Canadian Politics Redux

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,786
    I still don't know if they even were assigned, but the more that I think about it the more I don't have a problem with it if they were. 

    The goal of a mock drill is to make the situation as realistic as possible, and it's hard to deny that the majority of disruptive protests over the past year have been related to covid.
    I hear what you’re saying, but does that mean for the airplane hijacking scenario they follow the stereotype of the middle eastern terrorist, or, as I’m suggesting go with generic terrorists?

    Is that actually the most likely risk in a hijacking situation these days, or is that, as you say, a stereotype? 

    Mondays are very busy work days for me so I don't have time to look up any data on that, nor do I have the expertise to know what would be considered the most likely risks in aviation these days. If anyone else wants to, feel free!
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    I still don't know if they even were assigned, but the more that I think about it the more I don't have a problem with it if they were. 

    The goal of a mock drill is to make the situation as realistic as possible, and it's hard to deny that the majority of disruptive protests over the past year have been related to covid.
    I looked at this from that same perspective...  

    Perhaps those who organized and planned this training had that same mentality:  "Let's make this as realistic as possible."  

    And around the boardroom perhaps they looked at the freedom convoy and thought 'hey, here's our most recent and possibly most logical situation." 

    Ok.  Even if that's true.  I think someone should have stood up and said "this is a terrible idea.  The message of the protesters has zero relevance to this training exercise."

    What Darth is saying is correct IMO...  it equates to using arabic men to reenact a plane hi-jacking. There's no excuse for that kind of type-casting... in this context for a lot of reasons. 
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  • BF89905BF89905 Posts: 1,280
    Parksy said:
    There is a lot of misconceptions about the freedom convoy etc... and while this is just my opinion... feel free to fact check: 

    The Freedom Convoy was not a protest. And as such, it was not a protected right under the Charter nor was it democratic in any way. 

    The leaders of this Convoy are FUBAR. Amongst them, racist bigots who promote violence. To be clear about that... we're not talking about a couple yahoos who showed up to Ottawa... these were the people who organized it and led it. 

    The offspring of this shit-tree are the branches you now see showing up to basically accost Trudeau and Singh. And while a small amount of people see this as patriotic... I see it as idiotic and the exact opposite of good Canadian behaviour. 

    How did this all happen?  I don't recall this blatant and unrelenting hatred of Trudeau after the Aga Khan scandal, or the SNC Lavalin scandal... which tells me the same people who hate him now quite simply weren't paying attention before.  This all happened and was born out of a worldwide pandemic that... and sorry if this doesn't fit people's narratives.. Trudeau did not cause.  The measures he took and supported were in line with every 1st world nation except Sweden.  We were and still are one of the freest nations on planet earth.  We enjoy many liberties that majority of countries in the world do not.  Liberties such as parking a large truck that suggests "Fuck Trudeau" right in front of the man's workplace for three weeks. If you cannot come to terms with plain and obvious truth and plain and obvious facts....  then leave.  Go live in a better country if you think our leader is a dictator and you think our country is oppressive. Good luck out there. 
    Well said. 
     DoFo better not win our Ontario provincial election. The bar for politicians everywhere is so low. Just "give me some truth" while actually answering a direct question, please. 

    How politicians that clearly don't help the vast majority of the social hierarchy - middle and lower class socioeconomic status folx - keep getting elected is perplexing. 

    Stay healthy everyone
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    this is concerning: Trudeau's government adopts dozens of secret orders-in-cabinet that are being kept secret

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/secret-orders-in-council-1.6467450

    I had never even heard of secret OIC's before. 
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    this is concerning: Trudeau's government adopts dozens of secret orders-in-cabinet that are being kept secret

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/secret-orders-in-council-1.6467450

    I had never even heard of secret OIC's before. 
    Stuff like this is why I really don't want Trudeau in power anymore.  Just a terrible leader. 

    That said...  

    This is being reported through the CBC.  I saw another article today (From the CBC) reporting the auditor generals reports about failing policies and failed promises from the federal government. 

