9 Dead in Charleston, South Carolina Church Shooting and Hate Crime

2

Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    g under p said:

    rgambs said:

    It's a symbol of hate godfather. The easy comparison is the Nazi flag. There's never been a time in the history of the world that a losing army has been allowed to fly their flag.

    about as far south i have ever(lived) been is so.cal and I don't have any stake in this civil war flag and I understand the comparisson with the nazi flag but that flag was adopeted by hitler with racist intent right from the begining (geeze that guy was evil)
    but if the flag stays or goes it wont change my life, I'm just blown away by the idea that someone can take something from someone else with little more than they find it offensive..is that what our government is used for ? just a tool to take without merrit ? so ya see it aint so much the flag to me it's the idea that a government can do this dispite other peoples vales and beliefs..American people ! what else will be taken away ?

    Godfather.

    This isn't the government taking anything from anyone. This isn't the Confederate flag being banned from people, it is just about removing it from display BY the government.
    I'm not sure if it's been pointed out already but GF the government is NOT trying to take away its citizens right to display this confederate flag. GF if you or anyone else wants to tattoo this flag to your forehead or have it emblazoned in gold on the grill of your teeth go right ahead. I believe no one wants to stop you or anyone from doing so. I have coworkers that have the flag all over their truck but let them try and wear a shirt with the flag to work, I'll send them home or have them cover it up. Some customer may just take offense to it even down here in South Florida.
    I'm sure GF if you chose to where a shirt with the confederate flag on the front or back to work that might not be a great idea for one to do so. Unless you own the business you probably would not be allowed to work that day.

    Some here have compared it to a swatiska flag, I'll throw in another comparison the flag below....
    image

    That flag in many different variations was a symbol of the Black Panther Party. They were from the 60's-70's and are still an organization today. They were part of the civil rights movement but we're not for the most part marching peacefully. They believed in getting those rights through militant force..."by all means necessary". To some black folks this flag or variation of was a source of pride and strength in the fight for civil rights. I'm a voice for civil rights but I would never want to see that flag flying over my state capital or any other public building. Stick it like the confederate flag on your truck, jacket, museum or underwear if you wish, just keep it from public places where someone or anyone who could be offended.

    Peace


    Interesting post here, G. I grew up in the bay area and was in high school and early years of college during the height of the Black Panther movement, spent a lot of time in Oakland and S.F. during that time and saw plenty of Panthers, saw Black and Brown stamp poster in black neighborhoods but I don't recall ever seeing that flag (but maybe just due to faulty memory?). The Panthers were way more into action than they were symbols. Not very "symbol minded" you might say. I also got a sense that their militancy was more geared toward protecting their own as opposed to being needlessly aggressive towards other innocent people. I lived in a high rise building that was 80% black during those years and never once was harassed or harmed. Not sure a black person in the south would have fared so well in a mostly white building in those years.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    brianlux said:

    g under p said:

    rgambs said:

    It's a symbol of hate godfather. The easy comparison is the Nazi flag. There's never been a time in the history of the world that a losing army has been allowed to fly their flag.

    about as far south i have ever(lived) been is so.cal and I don't have any stake in this civil war flag and I understand the comparisson with the nazi flag but that flag was adopeted by hitler with racist intent right from the begining (geeze that guy was evil)
    but if the flag stays or goes it wont change my life, I'm just blown away by the idea that someone can take something from someone else with little more than they find it offensive..is that what our government is used for ? just a tool to take without merrit ? so ya see it aint so much the flag to me it's the idea that a government can do this dispite other peoples vales and beliefs..American people ! what else will be taken away ?

    Godfather.

    This isn't the government taking anything from anyone. This isn't the Confederate flag being banned from people, it is just about removing it from display BY the government.
    I'm not sure if it's been pointed out already but GF the government is NOT trying to take away its citizens right to display this confederate flag. GF if you or anyone else wants to tattoo this flag to your forehead or have it emblazoned in gold on the grill of your teeth go right ahead. I believe no one wants to stop you or anyone from doing so. I have coworkers that have the flag all over their truck but let them try and wear a shirt with the flag to work, I'll send them home or have them cover it up. Some customer may just take offense to it even down here in South Florida.
    I'm sure GF if you chose to where a shirt with the confederate flag on the front or back to work that might not be a great idea for one to do so. Unless you own the business you probably would not be allowed to work that day.

