Canadian Politics Redux

DarthMaeglin

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Getting back to my question a couple posts back ( I finally thought of a possible example), when a future Conservative government uses the EA to deal with rail blockades (which fuck with the economy and peoples' livelihoods), will we all be in agreement that Act's use is justified? What about if it's used to clear out a resurfaced Occupy movement? 

I do get what you're getting at....  but the circumstances would need to be pretty equal and I can't see that happening. 

Much of what you're saying is hypothetical.  Talking about how the bar is now lower and the what ifs of a conservative government yadda yadda.   The truth is... yes if the circumstances were equal then of course I would support the EA being used.  I REALLY don't think that will happen so in the meantime, I'm sticking to what has occurred. 

Thanks for the reply,  and I understand what you're saying regarding the unknowns of my hypotheticals. As a firm believer in the "forewarned is forearmed" philosophy,  I give weight to such considerations,  but we can agree to disagree on that. 

If we're focusing on what actually happened in reality then we do also need consider previous incidents involving occupations,  mainly the rail blockades and Occupy movement.  In the rail blockades trade was disrupted and laws were clearly broken (and not just municipal bylaws). No EA. With Occupy Toronto I watched a downtown park taken over for the better part of a month,  seriously disrupting the lives many neighbourhood residents.  Again,  no EA.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Getting back to my question a couple posts back ( I finally thought of a possible example), when a future Conservative government uses the EA to deal with rail blockades (which fuck with the economy and peoples' livelihoods), will we all be in agreement that Act's use is justified? What about if it's used to clear out a resurfaced Occupy movement? 

I do get what you're getting at....  but the circumstances would need to be pretty equal and I can't see that happening. 

Much of what you're saying is hypothetical.  Talking about how the bar is now lower and the what ifs of a conservative government yadda yadda.   The truth is... yes if the circumstances were equal then of course I would support the EA being used.  I REALLY don't think that will happen so in the meantime, I'm sticking to what has occurred. 

Thanks for the reply,  and I understand what you're saying regarding the unknowns of my hypotheticals. As a firm believer in the "forewarned is forearmed" philosophy,  I give weight to such considerations,  but we can agree to disagree on that. 

If we're focusing on what actually happened in reality then we do also need consider previous incidents involving occupations,  mainly the rail blockades and Occupy movement.  In the rail blockades trade was disrupted and laws were clearly broken (and not just municipal bylaws). No EA. With Occupy Toronto I watched a downtown park taken over for the better part of a month,  seriously disrupting the lives many neighbourhood residents.  Again,  no EA.

to that point... I would want to know what the economic impact was on USA.  And if it was minimal... that kind of reinforces what I've been saying for a while....  this was done not because Trudeau wanted to, but because of pressure from the States. 

Not to diminish the severity of the railway blockades. I'm aware they caused lots of problems.  But did it reach the level that had Trump calling Trudeau to say "Ummm.. this is affecting our economy."  

DarthMaeglin

Just found an article that discusses the Gofundme campaign. The odd part is earlier in the article it says (per a Gofundme representative) 60% of funds were raised within Canada. At the tail end of the article Gofundme asserts that over 80% was from Canadian donors.

I’ll say again if foreign funding is such a concern then there’s a large number of protest groups whose funding needs to be examined.

I’d also be curious to see some analysis of how many of the “foreign donations” came from expat Canadian citizens.

Unfortunately this was the most recent article I could find.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/03/04/givesendgo-covid-protests/amp/

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

Just found an article that discusses the Gofundme campaign. The odd part is earlier in the article it says (per a Gofundme representative) 60% of funds were raised within Canada. At the tail end of the article Gofundme asserts that over 80% was from Canadian donors.

I’ll say again if foreign funding is such a concern then there’s a large number of protest groups whose funding needs to be examined.

I’d also be curious to see some analysis of how many of the “foreign donations” came from expat Canadian citizens.

Unfortunately this was the most recent article I could find.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/03/04/givesendgo-covid-protests/amp/

It's a poorly written article so it's not surprising that the numbers are a bit confusing. 