    Interesting point here....   the CBC.  

    The same organization that Pierre Polievre and his buddy Jordan Peterson have called "Trudeau's Propaganda Machine."  

    Give us better politicians! 
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    yeah, that's what I've never understood the "defund the CBC" argument before. Unless people are talking about CBC TV news. But I don't watch that either anymore, so I can't really comment. Sure, they don't report on every right wing "scandal", but they report on the actual issues that makes sense, as far as I can see. 
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    yeah, that's what I've never understood the "defund the CBC" argument before. Unless people are talking about CBC TV news. But I don't watch that either anymore, so I can't really comment. Sure, they don't report on every right wing "scandal", but they report on the actual issues that makes sense, as far as I can see. 
    You represent a small percentage of the population that uses their own eyes and ears to inform themselves as opposed to whatever some blow hard is saying. lol   
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    edited June 2022
    this is concerning: Trudeau's government adopts dozens of secret orders-in-cabinet that are being kept secret

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/secret-orders-in-council-1.6467450

    I had never even heard of secret OIC's before. 
    I fully get that some things need to be kept secret from the public but the parameters (as the article notes they supposedly are) need to be incredibly strict. Trudeau’s 70+ over 7 years to Harper’s almost-30 over 10 years raises more eyebrows than I have, lol.

    I mean, it’s undeniable now that Trudeau out-Harpers Harper by miles (Harper still being one of Trudeau’s favourite targets), lol.


     I had thought about posting about this earlier and was going to tip my hat to the CBC for some objective journalism, given my regular complaints about their bias.

    Edit to add: I get that many of Trudeau’s seem to be covid-related, but times of emergency need extra scrutiny, even after the fact, not sure if the secrecy expires.


    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    but I can see how, as the article says, this would further fuel the idea that he is some sort of secret dictator. transparency should be paramount. Yes, it's a pandemic. But that many measures need to be kept secret from the government? hmm....
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    but I can see how, as the article says, this would further fuel the idea that he is some sort of secret dictator. transparency should be paramount. Yes, it's a pandemic. But that many measures need to be kept secret from the government? hmm....
    Completely agree with you for a change, on all points, lol. The silly ones will twist this, the rest should be asking some questions.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    haha
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • erebuserebus Posts: 524
    edited June 2022
    Ontario election today.
    Kind of similar situation as the feds.
    Incompetent leader will probably win a majority,  but he is the devil you know, the other alternatives are worse.
    I will vote for the best local candidate who I think will do the best for the riding (which will be an opposition party). We haven't had a Con in probably 30-40 years or more 
    Post edited by erebus on
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  • BF89905BF89905 Posts: 1,280
    erebus said:
    Ontario election today.
    Kind of similar situation as the feds.
    Incompetent leader will probably win a majority,  but he is the devil you know, the other alternatives are worse.
    I will vote for the best local candidate who I think will do the best for the riding (which will be an opposition party). We haven't had a Con in probably 30-40 years or more 
    I'm hoping that the sample polls that get released to signal public opinion go away permanently. It's a way for the ruling media corps to use a bandwagon tactic to steer the election.

    I'm optimistically thinking that enough Ontario residents are angry with the disregard that the Conservatives have shown everyone not in wealthy upper class of society for four years, that they think, "I need to vote for anyone other than the Conservatives." Dofo has failed forward his entire life. I'm far from flawless, but c'mon he's just not that intelligent. 

    Running an election campaign on building a highway for $10 billion dollars when social services, hospitals, education, and long term care is in shambles is the definition of negligence when you're in charge of facilitating the greater good for people in a province.

    There's gotta be better days ahead, right?




  • ZodZod Posts: 8,909
    probably not.. lol.. we have a left leaning federal government, and they like to spend all the money on everything but things I actually give a shit about (health care and the environment).

    I don't think it matters if you vote left or right, they both don't get it done and the middle/lower class is worse off after either side is in office.
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    Zod said:
    probably not.. lol.. we have a left leaning federal government, and they like to spend all the money on everything but things I actually give a shit about (health care and the environment).

