remove thier flag ? totally disagree. that flag was used as a war flag not a ownership of slaves flag. can someone explain why this flag has to be removed.
Godfather.
Cos' flags/symbols change meaning through time. Swastika? Peace sign? All change meaning as time moves & things happen. Time for it to go.
the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?
Godfather.
I may be wrong, but I believe some neo-Nazis in Germany are using/waving the confederate flag these days, as the nazi flag is illegal there. Larry Wilmore mentioned it in his show last night.
Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.
when..if if he gets to prison believe me he'll be a dumb kid crying for his mommy and when of he gets older 50's or so he'll probably wonder that stupid kid was thinking....but then again he could be a racist puke his whole life, legally he's a man but under that age requierment of manhood he's just a stupid kid (no that does not excuse his actions) does anybody know if he was or had been on any medications ?
Godfather.
He was arrested for illegal possession of suboxone. Haven't read anything about him being on any prescribed medications.
thanks ! drugs prescribed or not seem to be a common denominator most in murders, either the killer had a drug problem of some sort or in many cases the fight started over drugs, so we got a young man who is a racist (according to the media) and uses drugs.....bad combanation.
Godfather.
GF - you posted earlier about medications, and again in the post above. Early on in the other thread on this topic a couple of people also wondered if he was on medication, and one poster seemed to be implying that medication could have caused the violence. I posted a reply there and will copy it here also in case you are interested but don't want to scroll back looking for it. (Sorry for quoting myself, which seems weird).
At this point we don't seem to have any real information about whether this guy had a mental illness or not. We do, however, have some information about his own stated aims, which were to kill black people because he thought they were taking over the country, and the beliefs implied by his identification with white supremacist groups. At one point in American history, his beliefs were commonplace; does that mean that everyone who held those views was mentally ill? A sizable chunk of the population (although thankfully diminishing) still believes it - are they all mentally ill? Were all those Germans who followed Hitler mentally ill? Were the Hutus who participated in the Rwandan genocide mentally ill?
I'll say again what I've said it before on AMT and AET - I continue to be disturbed by the way we casually blame mental illness for these sorts of crimes of hate and violence. The evidence is clear that the vast majority of violence is perpetrated by people without mental illness. Racism and hate is not a mental illness. Alcohol and drug use is far more highly correlated to violence than mental illness, and there is some initial information that this guy used at least some sorts of drugs. And yet every time some guy engages in a mass murder or spree killing we automatically talk about "mental illness". Most of these guys are not really mentally ill; they may have really disturbed personality development and they may have serious anger issues, but that's not the same as mental illness. Even the fact that they may have seen a psychiatrist or psychologist before doesn't necessarily imply the existence of a mental illness, since people either seek out (or are forced to seek out) mental health assessment and treatment for all sorts of reasons that can include pressure from family, employer or even the legal system, a desire to get certain medications prescribed, or even a genuine desire to change things in their lives (these sorts of people are rarely happy, although they tend to misplace the blame for that).
So GF you are absolutely correct that the evidence shows that drugs (and alcohol) and violence often go together, more so than mental illness and violence.
I was trying to point out that drugs play a big roll in crime and espically murder not just this case and I'm glad you saw that, one thing I read a while back is that a large percentage of crimes are drug related and espically drugs for depression or mental illiness,I don't know what this guys story is but it sounds like drugs were involved to some extant, and myself being a one time drug user I know how imotions can turn to anger and confussion rather quickly.
I really hope this kids actions don't get written off (here or elsewhere) as a drug related or mental health related incident. Obviously the kid is f'ed up in the head- you have to be to commit a crime so senseless and heinous, and maybe drugs were involved too but those are not the central issue. The central issue is that this was a racist act committed by by a racist individual targeted specifically at black victims. To turn the focus away from the core issue- racism- that would be disastrous.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I really hope this kids actions don't get written off (here or elsewhere) as a drug related or mental health related incident. Obviously the kid is f'ed up in the head- you have to be to commit a crime so senseless and heinous, and maybe drugs were involved too but those are not the central issue. The central issue is that this was a racist act committed by by a racist individual targeted specifically at black victims. To turn the focus away from the core issue- racism- that would be disastrous.
agreed ! but this media blitz about the confederate flag has the whole country (or a lot of it) defending that flag, there probably has been more time and money spent fighting aginst and defending that flag then time given to the victims and thier families, this is what happens ...ever wonder why there is no media blits or attempt at social change for any other race related crimes ? (I can't wait to read the comments for that staement lol !) people should be focasing on the victims and thier families and how can they be helped and not just these victims but all victims of violent crimes....but there are no ratings or money to be had unless there is a angle for the media and race groups to exploit it. I don't mean to sound cold about this killing but thats the way it really is after all is said and done.