    Some here have compared it to a swatiska flag, I'll throw in another comparison the flag below....
    image

    That flag in many different variations was a symbol of the Black Panther Party. They were from the 60's-70's and are still an organization today. They were part of the civil rights movement but we're not for the most part marching peacefully. They believed in getting those rights through militant force..."by all means necessary". To some black folks this flag or variation of was a source of pride and strength in the fight for civil rights. I'm a voice for civil rights but I would never want to see that flag flying over my state capital or any other public building. Stick it like the confederate flag on your truck, jacket, museum or underwear if you wish, just keep it from public places where someone or anyone who could be offended.

    Peace


    Interesting post here, G. I grew up in the bay area and was in high school and early years of college during the height of the Black Panther movement, spent a lot of time in Oakland and S.F. during that time and saw plenty of Panthers, saw Black and Brown stamp poster in black neighborhoods but I don't recall ever seeing that flag (but maybe just due to faulty memory?). The Panthers were way more into action than they were symbols. Not very "symbol minded" you might say. I also got a sense that their militancy was more geared toward protecting their own as opposed to being needlessly aggressive towards other innocent people. I lived in a high rise building that was 80% black during those years and never once was harassed or harmed. Not sure a black person in the south would have fared so well in a mostly white building in those years.

    Brian I don't know much about what went on in the west coast. However where I grew up on the east coast in Boston, these colors were used in various versions. Some with a panther on it some without. The flag colors were originated with Jamaican Marcus Gravey who in his time wanted black people to leave this country and go back to Africa. In part because at the time 1920 civil rights movement was going nowhere.

    Like said earlier they were many variations of that flag....here at former BPP leader Huey Newton's funeral in 1989 Oakland, CA this version was carried.....a star was added.

    http://www.painetworks.com/previews/hl/hl0618.html?clientid=IDABXORB&ln=en&text=

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    brianlux said:

    g under p said:

    rgambs said:

    It's a symbol of hate godfather. The easy comparison is the Nazi flag. There's never been a time in the history of the world that a losing army has been allowed to fly their flag.

    about as far south i have ever(lived) been is so.cal and I don't have any stake in this civil war flag and I understand the comparisson with the nazi flag but that flag was adopeted by hitler with racist intent right from the begining (geeze that guy was evil)
    but if the flag stays or goes it wont change my life, I'm just blown away by the idea that someone can take something from someone else with little more than they find it offensive..is that what our government is used for ? just a tool to take without merrit ? so ya see it aint so much the flag to me it's the idea that a government can do this dispite other peoples vales and beliefs..American people ! what else will be taken away ?

    Godfather.

    This isn't the government taking anything from anyone. This isn't the Confederate flag being banned from people, it is just about removing it from display BY the government.
    I'm not sure if it's been pointed out already but GF the government is NOT trying to take away its citizens right to display this confederate flag. GF if you or anyone else wants to tattoo this flag to your forehead or have it emblazoned in gold on the grill of your teeth go right ahead. I believe no one wants to stop you or anyone from doing so. I have coworkers that have the flag all over their truck but let them try and wear a shirt with the flag to work, I'll send them home or have them cover it up. Some customer may just take offense to it even down here in South Florida.
    I'm sure GF if you chose to where a shirt with the confederate flag on the front or back to work that might not be a great idea for one to do so. Unless you own the business you probably would not be allowed to work that day.

    Some here have compared it to a swatiska flag, I'll throw in another comparison the flag below....
    image

    That flag in many different variations was a symbol of the Black Panther Party. They were from the 60's-70's and are still an organization today. They were part of the civil rights movement but we're not for the most part marching peacefully. They believed in getting those rights through militant force..."by all means necessary". To some black folks this flag or variation of was a source of pride and strength in the fight for civil rights. I'm a voice for civil rights but I would never want to see that flag flying over my state capital or any other public building. Stick it like the confederate flag on your truck, jacket, museum or underwear if you wish, just keep it from public places where someone or anyone who could be offended.

    Peace


    Interesting post here, G. I grew up in the bay area and was in high school and early years of college during the height of the Black Panther movement, spent a lot of time in Oakland and S.F. during that time and saw plenty of Panthers, saw Black and Brown stamp poster in black neighborhoods but I don't recall ever seeing that flag (but maybe just due to faulty memory?). The Panthers were way more into action than they were symbols. Not very "symbol minded" you might say. I also got a sense that their militancy was more geared toward protecting their own as opposed to being needlessly aggressive towards other innocent people. I lived in a high rise building that was 80% black during those years and never once was harassed or harmed. Not sure a black person in the south would have fared so well in a mostly white building in those years.

    yes sir I get that (not taking the flag away) but I don't think I'll be getting a grill or any new tatoos and I really don't know about any peace loving black panthers now that you mention it but diidn't some bp member just talk about killing all white men and the white babies as well ?
    has it really got to the point that if someone wears a confed.flag t-shirt to work you would send them home ? would you send them home if they wear a plack panther shirt as well ?

