Canadian Politics Redux

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

because you keep saying they "do nothing" and "are ineffective". that's simply untrue. 

why look at spread as the justification? spread doesn't matter. the outcomes do. that's all that's ever mattered. keeping people out of the hospital. spread mattered prior to the vaccine. 

I haven't seen anyone being forced to take the vaccine. no one is showing up at your home to give you the jab or toss you in jail. not being able to go to a restaurant is not being "forced". I wasn't forced to get the jab. I chose to get it to keep my job. CHOSE. Actually, I chose to get it long before it was mandated. 

HughFreakingDillon

HughFreakingDillon said:

the gander are a bunch of whiny babies that are 10% of an industry that want mandates dropped when they are already scheduled to be. they are not oppressed in any way, shape or form.

the goose has had to deal with cultural genocide for literally decades. how that is comparable is incomprehensible to me. 

this comparison reminds me of the Jan 6th apologists saying "but what about the BLM protests?" as an excuse. sure, let's enslave your people for 250 years, and continue to oppress you through policies, and then we'll talk. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

because you keep saying they "do nothing" and "are ineffective". that's simply untrue. 

why look at spread as the justification? spread doesn't matter. the outcomes do. that's all that's ever mattered. keeping people out of the hospital. spread mattered prior to the vaccine. 

I haven't seen anyone being forced to take the vaccine. no one is showing up at your home to give you the jab or toss you in jail. not being able to go to a restaurant is not being "forced". I wasn't forced to get the jab. I chose to get it to keep my job. CHOSE. Actually, I chose to get it long before it was mandated. 

I don’t believe I’ve ever said they do nothing or aren’t effective period. I’ve said they are nowhere near as effective as initially presented. There is a difference.

We all have our own metrics by which we’re making judgments, and spread is one (of several, as I said). Outcomes is, in fact, another factor for me.

As far as I’m concerned making someone choose between bodily autonomy and their job constitutes forcing someone (yes, there is the appearance of choice), but I don’t deny that everyone’s allowed their own standards as to what constitutes “forced.”

oftenreading

A reminder that the policies of restrictions and mandates in Canada have WORKED, with Canada seeing much lower rates of cases, hospitalizations and deaths compared to the US despite similar risk factors.

https://apple.news/AjFM8wsqiSeeoGMo6sTbwdQ

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

the gander are a bunch of whiny babies that are 10% of an industry that want mandates dropped when they are already scheduled to be. they are not oppressed in any way, shape or form.

the goose has had to deal with cultural genocide for literally decades. how that is comparable is incomprehensible to me. 

this comparison reminds me of the Jan 6th apologists saying "but what about the BLM protests?" as an excuse. sure, let's enslave your people for 250 years, and continue to oppress you through policies, and then we'll talk. 

Laws for some, not for all? The only place mitigating circumstances should come into account is the sentencing phase.

PJ_Soul

oftenreading said:

A reminder that the policies of restrictions and mandates in Canada have WORKED, with Canada seeing much lower rates of cases, hospitalizations and deaths compared to the US despite similar risk factors.

https://apple.news/AjFM8wsqiSeeoGMo6sTbwdQ

Thanks - seems many Canadians really do need that reminder.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

the gander are a bunch of whiny babies that are 10% of an industry that want mandates dropped when they are already scheduled to be. they are not oppressed in any way, shape or form.

the goose has had to deal with cultural genocide for literally decades. how that is comparable is incomprehensible to me. 

this comparison reminds me of the Jan 6th apologists saying "but what about the BLM protests?" as an excuse. sure, let's enslave your people for 250 years, and continue to oppress you through policies, and then we'll talk. 

Laws for some, not for all? The only place mitigating circumstances should come into account is the sentencing phase.