I really hope this kids actions don't get written off (here or elsewhere) as a drug related or mental health related incident. Obviously the kid is f'ed up in the head- you have to be to commit a crime so senseless and heinous, and maybe drugs were involved too but those are not the central issue. The central issue is that this was a racist act committed by by a racist individual targeted specifically at black victims. To turn the focus away from the core issue- racism- that would be disastrous.
agreed ! but this media blitz about the confederate flag has the whole country (or a lot of it) defending that flag, there probably has been more time and money spent fighting aginst and defending that flag then time given to the victims and thier families, this is what happens ...ever wonder why there is no media blits or attempt at social change for any other race related crimes ? (I can't wait to read the comments for that staement lol !) people should be focasing on the victims and thier families and how can they be helped and not just these victims but all victims of violent crimes....but there are no ratings or money to be had unless there is a angle for the media and race groups to exploit it. I don't mean to sound cold about this killing but thats the way it really is after all is said and done.
Godfather
Not even close. You should see the businesses that have donated. At least 5 local businesses off the top of my head has donated $100,000 each.
I really hope this kids actions don't get written off (here or elsewhere) as a drug related or mental health related incident. Obviously the kid is f'ed up in the head- you have to be to commit a crime so senseless and heinous, and maybe drugs were involved too but those are not the central issue. The central issue is that this was a racist act committed by by a racist individual targeted specifically at black victims. To turn the focus away from the core issue- racism- that would be disastrous.
agreed ! but this media blitz about the confederate flag has the whole country (or a lot of it) defending that flag, there probably has been more time and money spent fighting aginst and defending that flag then time given to the victims and thier families, this is what happens ...ever wonder why there is no media blits or attempt at social change for any other race related crimes ? (I can't wait to read the comments for that staement lol !) people should be focasing on the victims and thier families and how can they be helped and not just these victims but all victims of violent crimes....but there are no ratings or money to be had unless there is a angle for the media and race groups to exploit it. I don't mean to sound cold about this killing but thats the way it really is after all is said and done.
Godfather
Not even close. You should see the businesses that have donated. At least 5 local businesses off the top of my head has donated $100,000 each.
wow ! very cool ! I haven't seen that in the news but it's good to hear.
I really hope this kids actions don't get written off (here or elsewhere) as a drug related or mental health related incident. Obviously the kid is f'ed up in the head- you have to be to commit a crime so senseless and heinous, and maybe drugs were involved too but those are not the central issue. The central issue is that this was a racist act committed by by a racist individual targeted specifically at black victims. To turn the focus away from the core issue- racism- that would be disastrous.
agreed ! but this media blitz about the confederate flag has the whole country (or a lot of it) defending that flag, there probably has been more time and money spent fighting aginst and defending that flag then time given to the victims and thier families, this is what happens ...ever wonder why there is no media blits or attempt at social change for any other race related crimes ? (I can't wait to read the comments for that staement lol !) people should be focasing on the victims and thier families and how can they be helped and not just these victims but all victims of violent crimes....but there are no ratings or money to be had unless there is a angle for the media and race groups to exploit it. I don't mean to sound cold about this killing but thats the way it really is after all is said and done.
Godfather
Not even close. You should see the businesses that have donated. At least 5 local businesses off the top of my head has donated $100,000 each.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The panthers, SCE&G, Boeing, the city of Charleston plus more. Those were $100,000 donations. There are a few more. I haven't heard much on how much has been raised through the private donations, but I'm sure it's alot.
These families will have plenty of money to share between them when it's all said and done.
The panthers, SCE&G, Boeing, the city of Charleston plus more. Those were $100,000 donations. There are a few more. I haven't heard much on how much has been raised through the private donations, but I'm sure it's alot.
These families will have plenty of money to share between them when it's all said and done.
The panthers, SCE&G, Boeing, the city of Charleston plus more. Those were $100,000 donations. There are a few more. I haven't heard much on how much has been raised through the private donations, but I'm sure it's alot.
These families will have plenty of money to share between them when it's all said and done.
sad...not a good trade off tho.
Godfather.
no, it isn't. Maybe the families will use the money to try and change hearts and minds?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The panthers, SCE&G, Boeing, the city of Charleston plus more. Those were $100,000 donations. There are a few more. I haven't heard much on how much has been raised through the private donations, but I'm sure it's alot.
These families will have plenty of money to share between them when it's all said and done.
It's great so see so much help going out. It's an indication that many people want be helpful as well as to put an end to racism, senseless violence, and hatred. Let's hope that out of this mess comes a movement toward lessening those kinds of tragedies.
But as much as the money is good and helpful, we can't buy our way out of the darkness. We have to put a light on it and deal with it directly.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
After writing the above, I asked myself, "OK, so what do we do to stop this sort of thing?" I wish I knew. But one idea that came to mind is this:
Do what we are doing here. Talk about the victims and how we can help them. Minimize the focus on the perpetrator because that focus, that spotlight is exactly what that kid wants. Look at that smirk on his face in the arrest photos. Those photo ops should not occur. The kid should not get all the attention. Instead, I say have someone tell him, "Look, you're no hero. You're not even infamous. We're taking you out of the spotlight. Your going to rot in some shit hole of a jail for the rest of your worthless life and no one is going to give two shits. You are nothing."
I think it should always be this way with this kind of monster.
And then on the positive side, lets start educating kids. Someone said to me recently, "All babies come out as angels. What happens after that depends on a lot." We could work to make what happens good rather than hateful and bad and education might be the best place to start.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'd give him a higher grade then good with eulogy if say it was epic !
