Canadian Politics Redux
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Disgusting revisionist history from our PM who apparently doesn’t want to take credit for his own work.
https://apple.news/AOVZPmxBmQm-iGx-SLq18bA
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
I saw nowhere anyone getting the vaccine against their will. That’s not revisionist. It’s the truth.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0
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Yah I didn't have to get one. My work tried to say if people didn't do it, they'd have to do things like wear a faceshield all the time, but it was a bluff.. at least as far I know.
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I had to get one to keep my job. Looking back I don’t know how necessary that was, but hindsight is always 20/20. At the time it seemed reasonable. But again, they didn’t handcuff us and jab it in our arms against our will.I understand some take the stance the choice that we were sometimes faced with didn’t seem like a choice at all, and I get that, but I hate this “forced vaccination” nonsense. Gives people the wrong impression.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0
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This is part of the problem. You’re correct, he didn’t force anyone to get the vaccine. However he helped set the stage by his own mandates for federally refunded employees and travel restrictions for the rest of us.HughFreakingDillon said:I saw nowhere anyone getting the vaccine against their will. That’s not revisionist. It’s the truth.
To now claim that those were “incentives” is being disingenuous at best, gaslighting at the worst as the column suggests. Those were (arbitrary) restrictions, which qualifies as the stick, not the carrot (actual incentives).
And calling the hesitant a “fringe minority” with “unacceptable views” proves the lie of his current words. But then again, maybe I’m just experiencing things differently, just like the woman who was subject to the Kokanee Grope."The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leapHugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
Nevermind, I see clearly now that hyperbole is accepted when applied to conservatives (ie Doug Ford WILL build a casino at Ontario Place in spite of firm agreements in place), but must be contradicted when directed at the "progressives". If neither side is willing to take an honest appraisal of themselves then we truly are fucked in my opinion, in which case it's probably a good thing Trudeau is disarming the population in advance of more serious conflicts down the road (which we all know will only be instigated by the evil right)."The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.HughFreakingDillon said:they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leap"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
well I guess I missed your hyperbolicity. I'm not sure what went over my head.DarthMaeglin said:Nevermind, I see clearly now that hyperbole is accepted when applied to conservatives (ie Doug Ford WILL build a casino at Ontario Place in spite of firm agreements in place), but must be contradicted when directed at the "progressives". If neither side is willing to take an honest appraisal of themselves then we truly are fucked in my opinion, in which case it's probably a good thing Trudeau is disarming the population in advance of more serious conflicts down the road (which we all know will only be instigated by the evil right).Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.DarthMaeglin said:
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.HughFreakingDillon said:they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leapPost edited by HughFreakingDillon onHugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.HughFreakingDillon said:
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.DarthMaeglin said:
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.HughFreakingDillon said:they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leapWe don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews."The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
as you said, movement was not federally restricted; that was provincial.DarthMaeglin said:
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.HughFreakingDillon said:
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.DarthMaeglin said:
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.HughFreakingDillon said:they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leapWe don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
I suppose one person's incentive is another person's entitlement? I don't know. If you didn't want to get the jab, then you shouldn't have gotten it. I'd be more concerned you are so easily purchased into getting something you deem "rushed science". And they weren't false claims. It was what was believed would be achieved outside in the real world at the time. People call that lying; I call that the scientific method.
The hysteria was not overblown in the context of the first wave and subsequent few variants. if it was back then like it is now, I'd agree with you. But people were dying and hospitals were overrun for months. Ask any health care worker: this was underblown by the public and health authorities. Doctors and nurses were calling for more strict lockdowns and mandates!
I didn't say your comment was over the top of hyperbolic. I said it was incorrect. nothing more. But, if I'm understanding your last paragraph, if I find something you say to be hyperbole, I'm supposed to ignore it because other lefties are hyperbolic too?
It appears to me you seem to believe that just because I don't get outraged over everything Trudeau has done, that I've been somehow brainwashed or I'm at the very least hyper partisan, or not being fair. As I've said, he's made some mistakes. I'm not a big fan. The whole "unacceptable views" comment; I didn't think that was very ministerial. He should have kept that to himself. he could have left it as a "small minority" or even "fringe" didn't bother me.
I've acknowledged my own biases that for sure play a part in the level of annoyance of any given politician. anyone who claims otherwise is a robot. I try to be as objective as they come but even I know 100% objectivity isn't real.
I've said it before: if someone else comes along that is better, I'll vote for them. Right now he is head and shoulders above the competition. So I will continue to vote for him. I wanted to vote for Jagmeet so bad. But he ruined it. And Pierre is dangerous in his rhetoric. The Greens are a joke at this point.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
I suggest you go back upthread where I explained my reasoning behind joining the grand MNRA experiment. And yes, we clearly have different definitions of what an incentive is (going back to the column I posted I wonder which definition our Literature Major PM endorses (pretty obvious to me given his own words)).HughFreakingDillon said:
as you said, movement was not federally restricted; that was provincial.DarthMaeglin said:
The fact we’re both using the word “mandate” shows that choice was on many ways an illusion.HughFreakingDillon said:
yes, it was. my point was that his mandates were not out of line with most of the rest of the planet. but conservatives are making it out like they were.DarthMaeglin said:
The vaccine mandate extended to domestic flights as well as international, if I recall correctly.HughFreakingDillon said:they WERE fringe. a very small minority is the exact definition of "fringe". that's what they were. just because they were loud as fuck doesn't make the group bigger.
