County Clerk released

mickeyrat

My question for all who posted in this thread, who among you is in the middle seeking the compromise.. If you aren't dont answer, your previous posts have spoken loud enough.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Just sucking away at state funds while grandstanding.

What a champion! We only get a glimpse of it. Imagine the hate filled dinner conversations that occur at her dinner table- right after they ask the Lord to bless their food and make it useful to their bodies?

what kind of hate filled shit do YOU spew before you cut the first piece of meat?

I'm not following you? What are you trying to get at?

WhatYouTaughtMe

mickeyrat said:

My question for all who posted in this thread, who among you is in the middle seeking the compromise.. If you aren't dont answer, your previous posts have spoken loud enough.

I am 100% ok with this woman believing what she wants. I just don't believe it has a place in any kind of gov't position. Her personal religion should be just that, personal. Laws govern everyone from all faith and no faith. I am sure she took some kind of an oath to uphold the law. If she placed her hand on a bible and swore to god, good for her. The bible isn't constitutional law. I'm all for standing up for what you believe in whether I agree or not. She's done that. Now she needs to start doing the job she was elected to do or step aside. If the KY government changes the law so she can get around it, that's fine by me too. There shouldn't be any grey area when it comes to issuing legal documents.

mickeyrat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Just sucking away at state funds while grandstanding.

What a champion! We only get a glimpse of it. Imagine the hate filled dinner conversations that occur at her dinner table- right after they ask the Lord to bless their food and make it useful to their bodies?

what kind of hate filled shit do YOU spew before you cut the first piece of meat?

I'm not following you? What are you trying to get at?

Well surely given you interest in this case specifically and general disdain of any religion in general , you start your dinners off with hate filled discussions related to these subjects? No?

hedonist

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

mickeyrat said:

My question for all who posted in this thread, who among you is in the middle seeking the compromise.. If you aren't dont answer, your previous posts have spoken loud enough.

I am 100% ok with this woman believing what she wants. I just don't believe it has a place in any kind of gov't position. Her personal religion should be just that, personal. Laws govern everyone from all faith and no faith. I am sure she took some kind of an oath to uphold the law. If she placed her hand on a bible and swore to god, good for her. The bible isn't constitutional law. I'm all for standing up for what you believe in whether I agree or not. She's done that. Now she needs to start doing the job she was elected to do or step aside. If the KY government changes the law so she can get around it, that's fine by me too. There shouldn't be any grey area when it comes to issuing legal documents.

Amen (no irony intended).

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mickeyrat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Just sucking away at state funds while grandstanding.

What a champion! We only get a glimpse of it. Imagine the hate filled dinner conversations that occur at her dinner table- right after they ask the Lord to bless their food and make it useful to their bodies?

what kind of hate filled shit do YOU spew before you cut the first piece of meat?

I'm not following you? What are you trying to get at?

Well surely given you interest in this case specifically and general disdain of any religion in general , you start your dinners off with hate filled discussions related to these subjects? No?

No.

You'll have to forgive my confusion. There was a reference to meat in there as well.

And this is quite the stretch on your part. Obviously I've hurt your feelings somewhere along the line. Sorry about that.

Kat

Ok, thread was closed for review.

1. Stop the personal comments. Now and forever. If someone wants to think this woman is the devil incarnate, they can think it and say it. If someone thinks she's an angel incarnate, they can think it and say it, in rebuttal. That's a discussion...leave the personal attacks out of it. You will likely be banning yourself.
2. Legal discussions in this matter seem to be the main point.

HughFreakingDillon

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't care what anyone thinks God's work is supposed to be, partly because no one could know that, namely because God doesn't exist anyway, and also because God has no place in government anyhow, so what difference does it make?? JAG, how do you justify your idea that personal religious belief has any place in government and how the law defines and serves equal rights, and how do you reconcile it with your own apparent respect of the Constitution in other regards? For example, how can you possibly defend your right to free speech or right to bear arms, while supporting opposition to the Constitution based on your religious beliefs?

I guess it's pretty ridiculous of me to expect any kind of logical comment or answer from you about anything at this point, but I keep hoping. I do actually think that you are just a very creative troll who loves to say whatever you feel will get people irritated (i picture you sitting at the computer and chuckling and cackling over how gullible we all are), but even so, I am curious to see what you can come up with as an answer to that question.

I love how when I say something that actually makes sense, I'm called a troll. Why don't you suggest I see a doctor again? I am asked questions and answer them, only to be told I dodge questions. I also said before that when I make a statement, I don't feel the need to defend my statement to death. It's not going to be changed by you.

The difference is that I don't resort to hate and violence, degrading people based on appearance (and then bash others for doing the same thing) insult others religions, etc. maybe that's why I am considered a troll? I make a simple typo, an "n" vs an "m" and it's noted and made fun of in three seperate posts? Again, bullying, and ganging up.