Epic is an odd term for a eulogy. I've heard some on the news say it was definitely one of Obama's best speeches he has given as president. And one of the top 5 presidential speeches of the last 100 years.
I'm roughly quoting from memory what struck me as the most powerful part of the speech:
"We do not earn God's grace. We do not deserve God's grace. We are all sinners. He gives it to us freely anyway, and it's up to us how to choose how we receive it."
When I was a practicing Catholic, I came to understand grace as God's love present in the world. Those lines just really move me. Even as a non-religious person now, I still understand love present in the world that has to come from somewhere, and it is such a huge responsibility to do the right thing with it.
I've been an emotional wreck all week watching all unfold, following the local Charleston papers and social media outlets. I'm pretty sure I may even lose some life-long friends over my views about the flag and the monuments, but I feel like I have to say what I feel is right to them. I even decided not to travel to Charleston as planned because it's way too crazy now for me to be there, and I don't know when I'll ever have the urge to go back to see the friends that I'll have left. I know that the people of Charleston do have a lot of heart. But I also know what I know about the persistent, seemingly unconquerable racism and poverty in that town, and I've concluded for now that I can have no part of it. It's been rough.
I know the victims are resting in peace. I hope the families continue to find their own peace in each other and in the many acts of love coming their way.
I'm roughly quoting from memory what struck me as the most powerful part of the speech:
"We do not earn God's grace. We do not deserve God's grace. We are all sinners. He gives it to us freely anyway, and it's up to us how to choose how we receive it."
When I was a practicing Catholic, I came to understand grace as God's love present in the world. Those lines just really move me. Even as a non-religious person now, I still understand love present in the world that has to come from somewhere, and it is such a huge responsibility to do the right thing with it.
I've been an emotional wreck all week watching all unfold, following the local Charleston papers and social media outlets. I'm pretty sure I may even lose some life-long friends over my views about the flag and the monuments, but I feel like I have to say what I feel is right to them. I even decided not to travel to Charleston as planned because it's way too crazy now for me to be there, and I don't know when I'll ever have the urge to go back to see the friends that I'll have left. I know that the people of Charleston do have a lot of heart. But I also know what I know about the persistent, seemingly unconquerable racism and poverty in that town, and I've concluded for now that I can have no part of it. It's been rough.
I know the victims are resting in peace. I hope the families continue to find their own peace in each other and in the many acts of love coming their way.
I just finished watching video of the entire speech- first chance I've had until now. The impact is powerful- it's a very fine speech. Yet the impact all this has had on you, what dreams, becasue you know the area, sounds more personal, intense and difficult- I'm sorry to hear it's been so difficult. I get the same feeling from Last Exit's posts and a few others who are also closer. I can't begin to image how this affects the lives of those even closer to the events and those involved. I truly hope something good comes from all this. I just get a sense that must happen somehow.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015/06/23/nightly-show-host-larry-wilmore-to-south-carolina-just-take-the-flag-down/
Godfather.
Godfather.
I don't mean to sound cold about this killing but thats the way it really is after all is said and done.
Godfather
wow ! very cool ! I haven't seen that in the news but it's good to hear.
Godfather.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000498123/article/panthers-owner-donates-100000-to-charleston-victims
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
These families will have plenty of money to share between them when it's all said and done.
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But as much as the money is good and helpful, we can't buy our way out of the darkness. We have to put a light on it and deal with it directly.
Do what we are doing here. Talk about the victims and how we can help them. Minimize the focus on the perpetrator because that focus, that spotlight is exactly what that kid wants. Look at that smirk on his face in the arrest photos. Those photo ops should not occur. The kid should not get all the attention. Instead, I say have someone tell him, "Look, you're no hero. You're not even infamous. We're taking you out of the spotlight. Your going to rot in some shit hole of a jail for the rest of your worthless life and no one is going to give two shits. You are nothing."
I think it should always be this way with this kind of monster.
And then on the positive side, lets start educating kids. Someone said to me recently, "All babies come out as angels. What happens after that depends on a lot." We could work to make what happens good rather than hateful and bad and education might be the best place to start.
"We do not earn God's grace. We do not deserve God's grace. We are all sinners. He gives it to us freely anyway, and it's up to us how to choose how we receive it."
When I was a practicing Catholic, I came to understand grace as God's love present in the world. Those lines just really move me. Even as a non-religious person now, I still understand love present in the world that has to come from somewhere, and it is such a huge responsibility to do the right thing with it.
I've been an emotional wreck all week watching all unfold, following the local Charleston papers and social media outlets. I'm pretty sure I may even lose some life-long friends over my views about the flag and the monuments, but I feel like I have to say what I feel is right to them. I even decided not to travel to Charleston as planned because it's way too crazy now for me to be there, and I don't know when I'll ever have the urge to go back to see the friends that I'll have left. I know that the people of Charleston do have a lot of heart. But I also know what I know about the persistent, seemingly unconquerable racism and poverty in that town, and I've concluded for now that I can have no part of it. It's been rough.
I know the victims are resting in peace. I hope the families continue to find their own peace in each other and in the many acts of love coming their way.
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