I didn't say that. I said one group of entitled idiots thinking they have just cause to do something because another group did something not at all similar and for wildly different reasons is disingenuous. 

dignin

oftenreading said:

A reminder that the policies of restrictions and mandates in Canada have WORKED, with Canada seeing much lower rates of cases, hospitalizations and deaths compared to the US despite similar risk factors.

https://apple.news/AjFM8wsqiSeeoGMo6sTbwdQ

Thanks you vaccines.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

oftenreading said:

A reminder that the policies of restrictions and mandates in Canada have WORKED, with Canada seeing much lower rates of cases, hospitalizations and deaths compared to the US despite similar risk factors.

https://apple.news/AjFM8wsqiSeeoGMo6sTbwdQ

Thanks you vaccines.

"limited effectiveness"

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

static111

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

I thought your healthcare system already had a major meltdown

HughFreakingDillon

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

I thought your healthcare system already had a major meltdown

haha I see what you did there. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)

As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)

As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?

yes, we've all known this would happen for a while. we've all known that plans were in place since mid-january that most or all restrictions would end this coming spring. which makes this convoy all the more absurd. and the claim of victory laughable. 

trudeau is trying to get these idiots to end their occupation. it's interesting you call him antagonizing. he is the one RESPONDING to the antagonizing. 

Meltdown99

DarthMaeglin said:

Meltdown99 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

seizing bank accounts without warrants…how Castro of him.

I’d be curious to know how many groups are frantically moving money around for fear of being targeted next.

I’m sure people are.  There is a business owner in NB who donated $75000…a normal guy who is getting demonized by the divisive PM..sad that this PM has so much hate for the working class…

Meltdown99

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

I thought your healthcare system already had a major meltdown

It was such a health emergency that our governments went to work fixing our healthcare shortfalls…then I woke from the dream and people remained fearful…

Meltdown99

Have at your vaccine.  I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed.  They lied.  It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..

I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked.  It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.

what would that standard be, by the way? total collapse of our health care system? waiting until we put doctors in a "who lives and who dies today?" sort of situation?

It would be a combination of hospitalization statistics, community spread, severity of the dominant strain, all balanced against our wonderful rights and freedoms. (I’m probably missing some factors to be considered, but that’s what jumps to top of mind.)

As I typed the above, cbc had a doctor on who was making the point that given the current situation it seems reasonable to ease restrictions and end the segregation of the unvaccinated (transmission by the vaccinated being specifically cited). Which begs the question of the Prime Minister, why continue the divisive and antagonistic policies and rhetoric? What will it accomplish now?

yes, we've all known this would happen for a while. we've all known that plans were in place since mid-january that most or all restrictions would end this coming spring. which makes this convoy all the more absurd. and the claim of victory laughable. 

trudeau is trying to get these idiots to end their occupation. it's interesting you call him antagonizing. he is the one RESPONDING to the antagonizing. 

You’ve apparently chosen (or just as likely see it differently) to not acknowledge Trudeau’s shift from “Canada doesn’t mandate vaccines” in June to “Mandates or the highway” when he called the election in August (credibly established by members of his own caucus). Remember the uproar over unvaccinated Conservatives when Parliament returned? Since the election he’s done everything he can to paint anyone (not minorities, obviously) who has questions or disagreements as anti-vaccine and a card-carrying Conservative. He has been utterly inflexible on his policies, despite only leading a minority government (clear mandate my ass).

As I see it (feel free to disagree, I know many will), but Trudeau began laying the groundwork for the current protests when he chose to conquer and divide in the last election. These are his chickens coming home to roost.

It was very telling as I watched the emergency debate that all the parties were talking about the need to bring the people together. Except the Liberal party which wanted to unite Canadians by everyone acquiescing to their policies with zero negotiation.

Meltdown99

  This Trudy  speak…uhhhh

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

Have at your vaccine.  I was told if we get vaccinated all mandates are removed.  They lied.  It took these protest to move to bring these mandates to an end..

I will not be taking anymore vaccine…lockdowns never worked.  It put a strain on everyone who was effected in some way..Stop the bullshit. 

I think that's great.  I don't think you should ever take another vaccine for anything again.