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Meanwhile back in Israel

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,558
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    You posted an article that compared deaths over a decade.  I don't defend Israel but Palestine isn't close to being blameless. 
    Look at last night and today.
    Israel's response is now disproportionate as well,  after Palestine escalated.  And now Jews are being threatened and intimidated in Europe and North America. 
    When did Palestine escalate? What’s your marker?

    rockets that are being handled by iron dome with high effectiveness.
    Yes they are but that doesn't make it okay to launch 500 of them into heavily populated areas.  The Palestinian intent is for some of them to strike and cause civilian casualty. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,558
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,111
    This is a problem that will never go away and goes as far back as possible with each side stating that the other did this or that way back when and feel justified.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    edited May 17
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?



    how do the palestinian people get relief? for ALL OF IT.
    Post edited by Kat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    arent we supposed to be all in for self-determination?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
     

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,540
    it's a strange phenomenon....longtime conservative members seem to almost always eventually go insane and get themselves banned. 

    10C is healing. 
    Who got banned @HughFreakingDillon
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    mickeyrat said:
     

    so let me pose this.......I understand Israel's military capabilities far out weigh Palestine's, however (and I say this with the belief that Israel is guilty of genocide), if they are attacked, just because they can defend the attack, what should they do? just have a big belly laugh and put up a banner saying "nice try!"?

    if the US were attacked by North Korea via missile, and the US successfully defended itself, would you not expect the US to obliterate NK in return for the attempt?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    mickeyrat said:
     

    so let me pose this.......I understand Israel's military capabilities far out weigh Palestine's, however (and I say this with the belief that Israel is guilty of genocide), if they are attacked, just because they can defend the attack, what should they do? just have a big belly laugh and put up a banner saying "nice try!"?

    if the US were attacked by North Korea via missile, and the US successfully defended itself, would you not expect the US to obliterate NK in return for the attempt?

    daily provocations, "poking the caged, hungry lion"

    this "status quo" is untenable, unsustainable and its immoral.

    israel is the bully victim. its horseshit. they are just the fucking bully. and my tax dollars help them.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    edited May 17
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?



    how do the palestinian people get relief? for ALL OF IT.

    Post edited by Kat on
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 23,670
    edited May 17
    People in here both siding....

    Well, John Oliver has a response to that
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 23,670
    edited May 17
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 23,670
    edited May 17
    Everyone should also see if your country is on this list. If it is not. Consider moving to one of these countries or vote for people who would have it on their agenda to have your country be less embarrassing:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 23,670
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,487

    The Onion’ Calls On Israel To Bomb Our Offices In Case Any Hamas Agents Hiding Out There




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    edited May 18
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?



    how do the palestinian people get relief? for ALL OF IT.

    really kat ? all he said was "answer the (effing) question". we're censoring swear words now?
    Post edited by Kat on
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    edited May 18
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?



    how do the palestinian people get relief? for ALL OF IT.

    really kat ? all he said was "answer the (effing) question". we're censoring swear words now?

    I've been warned a couple times related to language.  guessing she's dialing down the temprature for my benefit.

    she let the far more important sentence stand. because that IS the fundamental question that desperately needs answered and implemented.
    Post edited by Kat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JT167846JT167846 Posts: 438
    Everyone should also see if your country is on this list. If it is not. Consider moving to one of these countries or vote for people who would have it on their agenda to have your country be less embarrassing:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
    Doesn't work like that. Here either of the biggest parties in NZ have made it official and the others haven't gotten enough votes to make a difference if that was a principal subject to run on. The ability to up sticks and move countries isn't possible for a lot of people even if they are vehemently opposed to policies their governments make. What I will say is that is unusual for NZ to have not recognised Palestine given it was a part of the UN resolution condemning the settlements. We actually cut diplomatic ties with Israel when we caught three Mossad agents with fraudulently obtained NZ passports. Obviously there are multiple instances of Israel potentially violating the sovereignty of another country (having said that many would turn a Machiavellian blind eye to the Argentina violation given it resulted in the capture of Adolf Eichmann) and we are concerning ourselves with the violation of Palestinian sovereignty here, but maybe NZ and others were more naive than malicious in that they may have waiting for borders to be finalised. Unfortunately the definition of what is Israel and what is Palestine is the very crux of the conflict as they seem to be ever changing, and not in favour of the Palestinians. Just speculation here-am ignorant of a bit of the NZ policy having spent 13 years overseas but from what I recall NZ officially supports the two state solution amid a negotiated settlement. We also do have diplomatic relations so the map shown is a bit like a bikini. Reveals a lot but not the full picture. 
    Stars are suns to other people.