    Godfather.

  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

    Both flags were symbols of regimes which made racism, and specifically the dogma of white supremacy, a cornerstone of their philosophies.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

    Both flags were symbols of regimes which made racism, and specifically the dogma of white supremacy, a cornerstone of their philosophies.
    one was created as such the other was not, by the way has anybody ever thought about one of things in common most mass killings have ? I just read this, most of the people doing these killings have had or were using a drug for psyc or some kind of mental disorder..just a thought.

    Godfather.

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

    Both flags were symbols of regimes which made racism, and specifically the dogma of white supremacy, a cornerstone of their philosophies.
    one was created as such the other was not, by the way has anybody ever thought about one of things in common most mass killings have ? I just read this, most of the people doing these killings have had or were using a drug for psyc or some kind of mental disorder..just a thought.

    Godfather.

    How do you figure? The Nazi flag wasn't created to convey Arian supremacy, it was created as the flag of a nation Which believed fiercely in racism.
    Same exact scenario for the Confederate flags.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196

    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

    Well, you said that business owner does NOT want to remove the flag from HIS flag pole. Well he has every right to do so that's the beauty of living in these United States. However, if customers start to not purchase into his business he may start to rethink have the flag fly over his business. Then again his customers may all feel comfortable with the flag there so be it.

    As for the media's take...the Nazi and Confederate flags whether you like it or not in their own way ARE BOTH symbols of racism and hate. The media is going to do what it does which is if people are listening, talking or watching this story....the media will be happy being fed.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Find it comforting to know that big business feels there aren't enough people that will boycott them to affect their decision to stop selling confederate merchandise and telling those that there is indeed a problem being racist. This is a big deal in our country. Hope little shit church shooting suspect gets news of backlash.

    Disclaimer: Feel any individual has right to fly this and any flag. Also don't feel all that relate to the flag are racists.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Earlier, I made comments that seem to defend the Black Panthers. Doing a little checking this morning, I find we may be talking about two different groups: the original sixties west coast BP's and the New Black Panther Movement. Here's a description from the Southern Poverty Law Center's web site (SPL tracks ALL hate groups and works toward the goal of ending hatred):

    "The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla. The group portrays itself as a militant, modern-day expression of the black power movement (it frequently engages in armed protests of alleged police brutality and the like), but principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol."
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    brianlux said:

    Earlier, I made comments that seem to defend the Black Panthers. Doing a little checking this morning, I find we may be talking about two different groups: the original sixties west coast BP's and the New Black Panther Movement. Here's a description from the Southern Poverty Law Center's web site (SPL tracks ALL hate groups and works toward the goal of ending hatred):

    "The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla. The group portrays itself as a militant, modern-day expression of the black power movement (it frequently engages in armed protests of alleged police brutality and the like), but principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol."

    That is correct Brian, the NBPP did hijack the original here's an image of their flag and you may see this....

    image

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    rgambs said:

    g under p said:

    You damn right I would a black person, white, green or orange home if they wore a shirt with any symbolism of the Black Panthers. Now keep in mind any variation of the BPs is not as easily recognizable as any confederate dress wear. In my work environment business as long there's a chance that confederate flag worn by my employee it could offend a customer it has to be changed. Which is similar to the confederate flag being removed from government buildings to a place where it can be seen (museum) if one chooses to go there and see it.

    Many people don't know much about the BPs especially here in South Florida but I do so therefore they would have change the dress wear or go home.

    Peace

    the local government in those areas have asked some local business owners to remove thier confederate flages from thier business but one story I've read stated that the owner refuses to give in to this whole thing and will not remove it from his flag pole, it seems this deal with the confederate flag is causing more unrest than good, it's getting more media coverage than the killing that sparked this flag hoopla...so there ya have it white on black killing and now the government wants to remove confederate flags, it's just an excuse to stir the pot and the only people winning are the media mogles not to mention all the hate it is creating..I mean already it's been compared to the Nazi flag ! really ? I don't believe the two flags are as closely tied together as some clame, but we have to feed the media machine right ?

    Godfather.