One issue is that the first figures you mentioned refer to the GiveSendGo account, while the second figures refer to the GoFundMe account. The other issue is that they don't clearly differentiate between the percentage of donors from Canada and the percentage of total funds from Canada (for instance, it's certainly possible that the majority of donors are small-value Canadian individuals but that, say, 20% of the donors provided 50% of the funds if their donations were of higher amounts). 

DarthMaeglin

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Just found an article that discusses the Gofundme campaign. The odd part is earlier in the article it says (per a Gofundme representative) 60% of funds were raised within Canada. At the tail end of the article Gofundme asserts that over 80% was from Canadian donors.

I’ll say again if foreign funding is such a concern then there’s a large number of protest groups whose funding needs to be examined.

I’d also be curious to see some analysis of how many of the “foreign donations” came from expat Canadian citizens.

Unfortunately this was the most recent article I could find.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/03/04/givesendgo-covid-protests/amp/

It's a poorly written article so it's not surprising that the numbers are a bit confusing. 

One issue is that the first figures you mentioned refer to the GiveSendGo account, while the second figures refer to the GoFundMe account. The other issue is that they don't clearly differentiate between the percentage of donors from Canada and the percentage of total funds from Canada (for instance, it's certainly possible that the majority of donors are small-value Canadian individuals but that, say, 20% of the donors provided 50% of the funds if their donations were of higher amounts). 

Sorry for getting things a bit garbled, lol. Maybe the committee investigating the use of the EA will give us these numbers so people (on all sides) will see the truth, not just allegations by a government that isn’t all that familiar with the truth. Unfortunately after yesterday’s secret deal (at least the details) I don’t really have much faith that will happen (circling back to my initial post on the topic yesterday, lol). I do remember reading that part of the deal involves NDP cooperation with the Liberals on committees, one of the few places this government can actually be held to account (or at least were).

I’m still waiting for former police chief Bill Blair to show us proof of the rape gangs he alleged were hunting the streets of Ottawa. An extremely serious charge to level (right up there with labeling all participants as racists and nazis), but as usual with this bunch I’m prudently not holding my breath waiting.

Edit: Just for clarity, if the rape gangs were a real part of the protests, were widespread and known within that community, fuck the lot of them. But I really don’t think that was the reality. Paging Mr. Blair!

Nami

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Just found an article that discusses the Gofundme campaign. The odd part is earlier in the article it says (per a Gofundme representative) 60% of funds were raised within Canada. At the tail end of the article Gofundme asserts that over 80% was from Canadian donors.

I’ll say again if foreign funding is such a concern then there’s a large number of protest groups whose funding needs to be examined.

I’d also be curious to see some analysis of how many of the “foreign donations” came from expat Canadian citizens.

Unfortunately this was the most recent article I could find.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/03/04/givesendgo-covid-protests/amp/

It's a poorly written article so it's not surprising that the numbers are a bit confusing. 

One issue is that the first figures you mentioned refer to the GiveSendGo account, while the second figures refer to the GoFundMe account. The other issue is that they don't clearly differentiate between the percentage of donors from Canada and the percentage of total funds from Canada (for instance, it's certainly possible that the majority of donors are small-value Canadian individuals but that, say, 20% of the donors provided 50% of the funds if their donations were of higher amounts). 

Sorry for getting things a bit garbled, lol. Maybe the committee investigating the use of the EA will give us these numbers so people (on all sides) will see the truth, not just allegations by a government that isn’t all that familiar with the truth. Unfortunately after yesterday’s secret deal (at least the details) I don’t really have much faith that will happen (circling back to my initial post on the topic yesterday, lol). I do remember reading that part of the deal involves NDP cooperation with the Liberals on committees, one of the few places this government can actually be held to account (or at least were).

I’m still waiting for former police chief Bill Blair to show us proof of the rape gangs he alleged were hunting the streets of Ottawa. An extremely serious charge to level (right up there with labeling all participants as racists and nazis), but as usual with this bunch I’m prudently not holding my breath waiting.

Edit: Just for clarity, if the rape gangs were a real part of the protests, were widespread and known within that community, fuck the lot of them. But I really don’t think that was the reality. Paging Mr. Blair!

https://youtu.be/hF-ohri3Hao

88% originated in Canada and 86% actual cdn donations. 
Dane Lloyd questions GFM.

