Canadian Politics Redux

Parksy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_5Z2sHO4oU

I feel like I'm watching an episode of Trailer Park Boys.... only it's not Trailer Park Boys. 

"I truly believe it's the majority of Canada that speaks for this." 

See the problem is... we need to start listening to these trucker dudes. They speak truth. They honestly believe 2+2=5 and therefore, we should as well! I'm so happy they are fighting the good fight for us, representing us and our values. We don't need elections... we need James Doull.  

DarthMaeglin

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

mrussel1

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

HughFreakingDillon

Parksy said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_5Z2sHO4oU

I feel like I'm watching an episode of Trailer Park Boys.... only it's not Trailer Park Boys. 

"I truly believe it's the majority of Canada that speaks for this." 

See the problem is... we need to start listening to these trucker dudes. They speak truth. They honestly believe 2+2=5 and therefore, we should as well! I'm so happy they are fighting the good fight for us, representing us and our values. We don't need elections... we need James Doull.  

"we're told by the CBC that the police chief of Ottawa has resigned"
"he's a coward"
"well maybe he resigned in support of your cause"
"uh......yeah.....maybe he....uh....did that". 

really great representation there, truckers. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

Parksy

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Everything is politically calculated for Trudeau.   (which is not a good thing, in my opinion) He, correctly, sees this as another battle in the culture war. 

In the end though....  our next election is Oct 2025.  I highly doubt any of these will play a role in that election, but I could be wrong. Right now though, he wants to stand firmly on his stance... which was his election platform.... which is why I find all of this absolutely absurd... he wants to be on the side of caution, health, science.  He, correctly, wants to appear to be in the corner of folks like me who look upon the Freedom Convoy with disgust and embarrassment.  We won't know what any of this amounts to until the next election.  

It would have been awesome to have had an election recently to see where the people want to go and who they want repres... oh. Oh yeah. Right. 

Meltdown99

Gotta keep the pressure on until all mandates are gone…but it appears good ship Trudeau’s is only left with the bc dolt…he’s adding restrictions and forcing vaccine mandates on healthcare workers in private settings…have fun in bc with a healthcare worker shortage…you’ll have no problem replacing them…come to Ontario, Ford has woken up all of sudden…it’s like the switchboard has been ringing off the hook in queens park…

DarthMaeglin

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

cblock4life

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

You seriously make me laugh!!! 
 

Halifax2TheMax

Meltdown99 said:

https://twitter.com/thelivingstone5/status/1493631060600664067?s=21

Anyone subscribing to this has most likely never set foot in China to watch Friends, tried to steal a poster in North Korea or booked a room at the putin on the Ritz in Moscow.

The same-same/both sides argument is the laziest political argument ever created.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

Meltdown99

DarthMaeglin said:

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

seizing bank accounts without warrants, compel tow companies and drivers to tow vehicle, suspend drivers licences, revoke plates and carrier licenses, seizing of equipment all without a court order or warrants..how Castro of him.

remember Americans are experts at human rights violations, the patriot act, fisa court, Guantanamo Bay…need I go on.  Not really sure why they are interested in Canada if they aren’t willing to do their own research…

Meltdown99

Live in fear if you want, your fears are not my fears, mandate yourself, mask yourself…it’s called choice.  See a therapist if need be I don’t care…be responsible for yourself.  It appears Doug Ford is waking up…

you come in contact with unvaccinated people daily, if you leave your house.  Not allowing the unvaccinated to participate in society based on personal medical decisions is wrong…maybe st one time it seemed like a good idea at one time…but not now.

DarthMaeglin

Meltdown99 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

seizing bank accounts without warrants…how Castro of him.

I’d be curious to know how many groups are frantically moving money around for fear of being targeted next.

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

mrussel1

DarthMaeglin said:

Meltdown99 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

seizing bank accounts without warrants…how Castro of him.

I’d be curious to know how many groups are frantically moving money around for fear of being targeted next.