Trudeau is not an outlier here. We couldn't even fly to the US without a vaccine. that was an AMERICAN requirement. that goes for dozens of democratic countries around the world.
his opinion was that they held unacceptable views. how does that prove he lied about anything? that's a leapWe don’t have a Charter right to enter the U.S., but we do have one for free movement within Canada. Because of the federal mandates that right was severely curtailed for many (sure, they could drive if they needed, but compare a six hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver as opposed to a three day drive.
If Trudeau wants to retroactively claim he was incentivizing people to get vaccinated, where was my carrot in the form of a payment or tax credit for getting the first two shots (which required me to set aside my own discomfort with the rushed “science” and what turned out to be false claims in its efficacy)?
From my point of view since covid never reached the point (yet) of an existential threat to humanity, all the hysteria was overblown. The measures that actually worked to stop spread were the lockdowns, isolation and quarantine, methods that I understand were effective back in the Middle Ages during the bubonic plague.
And Hugh you implied that my own characterization of Trudeau’s new take as revisionist history as over the top, which I allow was a bit hyperbolic but I still say a lot of hyperbole gets directed at the political right that goes unchallenged by most. I do get that this forum skews to the left but we should all (myself included) be striving to see things as they are, not forcing them into our own particular worldviews.
I suppose one person's incentive is another person's entitlement? I don't know. If you didn't want to get the jab, then you shouldn't have gotten it. I'd be more concerned you are so easily purchased into getting something you deem "rushed science". And they weren't false claims. It was what was believed would be achieved outside in the real world at the time. People call that lying; I call that the scientific method.
The hysteria was not overblown in the context of the first wave and subsequent few variants. if it was back then like it is now, I'd agree with you. But people were dying and hospitals were overrun for months. Ask any health care worker: this was underblown by the public and health authorities. Doctors and nurses were calling for more strict lockdowns and mandates!
I didn't say your comment was over the top of hyperbolic. I said it was incorrect. nothing more. But, if I'm understanding your last paragraph, if I find something you say to be hyperbole, I'm supposed to ignore it because other lefties are hyperbolic too?
It appears to me you seem to believe that just because I don't get outraged over everything Trudeau has done, that I've been somehow brainwashed or I'm at the very least hyper partisan, or not being fair. As I've said, he's made some mistakes. I'm not a big fan. The whole "unacceptable views" comment; I didn't think that was very ministerial. He should have kept that to himself. he could have left it as a "small minority" or even "fringe" didn't bother me.
I've acknowledged my own biases that for sure play a part in the level of annoyance of any given politician. anyone who claims otherwise is a robot. I try to be as objective as they come but even I know 100% objectivity isn't real.
I've said it before: if someone else comes along that is better, I'll vote for them. Right now he is head and shoulders above the competition. So I will continue to vote for him. I wanted to vote for Jagmeet so bad. But he ruined it. And Pierre is dangerous in his rhetoric. The Greens are a joke at this point.
Yes, local movements were determined by provincial and municipal governments, but methods of travel were limited by the federal government (hence the discussion around the federal mandates, since it was Trudeau that is now claiming a different course of events than many of us experienced).
So the human race faced extinction with covid? I have never seen any numbers that came close to that threshold.Trudeau is just as dangerous and divisive in his rhetoric, in my opinion.
I’ll also add that Trudeau has out-Harpered the man himself, with his omnibus bills and legislative trickery (just for a start).
Food for thought:
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
extinction? you've jumped the shark. see ya.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0
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Well, what was your standard for extreme action to fight covid other than lots of people got sick and hospitals were overwhelmed? Did that justify using the general populace as guinea pigs in what amounted to an experiment (I believe you’ve already essentially answered yes)?HughFreakingDillon said:extinction? you've jumped the shark. see ya.
Were you comfortable when the Canadian government, without any data to justify the move, decided that it was ok to extend the gap between doses? Was that good science that followed the scientific method? Or was it done for political reasons?
I’d still also like to see some objective analysis done to determine which measures were actually effective. When we tried opening up after hitting a critical mass of vaccinations the provincial and municipal governments were generally forced to reenact the lockdowns and gathering limits. That in and of itself should cause one to consider how effective the vaccines were compared to the other measures. I’m not hopeful this government will ever undertake such a study so I suppose it falls to academia.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
I need to give the government credit for having learned from their earlier screw up in Afghanistan and doing a far better job with this evacuation (albeit the numbers are much lower here but that doesn't matter ultimately).
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/khartoum-sudan-violence-1.6826953
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
This column does a good job explaining why the CBC’s bias is problematic. The last paragraph is probably the most important however.
https://apple.news/AWFIOjzNXTISM6mIp8G1I2A
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
Since this occurrence was discussed here.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9663972/ontario-man-sentenced-throwing-gravel-prime-minister/
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
Sorry to backtrack to this again, but I realized that you let my use of “existential threat” slide but decided to take umbrage with the word “extinction”? I meant the same thing in both cases.HughFreakingDillon said:extinction? you've jumped the shark. see ya."The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
Granted that this is a column (opinion), the claims made (sourced from the reputable Globe & Mail) are beyond the pale and needs to be stopped.
I’m going to preemptively stop any comparisons some might consider making to Freeland’s encounter or anything else that has occurred domestically. Not even the gravel tosser I posted about earlier. Apples and oranges, definitely.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/trudeau-knew-but-didnt-act-on-chinas-threats-to-mps-family
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220
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