    I don't think it matters if you vote left or right, they both don't get it done and the middle/lower class is worse off after either side is in office.
    Correct. lol 

    Our provincial and federal elections ... and our politics as a whole only amount to one factual truth:  They all suck. 
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    So I did hear back from the airport today, pretty much what I expected to hear. And I still maintain the same level of realism could be achieved with generic protesters (hence giving no one any reason to be bothered).


    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,786
    So I did hear back from the airport today, pretty much what I expected to hear. And I still maintain the same level of realism could be achieved with generic protesters (hence giving no one any reason to be bothered).



    Thanks for posting this. I wasn't even sure you would hear back, so at least there's that. 

    Like I said before, I don't have an issue with this reasoning. 
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  • BF89905BF89905 Posts: 1,280
    Zod said:
    probably not.. lol.. we have a left leaning federal government, and they like to spend all the money on everything but things I actually give a shit about (health care and the environment).

    I don't think it matters if you vote left or right, they both don't get it done and the middle/lower class is worse off after either side is in office.
    It's a sad state of affairs. All time low voter turnout..... Apathy abounds...... What a disappointing outcome. Unfortunately, the Conservatives in Ontario don't give a hoot about the environment.... unless one of their projects threatens a donor's golf club. 

    I agree that health care and the environment should be front and center. Defunding the police is something I'm getting behind. The RCMP also needs to get a good cleaning. How's about getting First Nations' communities clean filtered water..... it is 2022 in Canada. There's so much to do, and so much apathy. 

    My approach to voting going forward is pretty simplistic. Consider the vulnerable people around us, which politician/party do I see any hope in really helping these people out?...... Clearly it's not DoFo and the PC's.

    Take care everyone
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    Seriously, Ministers have resigned over far less, does this government understand ministerial responsibility? How many times did he continue to parrot the arson as justification for the EA, even after it was disproven (I personally witnessed at least one time, watching his “testimony” (he’s forced me to use quotation marks) before the committee.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marco-mendicino-emergencies-act-convoy-1.6488424

    For clarity, this post is about a clearly dishonest Minister, not the protests themselves.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    The EA use is a mess. 

    I'm still personally convinced that it was used out of pressure from Biden... which is something the Liberals will NEVER be able to admit for good reasons ....  that said.. rules still need to be followed. 

    Along the same lines... I watched a story yesterday regarding police smashing into cars and arresting protesters in BC protesting the old growth forests.  They were blocking roadways in an attempt to get their point across. (sound familiar?) 

    To be clear... laws are laws... doesn't matter what your protesting, you need to follow the laws.  I may be personally in support of one thing or another but the laws need to be followed. 

    Using the EA needed to meet certain thresholds and it seems like it did not.  Then the Minister essentially lied/misled the House with regards to why it was used.  He should be done immediately and the party held to account. (we know that won't happen.) 

    Equally important... is why on earth did the cops act so swiftly and aggressively to remove people and vehicles from roadways in BC as opposed to Ottawa and the border crossings?  If the argument against the EA was that powers were already in place to take care of this stuff... then why weren't those powers used?! Trudeau said publicly and correctly that he did not want to basically 'tell the cops what to do' but he absolutely must have been screaming behind closed doors as to why the cops weren't doing anything. 
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    Parksy said:
    The EA use is a mess. 

    I'm still personally convinced that it was used out of pressure from Biden... which is something the Liberals will NEVER be able to admit for good reasons ....  that said.. rules still need to be followed. 

    Along the same lines... I watched a story yesterday regarding police smashing into cars and arresting protesters in BC protesting the old growth forests.  They were blocking roadways in an attempt to get their point across. (sound familiar?) 

    To be clear... laws are laws... doesn't matter what your protesting, you need to follow the laws.  I may be personally in support of one thing or another but the laws need to be followed. 