Well if they're donations destined for activities that are illegal,  then they probably should be concerned.  Why would the govt knowingly allow them to be funded? Makes no logical sense. 

DarthMaeglin

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Meltdown99 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

So if all the easing of measures has been planned for weeks why the refusal to engage with the protesters and inform them? When talking with other groups of protesters has previously been the norm?

And I keep seeing and hearing pundits claim that Trudeau has taken ownership of the situation.  Until he admits to his own role in exacerbating things all he’s done is taken charge.

Consensus seems to be that we’re allowing a dangerous precedent to be set regarding the EMA, where the case has not been clearly made to enact it. But I don’t expect even the minimum of information from this government unless it suits their political purposes.

Which EMA measures did Trudeau take?  I asked this before and no one has answered.  

So far the only concrete action that’s been taken (maybe?) is that the money raised to support these protests is being frozen or seized. Based on (apparently) legally gathered information before enacting the EMA.

 I can only trust that all demonstrations will be similarly scrutinized moving forward (but will boldly predict that this will not be done for so-called progressive protests).

seizing bank accounts without warrants…how Castro of him.

I’d be curious to know how many groups are frantically moving money around for fear of being targeted next.

Well if they're donations destined for activities that are illegal,  then they probably should be concerned.  Why would the govt knowingly allow them to be funded? Makes no logical sense. 

It just strikes me as odd that the government had already established foreign funding for this group, but we’ve never heard of other groups facing similar scrutiny. Especially when it comes to the (ongoing, illegal) blockades at pipeline construction sites, where there have been numerous allegations made of foreign dollars at play.

 I guess all my arguments presented could be summed up as “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” I’ve watched the goose run roughshod over Canadian laws for decades now, but the gander deserves the hammer?

HughFreakingDillon

the gander are a bunch of whiny babies that are 10% of an industry that want mandates dropped when they are already scheduled to be. they are not oppressed in any way, shape or form.

the goose has had to deal with cultural genocide for literally decades. how that is comparable is incomprehensible to me. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, for the millionth fucking time: you can catch covid even if vaxxed. but it's 20 goddamn times less likely you'll die from it. ffs this is getting unreal. 

I believe the statistic you keep citing was based on delta, not omicron. While delta does continue to circulate I don’t believe it’s currently the dominant strain, so the number isn’t necessarily accurate to right now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-19-vaccines-and-omicron#2-dose-Pfizer-vaccine-vs.-Omicron

omicron data still shows, while less effective against symptomatic infection, strong effectiveness against hospitalization and death.

there is no denying this. 

Certainly I’ve never denied that outcomes are effected, I’ve simply been pointing out that the vaccines (presented as our way “out of” covid) are doing less and less (at this point zero in a practical sense) to prevent spread. If we’re going to continue to essentially force people to get vaccinated against covid to prevent outcomes not spread, there’s a whole lot of other diseases we should be mandating vaccines for.

the end point was always about mitigating serious outcomes. curbing the spread was a bonus in the beginning, but hand washing, masking, and distancing was always the best to prevent spread. 

in a practical sense, it is not "doing zero". it's seriously making me believe you just don't want to admit that the vaccines are highly effective at their job (preventing hospitalization and death) so there is no excuse for mandates. 

Dude, I have numerous times openly acknowledged that the vaccines mitigate outcomes so I don’t know where you’re reading that.

 I suppose I just have a very high standard for mandating behaviours, and yes, the initial science looked good (90-95% prevention of infection), but as nature took hold those numbers have dropped and dropped. If you’re going to force injections then I look for control of spread as a justification (amongst several considerations). I was happy to see science is finally looking at the protections of natural infection.

I’ll also say again that the federal government has tools to get some of the hesitant vaccinated. Make non-mrna vaccines widely available. I’m now wondering about the investments of journalists in Pfizer and moderna, since no one is asking why this isn’t being done.