Canadian Politics Redux

static111

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

so I guess Trudeau's not a dictator anymore? that was a very short reign of terror. 

Smart move. The dictator to the south has a bigger military.

might sanction our exports of maple syrup and good potato chips. 

Oh please! We have better chips and Maple Syrup!

all I ever hear Americans talk about when coming to Canada is our apparent "crazy potato chip aisle" at the supermarket (and Kraft peanut butter and Smarties). Plus Americans seem to go nuts for All Dressed. 

To most americans Canada is an exotic foreign country.  My grandpa was canadian and I lived 45 minutes from the border so my insights are skewed.  

The Juggler

So the People's Karenvan in DC is basically them driving in circles around the beltway and then getting stuck in DC traffic in the city itself. Losers.

HughFreakingDillon

Karenvan. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

oftenreading

The city of Victoria responds to the ongoing supposed anti-mandate protests in the most Victoria way possible - by limiting vehicle access to the protest area around the legislature to local residents only and telling protestors that they are welcome to come and protest as long as they come on foot, public transit or bike.

This definitely cut down on the honking yesterday. We shall see if the reported new convoy arrives and if so where they go. BC has over 90% fully vaxxed over the age of 15 and widespread support for the mandates; in fact, a majority of people did not want the mask mandate lifted but it's gone and our vaccine passport for non-essential activities is due to be lifted April 8. Not much left for these honkers to protest but they do it anyway. It's really not about the mandates anymore. 

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/victoria-police-establish-james-bay-checkpoints-in-preparation-for-protest-5177778

Halifax2TheMax

WHAT? What’s that? I’m sorry, I can’t hear you. It’s too loud.

https://apple.news/AUmDXphH-Q8C2eLrNyffb1g

Nami

Guess that's the only way to stay in power...

oftenreading

61% of Canadian report being satisfied with the way the federal government has handled the pandemic, and 68% continue to mask when they go out in public. 

A majority in BC (63%) also is satisfied with the way the provincial government and the provincial health officer have handled the pandemic as is the case in several other provinces but notably not in Alberta.

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/opinion-poll-gives-federal-covid-19-handling-a-public-opinion-booster-5171781

Zod

Why are we introducing new social programs like dental care when we're running a big deficit, and our existing programs like health care are in shambles.  Shouldn't we fix what'd we got before we starting adding more to the pile? sigh....

HughFreakingDillon

dental care IS health care. it should never have been separated in the first place. 

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

dental care IS health care. it should never have been separated in the first place. 

Yes, dental diseases lead to hypertension and other more dangerous situations.  You can't have bacteria leaking into your bloodstream. 

oftenreading

Dental care and a better prescription drug coverage plan should always have been included. The current medication coverage plans are a patchwork mess. 

DarthMaeglin

It will be interesting to see how this deal effects the committee investigating the use of the Emergencies Act. I suspect it will get swept under the rug, establishing an extremely poor precedent for application of the Act in the future.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

It will be interesting to see how this deal effects the committee investigating the use of the Emergencies Act. I suspect it will get swept under the rug, establishing an extremely poor precedent for application of the Act in the future.

I see zero problem with the government invoking the Emergencies Act. It was limited, it was voted upon, it was seemingly required (mostly because of pressure from America) and it was ended promptly.   So...  for all of those afraid of Trudeau, can you point to why you're so afraid? And what became of this Emergencies Act usage and what it did that was so bad? 

While on the topic of fear, I'll go back to I think it was Nami posting Jordan Peterson and speak on why I don't listen to anything he has to say. 

He stokes fear. Full stop.  When he rose to prominence with his absurd opinions about transgender rights, he continued to make the same point over and over again and see if you can spot the similarity here.  He kept opining: "If we let this happen, we won't be able to even debate gender in five years." He was indicating that our fundamental right to free speech was under some sort of attack.  This was Peterson stoking fear. Textbook. Government was amending a law that he didn't agree with and instead of making a good, logical argument, he focused instead on fear.  Well... problem I have with what he, and others do is that he was wrong. Quite wrong.  It's been five years.  We still have those debates. So he was flat out wrong and what he was trying to make people afraid of... never amounted to anything. He'll never admit it. But he was wrong. So what has this history taught me? What he was doing was fear mongering... and it's sort of the same thing I'm seeing about the Emergencies Act.  'Let this happen now... and oh boy, you'll see what the dictator is gonna do later.'  That's stoking fear. Convincing people to be afraid of something that may or may not happen with little to no historical context or evidence of any sorts. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. 

So looking back at his invoking the Act. 

Was it an extreme decision? I'll say yes, even though the law was very limited.
Was this during extreme circumstances? Yes. In as much as people will say a PM has never done this before... sure. But these protests had never occurred before either. Not to the extent they did and never ever did it escalate to the point where we got a call from the POTUS... correct me if I'm wrong. (Occupying Ottawa, blocking multiple international border crossings) 
Was this to protect the rights and freedoms of other citizens? Yes.
Was this to protect our economy? Yes.
Was this after being pressured into doing something by our Daddy, USA? Yes. 

Important, factual boxes are being checked here in my opinion. 

So this fear... what circumstances do you think are going to occur whereby Trudeau will 'abuse his power' again? Like when you say or think 'gosh, this is terrible....'  What are you afraid of? 