    Using the EA needed to meet certain thresholds and it seems like it did not.  Then the Minister essentially lied/misled the House with regards to why it was used.  He should be done immediately and the party held to account. (we know that won't happen.) 

    Equally important... is why on earth did the cops act so swiftly and aggressively to remove people and vehicles from roadways in BC as opposed to Ottawa and the border crossings?  If the argument against the EA was that powers were already in place to take care of this stuff... then why weren't those powers used?! Trudeau said publicly and correctly that he did not want to basically 'tell the cops what to do' but he absolutely must have been screaming behind closed doors as to why the cops weren't doing anything. 
    100%. 

    cops tend to act a tad swifter and more forcefully when it comes to liberal causes it seems. I'm sure many of them were sympathetic to the convoy. 
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    Oftentimes with logging and pipeline protests by the time police move in there have been court orders and injunctions in place that have essentially been ignored by the protesters, which MAY explain some instances of perceived aggression by the police (not sure about the specifics of the incident you mentioned Parksy).
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    Oftentimes with logging and pipeline protests by the time police move in there have been court orders and injunctions in place that have essentially been ignored by the protesters, which MAY explain some instances of perceived aggression by the police (not sure about the specifics of the incident you mentioned Parksy).
    Without knowing anything for certain yet...  I'll see what can be dug up ... I HIGHLY doubt any court order or injunction was used against the protesters in BC. Even if that was the case...  same reasoning applies here... where were the court orders and injunctions against the freedom convoy folk?  I'll see what I can find. 
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    Parksy said:
    Oftentimes with logging and pipeline protests by the time police move in there have been court orders and injunctions in place that have essentially been ignored by the protesters, which MAY explain some instances of perceived aggression by the police (not sure about the specifics of the incident you mentioned Parksy).
    Without knowing anything for certain yet...  I'll see what can be dug up ... I HIGHLY doubt any court order or injunction was used against the protesters in BC. Even if that was the case...  same reasoning applies here... where were the court orders and injunctions against the freedom convoy folk?  I'll see what I can find. 
    As far as I know there was only one injunction brought against the Ottawa protesters, by a citizen, to stop the incessant honking, which it did by all reports.

    There is still (I believe) a class action lawsuit against the Ottawa group, but that’s a different can of worms, lol.
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    Parksy said:
    Oftentimes with logging and pipeline protests by the time police move in there have been court orders and injunctions in place that have essentially been ignored by the protesters, which MAY explain some instances of perceived aggression by the police (not sure about the specifics of the incident you mentioned Parksy).
    Without knowing anything for certain yet...  I'll see what can be dug up ... I HIGHLY doubt any court order or injunction was used against the protesters in BC. Even if that was the case...  same reasoning applies here... where were the court orders and injunctions against the freedom convoy folk?  I'll see what I can find. 
    As far as I know there was only one injunction brought against the Ottawa protesters, by a citizen, to stop the incessant honking, which it did by all reports.

    There is still (I believe) a class action lawsuit against the Ottawa group, but that’s a different can of worms, lol.
    I'm curious though ...  why would there need to be any sort of court order or injunction at all to enforce rules already on the books. 

    The lawsuit thing I can understand ...  but when it comes to cops needing to clear public roadways.. that should already be written into law. 
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 2,108
    Parksy said:
    The EA use is a mess. 

    I'm still personally convinced that it was used out of pressure from Biden... which is something the Liberals will NEVER be able to admit for good reasons ....  that said.. rules still need to be followed. 

    Along the same lines... I watched a story yesterday regarding police smashing into cars and arresting protesters in BC protesting the old growth forests.  They were blocking roadways in an attempt to get their point across. (sound familiar?) 

    To be clear... laws are laws... doesn't matter what your protesting, you need to follow the laws.  I may be personally in support of one thing or another but the laws need to be followed. 

    Using the EA needed to meet certain thresholds and it seems like it did not.  Then the Minister essentially lied/misled the House with regards to why it was used.  He should be done immediately and the party held to account. (we know that won't happen.) 

