9 Dead in Charleston, South Carolina Church Shooting and Hate Crime
cutz
Posts: 11,836
TRAGIC
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-respond-shooting-charleston-south-carolina-church/story?id=31845305
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-respond-shooting-charleston-south-carolina-church/story?id=31845305
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A terrible incident. Unbelievably horrible.
i did not read the other thread yet because it is already 4 pages...yeah, i am lazy these days.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
what does it mean that i somehow feel drawn to this board when terrible things like this happen? i am in the middle of packing up my shit and moving and i took the time to read what people have been saying. now i am sucked back in, haha.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Course I did have thirty getting in my shit.
I kid TB.
I can only imagine the feelings this thing must stir up in some people.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/remove-the-confederate-3.?mailing_id=29839&source=s.em.cr&r_by=13366957
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
can someone explain why this flag has to be removed.
Godfather.
But a war flag of treason
And though some have argued that the Civil War was about the South fighting against the North who wanted to capitalized on Southern economy, that economy was built on and would not have existed without slavery. Historians will tell us the North was not without fault in that war but the greatest, most egregious sin was the enslavement of innocent human beings and the Confederate flag symbolizes that travesty and it's time for it to be taken down- at the very least taken down from government and public buildings.
The confederate flag is historical and is part of our history. But it also represents some of the ugliness of our society.
the history of slavery is taught to every kid going to history class but only the limited facts and then the media fans the fire from there, too many Americans are so caught up in racism that they are sure there is only one kind of racism...white on black, racism is bigger and uglier than just America but people don't talk about that...instead they call it terrorism.
just my rant, I don't like racism either but I don't think it's just here or talked about or as many restrictions put in place as compared to the rest of the world.
Godfather.
take a look at the history of the swastika. The swastika was traditionally a symbol of prosperity in the hindu culture, but was completely bastardized by Hitler and co.
Do you think it's appropriate to fly a swastika flag?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
but if the flag stays or goes it wont change my life, I'm just blown away by the idea that someone can take something from someone else with little more than they find it offensive..is that what our government is used for ? just a tool to take without merrit ? so ya see it aint so much the flag to me it's the idea that a government can do this dispite other peoples vales and beliefs..American people ! what else will be taken away ?
Godfather.
Can't count how many rebel flags are teamed up with pissing on Obama stickers on back of trucks in Texas. And the older the truck the greater the chance.
There is one old truck in Tx that has a stickman though. Swimming against the current.
Here is a link the S Carolina Declaration of Secession
http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp
and pulled from this declaration
The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows:
"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.
The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.
On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.
The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy."
Further, its current adoption was only enacted in response to school integration in the 1950's as a Fuck You federal goverment.
THIS is why it must be shown only in the context of the war, and not freely flown by a government entity
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
wow ! the best post yet on this topic, I've always been a supporter of this countries history and the wars that brought about freedom so I really can't argue a ban on this flag from state buildings and documents...wow what a powerful piece of evidance( http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp) that was a bullseye Mickey.
Godfather.
I'm sure GF if you chose to where a shirt with the confederate flag on the front or back to work that might not be a great idea for one to do so. Unless you own the business you probably would not be allowed to work that day.
Some here have compared it to a swatiska flag, I'll throw in another comparison the flag below....
That flag in many different variations was a symbol of the Black Panther Party. They were from the 60's-70's and are still an organization today. They were part of the civil rights movement but we're not for the most part marching peacefully. They believed in getting those rights through militant force..."by all means necessary". To some black folks this flag or variation of was a source of pride and strength in the fight for civil rights. I'm a voice for civil rights but I would never want to see that flag flying over my state capital or any other public building. Stick it like the confederate flag on your truck, jacket, museum or underwear if you wish, just keep it from public places where someone or anyone who could be offended.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)