.6940404

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

(Gasp! A non-Trudeau-centric post!)

So what is the point of the Top Secret security clearance given to May and Singh if they still can’t look at the source materials?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-secret-documents-foreign-interference-1.6940404

If I remember correctly... this is why Polievre didnt want to participate...  it wasn't full clearence.. and he would also need to keep quiet.  I'll give him credit for that..  he's not wrong. 

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

(Gasp! A non-Trudeau-centric post!)

So what is the point of the Top Secret security clearance given to May and Singh if they still can’t look at the source materials?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/elizabeth-may-secret-documents-foreign-interference-1.6940404

If I remember correctly... this is why Polievre didnt want to participate...  it wasn't full clearence.. and he would also need to keep quiet.  I'll give him credit for that..  he's not wrong. 

I have to admit that I’m a bit perplexed by Poilievre’s stance on this, though I hadn’t heard about the flimsiness of the report being the issue.

 I really don’t see why he wouldn’t be allowed to continue to speak on the issue in general terms as May seems to be doing. However, he may want to keep the latitude to discuss specifics, since so much effort has been put in by the Chinese government to discredit CPC candidates, as well as the targeting of at least one sitting MP’s family abroad.

It’s also kind of funny (if it weren’t so serious) how hard we’ve been told that the last two elections were clean when they reportedly delivered the results the Chinese government was trying to achieve.

Honestly, in my opinion this issue should be treated just less than an act of war, but as I informed Hugh, Trudeau’s government seems intent on thumbing its nose at both the will of the House of Commons (including Trudeau’s pet NDP) as well as the will of the people. I’m also perfectly fine with reexamining elections going back decades, not just the last two.

And Guilbeault is off to further cozy up to the totalitarians (wonder what the Two Michaels think about that).

Maybe Chinese interference explains why we have the dubious honour of being governed by someone who has multiple Blackface photos in circulation (nope, that falls on the voters in all likelihood, at least I can say I have never and will never knowingly vote for a party led by such an ignoramus).

(Crap, I ended by finding my way to criticizing Trudeau, lol.)

DarthMaeglin

An interesting column that provides some historical perspective on the so-called “far right” as well. Lots of misnomers being thrown around by ALL SIDES.

https://apple.news/A1EoBWtceRrSwRiEq5cgZ2w

As an aside, my uncle made a statement (I need to double check with him to whom it’s attributed) that we need to move past all this left and right bullshit (my editorial: it only serves to divide not unite) and deal with the issues. I’ll also add that we need to deal with the issues based on facts, not dogmatic ideologies (sort of implied by my uncle’s statement but these days things need to be spelled out plainly it seems).

Edited to clarify my first sentence to indicate the topic of the column.