    Equally important... is why on earth did the cops act so swiftly and aggressively to remove people and vehicles from roadways in BC as opposed to Ottawa and the border crossings?  If the argument against the EA was that powers were already in place to take care of this stuff... then why weren't those powers used?! Trudeau said publicly and correctly that he did not want to basically 'tell the cops what to do' but he absolutely must have been screaming behind closed doors as to why the cops weren't doing anything. 
    100%. 

    cops tend to act a tad swifter and more forcefully when it comes to liberal causes it seems. I'm sure many of them were sympathetic to the convoy. 
    That’s not really what I’ve observed, based in part on toppled and headless statues and other acts of vandalism often committed in full view of the authorities. “Overreactions” seem to occur more when legal orders have been ignored and dismissed, as I suggested above.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    There are indeed a handful of laws on the books for blocking roadways.    Interesting 
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    Parksy said:
    The EA use is a mess. 

    I'm still personally convinced that it was used out of pressure from Biden... which is something the Liberals will NEVER be able to admit for good reasons ....  that said.. rules still need to be followed. 

    Along the same lines... I watched a story yesterday regarding police smashing into cars and arresting protesters in BC protesting the old growth forests.  They were blocking roadways in an attempt to get their point across. (sound familiar?) 

    To be clear... laws are laws... doesn't matter what your protesting, you need to follow the laws.  I may be personally in support of one thing or another but the laws need to be followed. 

    Using the EA needed to meet certain thresholds and it seems like it did not.  Then the Minister essentially lied/misled the House with regards to why it was used.  He should be done immediately and the party held to account. (we know that won't happen.) 

    Equally important... is why on earth did the cops act so swiftly and aggressively to remove people and vehicles from roadways in BC as opposed to Ottawa and the border crossings?  If the argument against the EA was that powers were already in place to take care of this stuff... then why weren't those powers used?! Trudeau said publicly and correctly that he did not want to basically 'tell the cops what to do' but he absolutely must have been screaming behind closed doors as to why the cops weren't doing anything. 
    100%. 

    cops tend to act a tad swifter and more forcefully when it comes to liberal causes it seems. I'm sure many of them were sympathetic to the convoy. 
    That’s not really what I’ve observed, based in part on toppled and headless statues and other acts of vandalism often committed in full view of the authorities. “Overreactions” seem to occur more when legal orders have been ignored and dismissed, as I suggested above.
    Personally I see the difference between said 'acts'  and  demonstrations are that when these acts are happening (statues for example) it is without a doubt mischief... but are the police there watching it happen and doing nothing?  

    We've discussed at length the various demonstrations...   I'm not sure we've seen enough 'right leaning' demonstrations who are out breaking laws.  So there may not be enough data to make the assertions Hugh is.  That said... using the big one that we know of... there seems to be no doubt that it was handled super lightly by the police as opposed to what we see with logging demonstrations, etc. 

    I also tend to agree with Hugh regarding police sympathizing with freedom convoy folk which lends a hand to support the rationale that cops were lenient with freedom convoy.   That's not just personal experience... that's coppers posing for photos with them in Ottawa and a Durham copper getting reprimanded for posting a video in uniform in support of them. 
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,559
    In as much as I welcome an investigation into the Liberals using the EA...   I think it makes sense to investigate police procedures with regards to demonstrations.   

    Situations like these should end up with the police being able to say they left nothing to imagination and speculation. Law gets broken, this is how we enforce it.  Full stop... doesn't matter what the cause is... message is clear:  follow the law. 
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    Parksy said:
    In as much as I welcome an investigation into the Liberals using the EA...   I think it makes sense to investigate police procedures with regards to demonstrations.   

    Situations like these should end up with the police being able to say they left nothing to imagination and speculation. Law gets broken, this is how we enforce it.  Full stop... doesn't matter what the cause is... message is clear:  follow the law. 
    I thought an automatic investigation was hard wired right into use of the EA. How is that not happening?
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


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