Also links from Greg Mclean/ Taleeb NoorMohammed questions Fintrac:
https://youtu.be/yG4ns-WwiTI
https://youtu.be/IIxEQN6BK84

Had to use an odd webpage for Taleeb questioning, couldn't find full vid like McLean's.

IMO, steps were already in place to catch anything suspicious/illegal.  

DarthMaeglin

With apologies to Bill Blair, it was Marco Mendicino who put forward the allegations of threats of rape (not rape gangs as I incorrectly recalled) at a committee, and when asked for proof asserted that since there aren’t any charges pending or other tangible evidence he said that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. While he may be technically right, that’s an incredibly dangerous accusation to make.

Using his logic, the fact we don’t have evidence that Trudeau doesn’t or doesn’t eat kittens, we can’t be sure he doesn’t.

 I realize the source may be dismissed by some, I’ll see if a transcript can be found and add it as an edit.

https://tnc.news/2022/02/28/trudeaus-public-safety-minister-claims-truckers-were-rapists/

Edit: It’s an interesting read that pokes some huge holes in some of the Liberals’ claims for why the EA was employed. The rape allegation is mentioned then is circled back to later in the proceedings, where Mendicino refuses to provide direct evidence.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-10/evidence

Nami

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

I’m honestly not sure how much international attention the other incidents received, but for me that’s a non-issue. The Act is meant to address moments of national crisis, both domestic and international.

As for a review of the use of the Act, it’s required by law in the Act itself, and please forgive me if I refuse to accept the government’s version of events at face value.

I’m also still waiting for Trudeau to apologize to the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors for saying she (Melissa Lantsman and the CPC generally) stands with people who wave swastikas. Fortunately for me, I’ve stopped expecting any level of decency from this PM.

It was very telling to me this weekend talking with my nephews visiting from Ottawa (they’re not downtown). I asked what they thought about the convoy and was told it was terrible. When I probed a bit to see how they were directly affected, it became clear they weren’t directly bothered at all. Clearly their parents had told them how to feel about it.

Oh it's not going well for him at the EU conference:
https://youtu.be/kNiL5ZivqAk

https://youtu.be/K59EMxGson4

oftenreading

Nami said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

I’m honestly not sure how much international attention the other incidents received, but for me that’s a non-issue. The Act is meant to address moments of national crisis, both domestic and international.

As for a review of the use of the Act, it’s required by law in the Act itself, and please forgive me if I refuse to accept the government’s version of events at face value.

I’m also still waiting for Trudeau to apologize to the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors for saying she (Melissa Lantsman and the CPC generally) stands with people who wave swastikas. Fortunately for me, I’ve stopped expecting any level of decency from this PM.

It was very telling to me this weekend talking with my nephews visiting from Ottawa (they’re not downtown). I asked what they thought about the convoy and was told it was terrible. When I probed a bit to see how they were directly affected, it became clear they weren’t directly bothered at all. Clearly their parents had told them how to feel about it.

Oh it's not going well for him at the EU conference:
https://youtu.be/kNiL5ZivqAk

https://youtu.be/K59EMxGson4

I’ll certainly want to pay heed to Anderson, a right wing politician who is pro-PEGIDA. 

DarthMaeglin

Nami said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

I’m honestly not sure how much international attention the other incidents received, but for me that’s a non-issue. The Act is meant to address moments of national crisis, both domestic and international.

As for a review of the use of the Act, it’s required by law in the Act itself, and please forgive me if I refuse to accept the government’s version of events at face value.

I’m also still waiting for Trudeau to apologize to the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors for saying she (Melissa Lantsman and the CPC generally) stands with people who wave swastikas. Fortunately for me, I’ve stopped expecting any level of decency from this PM.

It was very telling to me this weekend talking with my nephews visiting from Ottawa (they’re not downtown). I asked what they thought about the convoy and was told it was terrible. When I probed a bit to see how they were directly affected, it became clear they weren’t directly bothered at all. Clearly their parents had told them how to feel about it.

Oh it's not going well for him at the EU conference:
https://youtu.be/kNiL5ZivqAk

https://youtu.be/K59EMxGson4

I’d seen clips of the Croatian MEP’s lambasting of Trudeau, but the applause at the end of the woman’s speech was telling as well.