    Both flags were symbols of regimes which made racism, and specifically the dogma of white supremacy, a cornerstone of their philosophies.
    one was created as such the other was not, by the way has anybody ever thought about one of things in common most mass killings have ? I just read this, most of the people doing these killings have had or were using a drug for psyc or some kind of mental disorder..just a thought.

    Godfather.

    How do you figure? The Nazi flag wasn't created to convey Arian supremacy, it was created as the flag of a nation Which believed fiercely in racism.
    Same exact scenario for the Confederate flags.
    sounds good to me.

    Godfather.

  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    but still...how can anybody compare what hitler did to what happened in the south ? and if the U.S didn't join the war effort who knows what would have happened.

    Godfather.
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196

    but still...how can anybody compare what hitler did to what happened in the south ? and if the U.S didn't join the war effort who knows what would have happened.

    Godfather.

    GF please tell that question to the PEOPLE affected by the symbolism of BOTH those flags and hear what they will tell you. I pretty sure what they may say what transcended down to those affected by the flags are one.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    g under p said:

    brianlux said:

    Earlier, I made comments that seem to defend the Black Panthers. Doing a little checking this morning, I find we may be talking about two different groups: the original sixties west coast BP's and the New Black Panther Movement. Here's a description from the Southern Poverty Law Center's web site (SPL tracks ALL hate groups and works toward the goal of ending hatred):

    "The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla. The group portrays itself as a militant, modern-day expression of the black power movement (it frequently engages in armed protests of alleged police brutality and the like), but principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol."

    That is correct Brian, the NBPP did hijack the original here's an image of their flag and you may see this....

    image

    Peace
    Bummer. Kind of what happened to Earth First!.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    g under p said:

    but still...how can anybody compare what hitler did to what happened in the south ? and if the U.S didn't join the war effort who knows what would have happened.

    Godfather.

    GF please tell that question to the PEOPLE affected by the symbolism of BOTH those flags and hear what they will tell you. I pretty sure what they may say what transcended down to those affected by the flags are one.

    Peace
    both were horrific but on a scale of body count and in the US our country was divided on the slavery issue, not saying on a personal level good or bad just saying hitler killed thousands at a time and had the backing of a whole country for the most part.

    Godfather

  • usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

    no...instead they'll blame it on a flag.......and give all the media attention to that, God forbid anybody defend them selfs, the media and some people almost seem to be good with the sacrifice rather than the death of a bud guy in self defence.

    Godfather.

  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524

    State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

    "Waited their turn"?

    Also, even if a law had been in place allowing people to legally carry, doesn't mean they would have chosen to do so. It's a moot point, no?

    The flag is its own issue and for me, separate from the horror that occurred last week. That kid's fuck-upped-ness had little if anything to do with any flag but moreso with hate and ignorance.
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661

    State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

    Yea that guy has so e serious issues to deal with in his home life...
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    edited June 2015
    hedonist said:

    State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

    "Waited their turn"?

    Also, even if a law had been in place allowing people to legally carry, doesn't mean they would have chosen to do so. It's a moot point, no?

    The flag is its own issue and for me, separate from the horror that occurred last week. That kid's fuck-upped-ness had little if anything to do with any flag but moreso with hate and ignorance.
    Let's make no mistake many call this person Roof a "kid" he ain't no kid. He's young yes, immature yes but a man none the less.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/18/call-the-charleston-church-shooting-what-it-is-terrorism/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b

    The above article speaks on how some are comfortable in calling a kid while others like myself won't.....
    In public discussions, black children often morph into potentially menacing adults after they’ve been victimized, while white mass shooters are portrayed as children, even if they’re well into their 20s. Media reports and police statements repeatedly referred to Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy shot by police in Cleveland while playing with a toy gun last year, as a “young man.” But James Holmes, who was 25 when he shot dozens at an Aurora, Colo., movie theater, was frequently defined by his youth in media profiles, which described him as “a normal kid,” a “typical American kid” and “a smart kid.”


    Roof is getting the same treatment. In an interview with CNN on Thursday, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) insisted that the 21-year-old is just “one of these whacked-out kids.” Since Roof’s arrest on nine counts of murder, the Wall Street Journal and other major news outlets have called him “a loner” in headlines.
    Just a small thing to be noted. Oh "waited their turn" comment was not a very bright thing for that Rep. To say what was he thinking?

    Peace


    Post edited by g under p on
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    hedonist said:

    Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.

    when..if if he gets to prison believe me he'll be a dumb kid crying for his mommy and when of he gets older 50's or so he'll probably wonder that stupid kid was thinking....but then again he could be a racist puke his whole life, legally he's a man but under that age requierment of manhood he's just a stupid kid (no that does not excuse his actions)
    does anybody know if he was or had been on any medications ?