PJ_Soul

DarthMaeglin said:

It will be interesting to see how this deal effects the committee investigating the use of the Emergencies Act. I suspect it will get swept under the rug, establishing an extremely poor precedent for application of the Act in the future.

I was in support of the Emergencies Act being used in this case, so I don't think there is anything to be 'swept under the rug', and I don't think it set a poor precedent. *shrug*

Parksy

While on subject of JT...   his deal with the NDP.  

Bergen is stating that this is a power grab, desperately clinging onto power.  She also stated that 82% of people did not vote for a Liberal-NDP coalition government.  (?)  

She says that the public has been hoodwinked. 

So, is she correct or is she just throwing a hissy fit because she herself is actually losing power? 

My take.. not only does this make a lot of sense, but I'm perfectly fine with it.  And I'm not sure that this is out of the ordinary in any way. If I was Trudeau, this is the exact move I would make at the exact time I would make it. I've said this before, I don't like our political system but it is what it is.  Show me a different way that works, and I'll be all for it.  But presently, we have a multi party system and we are quite divided. A lot of the points I've made on this forum are generally with regard to a majority, which the Liberals didn't have... but they had the NDP and for the most part, Liberal and NDP agendas are much  more in line than with Conservatives. 

So as a voter who went Liberal... does this bother me or affect me? No.  My hope is that Singh will know enough to make sure he has something to gain from this and keeps Trudeau in check. 

If you're a conservative, does this bother or affect you? Oh hell yes.  And the conservatives are an absolute mess right now. I saw a headline on the Toronto Sun of all papers being critical of the Cons saying this leadership race was going to do way more harm than good.  And I thought.... "Yep."  While Poliviere, Charest, Bergen and whoever else spar each other for leadership....  Trudeau and Singh will be laughing all the way to 2025. 

I wonder how faded those 'F*ck Trudeau' flags are going to be come 2025. 

It's as if the Habs (Libs) were about to play the Leafs (Cons) in the playoffs and the Flames (NDP) said to the Habs: "We'll give you our best players, just make sure the Leafs don't get out of the first round again."     

HughFreakingDillon

the unchecked fear mongering, even among more left-leaning yet right of center people here, about the use of this emergencies act, was so out of check with reality, honestly, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I've been hearing/reading about Trudeau wanting to be a dictator since the beginning, and it's just flat out ridiculous. 

the constant use of "never been used before", which just automatically gets people neck hair standing on end, not thinking critically that "oh, sure, it's never been used before because it's never HAD to be used before". 

DarthMaeglin

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

It’s not even Trudeau reusing the EA that I’m concerned about, although I could see him using it in regards to his environmental agenda. If he truly is clean on the use of the EA then Trudeau should have no problem with an open and transparent examination of what occurred and why (except his default setting is to cover up, as we’ve seen over 7 years now).

I’ve considered all the situations we’ve seen play out that were worse than what happened in Ottawa (remember, the border blockades were pretty much dealt with by the time Trudeau decided to do anything other than slander) where the EA wasn’t used (G20 in Toronto, hockey riots, Occupy movement, “land defender” blockades, railroad blockades, tree occupations). I’ll say again, if Ottawa was facing an insurrection and seige, they were the worst ones ever! If it was so dangerous why were MPs allowed to attend Parliament, especially the women with the rape gangs that were roaming the land according to Bill Blair?

My main concern is that the bar is now so low for employing the EA future PMs will be less hesitant to use it. And in this case, it was never actually fully authorized (no Senate vote).

Sometimes peoples’ concerns aren’t always partisan, even if it’s easier to dismiss them as such.

Then again, all this is said by someone who is part of a fringe minority who holds unacceptable views and stands with people who wave swastikas, according to dear Justin.

None of those reached the levels of disruption this freedom convoy did, got the international attention it did, and got the attention of POTUS. 

With regards to my first point... if the fear is that he is covering something up, what is he hiding in terms of the EA?  As someone pointed out... if there is no fire to put out, why call in a bunch of fire trucks?    You're asking what occurred and why....   We already know that. It was outlined and explained. So beyond what was outlined and explained... what needs to be investigated? 

Your last point is good, honest and deserved criticism of JT. 

HughFreakingDillon

I really don't understand the "bar is so low" argument. these blockades were literally costing people and businesses millions of dollars and the ability to move freely....I thought that, especially that last one, was a human right? now all of a sudden some conservatives don't care about that? 

trudeau was using an act to deal with a problem already solved, I'd counter that with the truckers were protesting a mandate that was already being lifted. 

it was never about the mandates. nearly every industry was "forced" to vax or lose their jobs. this was pure political theatre by a bunch of whiny babies who felt empowered to espouse their bullshit in public. 

erebus

"I've said this before, I don't like our political system but it is what it is.  Show me a different way that works, and I'll be all for it.  But presently, we have a multi party system and we are quite divided. A lot of the points I've made on this forum are generally with regard to a majority, which the Liberals didn't have... but they had the NDP and for the most part, Liberal and NDP agendas are much  more in line than with Conservatives. "

Well said.  I am all for electoral reform though, I think you would see a more accurate representation. 
Enough of either party having to "own" the other. Work together ffs
Drove me bananas when Bergen didn't want to do anything about the protests so the Libs would have to wear it longer
Again, WORK TOGETHER