I am open to debating the comments I made. I am not open to answering every question you create to try and discredit the things I say. That's the 4th or 5th time I've said it, continue to say I dodge questions I could care less.

All I've asked is to please respect my religion. It's mocked repeatedly. Jesus died for us, and it's ignored daily. The dude died being beaten to death by people who disagreed with his beliefs. Was that right? Is the actions you're taking any different tha the roams?

Stop calling me and my lord and savior a troll. We're not trolls and were good people. I want to believe you are too but it gets harder and harder every day. I'll pray for you again tonight but I'm losing hope.

It doesn't seem as though JAG is willing to answer your question, PJSoul, so I will. Throughout history, people have been in agreement with certain laws, whether constitutional or otherwise, while still disagreeing with others. I don't believe it's relevant if those beliefs are religious in nature or not. the point is, laws get changed and changed back all the time, hence all the amendments to the constitution as a living document. for example, many people are pro 1st ammendment, but against the 2nd.

however, if this woman is sworn to uphold the law as stated by the supreme court, she can fight that law all she wants........from the sidelines. she simply cannot perform her duties as an elected official properly if she refuses to perform any portion of it as required by law. there should be no caveat to allow her to hold that position and not have to sign off on same sex licenses. that in itself is excusing discrimination. I don't personally believe that religious discrimination against her applies here either, if that is what she, or those who support her, are saying. the onus of the complaint resides with those receiving/not receiving the service, not those administering it.

Drowned Out

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

PJ_Soul

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't care what anyone thinks God's work is supposed to be, partly because no one could know that, namely because God doesn't exist anyway, and also because God has no place in government anyhow, so what difference does it make?? JAG, how do you justify your idea that personal religious belief has any place in government and how the law defines and serves equal rights, and how do you reconcile it with your own apparent respect of the Constitution in other regards? For example, how can you possibly defend your right to free speech or right to bear arms, while supporting opposition to the Constitution based on your religious beliefs?

I guess it's pretty ridiculous of me to expect any kind of logical comment or answer from you about anything at this point, but I keep hoping. I do actually think that you are just a very creative troll who loves to say whatever you feel will get people irritated (i picture you sitting at the computer and chuckling and cackling over how gullible we all are), but even so, I am curious to see what you can come up with as an answer to that question.

I love how when I say something that actually makes sense, I'm called a troll. Why don't you suggest I see a doctor again? I am asked questions and answer them, only to be told I dodge questions. I also said before that when I make a statement, I don't feel the need to defend my statement to death. It's not going to be changed by you.

The difference is that I don't resort to hate and violence, degrading people based on appearance (and then bash others for doing the same thing) insult others religions, etc. maybe that's why I am considered a troll? I make a simple typo, an "n" vs an "m" and it's noted and made fun of in three seperate posts? Again, bullying, and ganging up.

I am open to debating the comments I made. I am not open to answering every question you create to try and discredit the things I say. That's the 4th or 5th time I've said it, continue to say I dodge questions I could care less.

All I've asked is to please respect my religion. It's mocked repeatedly. Jesus died for us, and it's ignored daily. The dude died being beaten to death by people who disagreed with his beliefs. Was that right? Is the actions you're taking any different tha the roams?

Stop calling me and my lord and savior a troll. We're not trolls and were good people. I want to believe you are too but it gets harder and harder every day. I'll pray for you again tonight but I'm losing hope.

But you just said in another thread that you thought that referee deserved to be attacked.

mickeyrat

HughFreakingDillon said:

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't care what anyone thinks God's work is supposed to be, partly because no one could know that, namely because God doesn't exist anyway, and also because God has no place in government anyhow, so what difference does it make?? JAG, how do you justify your idea that personal religious belief has any place in government and how the law defines and serves equal rights, and how do you reconcile it with your own apparent respect of the Constitution in other regards? For example, how can you possibly defend your right to free speech or right to bear arms, while supporting opposition to the Constitution based on your religious beliefs?

I guess it's pretty ridiculous of me to expect any kind of logical comment or answer from you about anything at this point, but I keep hoping. I do actually think that you are just a very creative troll who loves to say whatever you feel will get people irritated (i picture you sitting at the computer and chuckling and cackling over how gullible we all are), but even so, I am curious to see what you can come up with as an answer to that question.

I love how when I say something that actually makes sense, I'm called a troll. Why don't you suggest I see a doctor again? I am asked questions and answer them, only to be told I dodge questions. I also said before that when I make a statement, I don't feel the need to defend my statement to death. It's not going to be changed by you.