    Godfather.

  • markymark550markymark550 Posts: 5,154

    hedonist said:

    Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.

    when..if if he gets to prison believe me he'll be a dumb kid crying for his mommy and when of he gets older 50's or so he'll probably wonder that stupid kid was thinking....but then again he could be a racist puke his whole life, legally he's a man but under that age requierment of manhood he's just a stupid kid (no that does not excuse his actions)
    does anybody know if he was or had been on any medications ?

    Godfather.

    He was arrested for illegal possession of suboxone. Haven't read anything about him being on any prescribed medications.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    hedonist said:

    Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.

    when..if if he gets to prison believe me he'll be a dumb kid crying for his mommy and when of he gets older 50's or so he'll probably wonder that stupid kid was thinking....but then again he could be a racist puke his whole life, legally he's a man but under that age requierment of manhood he's just a stupid kid (no that does not excuse his actions)
    does anybody know if he was or had been on any medications ?

    Godfather.

    He was arrested for illegal possession of suboxone. Haven't read anything about him being on any prescribed medications.
    thanks !
    drugs prescribed or not seem to be a common denominator most in murders, either the killer had a drug problem of some sort or in many cases the fight started over drugs, so we got a young man who is a racist (according to the media) and uses drugs.....bad combanation.

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    http://www.drugs.com/suboxone.html

    wow ! nasty stuff

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Amazon reported confederate flags sales jumped 200% ...so the trusty interweb says anyway.

    Godfather.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954

    Amazon reported confederate flags sales jumped 200% ...so the trusty interweb says anyway.

    Godfather.

    I thought Amazon pulled all confederate flag merchandise.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    hedonist said:

    Maybe it's due to my "older" perspective or that bowl haircut of his, but you're right, g...21 isn't a kid.

    when..if if he gets to prison believe me he'll be a dumb kid crying for his mommy and when of he gets older 50's or so he'll probably wonder that stupid kid was thinking....but then again he could be a racist puke his whole life, legally he's a man but under that age requierment of manhood he's just a stupid kid (no that does not excuse his actions)
    does anybody know if he was or had been on any medications ?

    Godfather.

    He was arrested for illegal possession of suboxone. Haven't read anything about him being on any prescribed medications.
    thanks !
    drugs prescribed or not seem to be a common denominator most in murders, either the killer had a drug problem of some sort or in many cases the fight started over drugs, so we got a young man who is a racist (according to the media) and uses drugs.....bad combanation.

    Godfather.
    GF - you posted earlier about medications, and again in the post above. Early on in the other thread on this topic a couple of people also wondered if he was on medication, and one poster seemed to be implying that medication could have caused the violence. I posted a reply there and will copy it here also in case you are interested but don't want to scroll back looking for it. (Sorry for quoting myself, which seems weird).

    At this point we don't seem to have any real information about whether this guy had a mental illness or not. We do, however, have some information about his own stated aims, which were to kill black people because he thought they were taking over the country, and the beliefs implied by his identification with white supremacist groups. At one point in American history, his beliefs were commonplace; does that mean that everyone who held those views was mentally ill? A sizable chunk of the population (although thankfully diminishing) still believes it - are they all mentally ill? Were all those Germans who followed Hitler mentally ill? Were the Hutus who participated in the Rwandan genocide mentally ill?

    I'll say again what I've said it before on AMT and AET - I continue to be disturbed by the way we casually blame mental illness for these sorts of crimes of hate and violence. The evidence is clear that the vast majority of violence is perpetrated by people without mental illness. Racism and hate is not a mental illness. Alcohol and drug use is far more highly correlated to violence than mental illness, and there is some initial information that this guy used at least some sorts of drugs. And yet every time some guy engages in a mass murder or spree killing we automatically talk about "mental illness". Most of these guys are not really mentally ill; they may have really disturbed personality development and they may have serious anger issues, but that's not the same as mental illness. Even the fact that they may have seen a psychiatrist or psychologist before doesn't necessarily imply the existence of a mental illness, since people either seek out (or are forced to seek out) mental health assessment and treatment for all sorts of reasons that can include pressure from family, employer or even the legal system, a desire to get certain medications prescribed, or even a genuine desire to change things in their lives (these sorts of people are rarely happy, although they tend to misplace the blame for that).


    So GF you are absolutely correct that the evidence shows that drugs (and alcohol) and violence often go together, more so than mental illness and violence.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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