 I did laugh during Trudeau’s speech when he raised the spectre of the trucker convoy as a threat to democracy, while not that far away an actual threat to democracy is playing out in the Ukraine. If we had been serious about preventing what’s happening there we should have been enacting sanctions as the military buildup was occurring, but in the 3 weeks prior Trudeau was nowhere to be seen (except by zoom from an undisclosed location) until he used the nuclear option to break up a primarily peaceful protest.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

Nami said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

I’m honestly not sure how much international attention the other incidents received, but for me that’s a non-issue. The Act is meant to address moments of national crisis, both domestic and international.

As for a review of the use of the Act, it’s required by law in the Act itself, and please forgive me if I refuse to accept the government’s version of events at face value.

I’m also still waiting for Trudeau to apologize to the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors for saying she (Melissa Lantsman and the CPC generally) stands with people who wave swastikas. Fortunately for me, I’ve stopped expecting any level of decency from this PM.

It was very telling to me this weekend talking with my nephews visiting from Ottawa (they’re not downtown). I asked what they thought about the convoy and was told it was terrible. When I probed a bit to see how they were directly affected, it became clear they weren’t directly bothered at all. Clearly their parents had told them how to feel about it.

Oh it's not going well for him at the EU conference:
https://youtu.be/kNiL5ZivqAk

https://youtu.be/K59EMxGson4

I’d seen clips of the Croatian MEP’s lambasting of Trudeau, but the applause at the end of the woman’s speech was telling as well.

 I did laugh during Trudeau’s speech when he raised the spectre of the trucker convoy as a threat to democracy, while not that far away an actual threat to democracy is playing out in the Ukraine. If we had been serious about preventing what’s happening there we should have been enacting sanctions as the military buildup was occurring, but in the 3 weeks prior Trudeau was nowhere to be seen (except by zoom from an undisclosed location) until he used the nuclear option to break up a primarily peaceful protest.

It's all about context. it is equally absurd, if not more so, that these truckers were calling themselves "freedom fighters" while the real freedom fighters were family men and women losing their lives protecting their homes. 

there can be threats to democracy large and small. 

I also find it odd that people keep harping on "trudeau is in hiding". he wasn't in hiding. his son had covid so he was isolating with him. plus there were security concerns about the convoy. this is normal security protocol for a head of state. if you recall, there was a nutjob that in 2020 rammed his vehicle through the gates of the PM's residence. take into account that this was one guy. now you have thousands of semi trucks, some of them nutjobs. I don't blame him at all for being moved. 

DarthMaeglin

Just found out the attempted arson that Mendicino linked to the protesters wasn’t related to the convoy. Why hasn’t this been given more coverage (I had to google “Ottawa protest arson”)?

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2022/3/21/1_5828171.amp.html

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Nami said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Parksy said:

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

I’m honestly not sure how much international attention the other incidents received, but for me that’s a non-issue. The Act is meant to address moments of national crisis, both domestic and international.

As for a review of the use of the Act, it’s required by law in the Act itself, and please forgive me if I refuse to accept the government’s version of events at face value.

I’m also still waiting for Trudeau to apologize to the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors for saying she (Melissa Lantsman and the CPC generally) stands with people who wave swastikas. Fortunately for me, I’ve stopped expecting any level of decency from this PM.

It was very telling to me this weekend talking with my nephews visiting from Ottawa (they’re not downtown). I asked what they thought about the convoy and was told it was terrible. When I probed a bit to see how they were directly affected, it became clear they weren’t directly bothered at all. Clearly their parents had told them how to feel about it.

Oh it's not going well for him at the EU conference:
https://youtu.be/kNiL5ZivqAk

https://youtu.be/K59EMxGson4

I’d seen clips of the Croatian MEP’s lambasting of Trudeau, but the applause at the end of the woman’s speech was telling as well.

 I did laugh during Trudeau’s speech when he raised the spectre of the trucker convoy as a threat to democracy, while not that far away an actual threat to democracy is playing out in the Ukraine. If we had been serious about preventing what’s happening there we should have been enacting sanctions as the military buildup was occurring, but in the 3 weeks prior Trudeau was nowhere to be seen (except by zoom from an undisclosed location) until he used the nuclear option to break up a primarily peaceful protest.