The difference is that I don't resort to hate and violence, degrading people based on appearance (and then bash others for doing the same thing) insult others religions, etc. maybe that's why I am considered a troll? I make a simple typo, an "n" vs an "m" and it's noted and made fun of in three seperate posts? Again, bullying, and ganging up.

I am open to debating the comments I made. I am not open to answering every question you create to try and discredit the things I say. That's the 4th or 5th time I've said it, continue to say I dodge questions I could care less.

All I've asked is to please respect my religion. It's mocked repeatedly. Jesus died for us, and it's ignored daily. The dude died being beaten to death by people who disagreed with his beliefs. Was that right? Is the actions you're taking any different tha the roams?

Stop calling me and my lord and savior a troll. We're not trolls and were good people. I want to believe you are too but it gets harder and harder every day. I'll pray for you again tonight but I'm losing hope.

It doesn't seem as though JAG is willing to answer your question, PJSoul, so I will. Throughout history, people have been in agreement with certain laws, whether constitutional or otherwise, while still disagreeing with others. I don't believe it's relevant if those beliefs are religious in nature or not. the point is, laws get changed and changed back all the time, hence all the amendments to the constitution as a living document. for example, many people are pro 1st ammendment, but against the 2nd.

however, if this woman is sworn to uphold the law as stated by the supreme court, she can fight that law all she wants........from the sidelines. she simply cannot perform her duties as an elected official properly if she refuses to perform any portion of it as required by law. there should be no caveat to allow her to hold that position and not have to sign off on same sex licenses. that in itself is excusing discrimination. I don't personally believe that religious discrimination against her applies here either, if that is what she, or those who support her, are saying. the onus of the complaint resides with those receiving/not receiving the service, not those administering it.

KD has a legal accomodation under KY law. period. Until KY legislature removes the obligation for elected clerks signature this is where they are at. A few posts up show when that may occur.

Until that happens I hope the judges order is enforceable about the allowance of the deputy clerks signature.

HughFreakingDillon

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.

WhatYouTaughtMe

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

Some good points in here. In fact I think I'm going to let this one ride. I stated my point of view and hopefully addressed some others.

Drowned Out

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.

I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.

I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue

I would have said the same thing about abortion 5 or so years ago, but now we're seeing states taking action to make it much more difficult to have a right to choose. And there are schools in the US that have resumed teaching creationism, which is another thing I never thought would happen. I find this Kim Davis thing pretty sinister because I don't really trust America to cap off crazy shit like this, lol. But I HOPE that it does.

HughFreakingDillon

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.

I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue

anytime you think "we won, who cares?", there's a group waiting in the wings to change things up when you aren't looking.

the fight for equality doesn't end with legislation. it ends when there's no more opposition.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

ugh....I know we all have our own pet causes....but does this woman really deserve nearly 700 posts of discussion (between two threads) on this board during an election cycle? Wreaks of the kind of divisive / distracting story that keeps us in-fighting instead of up-fighting....this story has probably been as prevalent in my news feed (mostly indy media) as any other world issue for the past few weeks. When you think about it from a big picture perspective, it's not that big a deal...but it does make for a good argument and a great way for everyone to show their moral superiority....

it's not just the woman. it's an interesting discussion about the legalities of what she did/didn't do. and equal rights IS a big deal. especially when you have a presidential candidate that supports inequality.

True. I think the fact that American politicians, some of whom are running for President, are supporting her stance is definitely worth discussion. These are also people who have been voted into other offices. Not to mention that there are apparently millions of people who vote who think that Kim Davis has a good point.

I suppose....but really....the mass majority of people disagree with her. Equal rights are there - that battle has already been won. The system did it's job in rooting her out when she ignored the law....the support and political grandstanding is being enabled by the disproportionate coverage. It may be interesting, but if there wasn't one or two of her supporters out of the fifty or so regs on this board, the thread would have died a long time ago. We all just like to argue

anytime you think "we won, who cares?", there's a group waiting in the wings to change things up when you aren't looking.

the fight for equality doesn't end with legislation. it ends when there's no more opposition.

Yes.

One can say 'that fight's been won'... but... obviously there's a little more fight that's necessary.

Drowned Out

ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.

PJ_Soul

Drowned Out said:

ya you guys are right....I think it's naive to have said the fight's been won anyway....there may be equality in the eyes of the law but obviously not in the way it's applied. It is important. I guess I'm just surprised that this topic has managed to remain as the top thread on this forum for so long, when it doesn't seem like there is all that much to discuss about it.

It might just because of this, if you get my drift:



I mean, look at it. That is an honest to god, Righteous with a capital "R" holy-roller holding hands with Mike Huckabee while Eye of the Tiger played and people cheered and waved crosses around and everything .... People are going to turn and stare when abstract art actually becomes reality. I am personally finding this scene hard to get out of my mind.