It's all about context. it is equally absurd, if not more so, that these truckers were calling themselves "freedom fighters" while the real freedom fighters were family men and women losing their lives protecting their homes. 

there can be threats to democracy large and small. 

I also find it odd that people keep harping on "trudeau is in hiding". he wasn't in hiding. his son had covid so he was isolating with him. plus there were security concerns about the convoy. this is normal security protocol for a head of state. if you recall, there was a nutjob that in 2020 rammed his vehicle through the gates of the PM's residence. take into account that this was one guy. now you have thousands of semi trucks, some of them nutjobs. I don't blame him at all for being moved. 

It reads like you’re doing some profiling, which I’ve heard we’re not supposed to do (at least when it comes to minorities I suppose. Oh wait, these people were/are a “fringe minority”.).

If the threat was so dire as to force the PM to an undisclosed location, why were all the other MPs allowed to pass through and even mingle with the protesters? It’s a question that was put to Mendicino several times in the transcript I posted, with nothing approaching a satisfactory answer.

It’s cute how many outlets now refer to the protesters as part of the “so-called Freedom Convoy”. I think I’ll start referring to all protesters for all causes as “so-called” since there will pretty much always be someone who disagrees. Good for the goose is good for the gander after all.

HughFreakingDillon

how am I profiling? in every gathering of thousands, regardless of politics, there's going to be a few nuts. are you seriously saying 100% of the convoy was peaceful, fun loving pacifists?

Nami

https://youtu.be/F_zQe4pCk30

Guess he's still waiting for JT's apology.  Lol

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

how am I profiling? in every gathering of thousands, regardless of politics, there's going to be a few nuts. are you seriously saying 100% of the convoy was peaceful, fun loving pacifists?

You took an isolated incident and applied to an unrelated group. And no, I’m not saying all the protesters were angels, just like every protest pretty much ever, as you said. In virtually all protests extreme statements are made (whether or not we agree), but I’ve never seen it be such a concern until this group, who, let’s be honest, many have felt quite comfortable looking down their noses at for a variety of reasons, encouraged by the PM’s own words. Back to your example, was any attempt made (in Ottawa) to drive trucks into buildings or people? No.

Again, if the situation was so unsafe then MPs (and citizens) should never have been allowed to walk through the demonstrations. My blame falls squarely on the local police force who essentially gave up before the convoy ever arrived.  We saw other jurisdictions manage the satellite convoys relatively smoothly and peacefully, it really seemed like when the authorities engaged directly with the participants progress was possible, a tactic I’m not sure was even attempted in the nation’s capital.

If someone could provide proof of an arsenal on site in Ottawa that would sway my opinion, but I’m quite sure we all would’ve heard about it on the front page (unlike the results of the arson investigation I posted above that needed to be searched out).

HughFreakingDillon

Nami said:

https://youtu.be/F_zQe4pCk30

Guess he's still waiting for JT's apology.  Lol

I watched that entire video. what exactly is the point? the police chief never confirmed no firearms were found. he confirmed no charges have been laid. that's it. I'm guessing that means he's not going to comment on any on-going investigations, which is normal protocol.

and then he goes on to complain about the media? laughable. 

DarthMaeglin

Guess I should’ve watched the video before my last post, since the answer about weapons seems to be a definite maybe? A month later if charges haven’t been laid, I’m still leaning towards no.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

Nami said:

https://youtu.be/F_zQe4pCk30

Guess he's still waiting for JT's apology.  Lol

I watched that entire video. what exactly is the point? the police chief never confirmed no firearms were found. he confirmed no charges have been laid. that's it. I'm guessing that means he's not going to comment on any on-going investigations, which is normal protocol.

and then he goes on to complain about the media? laughable. 

Will there be consequences to the Star journalist and Minister Miller if it’s found there were no weapons? Doubtful these days, I’ll refer back to Mendicino’s comments on the arson.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

Guess I should’ve watched the video before my last post, since the answer about weapons seems to be a definite maybe? A month later if charges haven’t been laid, I’m still leaning towards no.

I lean that way as well, however, this guy (and so many fucking politicians do this, I'm guessing they think the public will fall for it) seems to think that this is some kind of "gotcha" moment, and it's.....zero.