    Wellington 1998
    London 2007
    Brisbane 2009
    Stockholm 2012
    Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014
    EV Dublin 2017
    Milan 2018
    Padova 2018
    Boston 2 2018
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
     
    Israel, Hamas trade fire in Gaza; Palestinians go on strike
    By FARES AKRAM and JOSEPH KRAUSS
    3 mins ago

    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israel carried out a wave of airstrikes on what it said were militant targets in Gaza, leveling a six-story building, and militants fired dozens of rockets into Israel on Tuesday. Palestinians across the region observed a general strike as the war, now in its second week, showed no signs of abating.

    The strikes toppled a building that housed libraries and educational centers belonging to the Islamic University, leaving behind a massive mound of rebar and concrete slabs. Desks, office chairs, books and computer wires could be seen in the debris. Residents sifted through the rubble, searching for their belongings.

    Israel warned the building's residents ahead of time, sending them fleeing into the predawn darkness, and there were no reports of casualties.

    “The whole street started running, then destruction, an earthquake,” said Jamal Herzallah, a resident of the area. “This whole area was shaking.”

    Heavy fighting broke out May 10 when Gaza's militant Hamas rulers fired long-range rockets toward Jerusalem in support of Palestinian protests there against Israel’s heavy-handed policing of the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, a flashpoint site sacred to Jews and Muslims, and the threatened eviction of dozens of Palestinian families by Jewish settlers.

    At least 212 Palestinians have been killed in heavy airstrikes since, including 61 children and 36 women, with more than 1,400 people wounded, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, which does not break the numbers down into fighters and civilians. Ten people in Israel, including a 5-year-old boy and a soldier, have been killed in the ongoing rocket attacks launched from civilian areas in Gaza toward civilian areas in Israel.

    Palestinians in Israel, Jerusalem and the occupied West Bank observed a general strike on Tuesday to protest the Gaza war and other Israeli policies that many activists and some rights groups say constitute an overarching system of apartheid that denies Palestinians the rights afforded to Jews. Israel rejects that characterization, saying its citizens have equal rights. It blames the war on Hamas, the Islamic militant group that controls Gaza, and accuses it of inciting violence across the region.

    The strike was called by leaders of the Palestinian community inside Israel, which makes up 20% of the country's population, and was embraced by the internationally-backed Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank, where ministries and schools were closed. Most businesses appeared to be observing the strike, and protests were expected.

    Muhammad Barakeh, one of the organizers of the strike, said Palestinians are expressing a “collective position” against Israel's “aggression” in Gaza and Jerusalem, as well as the “brutal repression” by police inside Israel.

    Last week Israel saw an outbreak of violence, with groups of Jewish and Palestinian citizens fighting in the streets and torching vehicles and buildings. In both Israel and the West Bank, Palestinian protesters have clashed with Israeli forces.

    The Israeli military said Tuesday it fired at 65 militant targets, including rocket launchers, a group of fighters and the homes of Hamas commanders that the army said were being used for military purposes. It said more than 60 fighter jets took part in the operation.

    The military said it also shot down a drone “approaching the Israeli border” in the northeast, far from the Gaza fighting. It did not say where the unmanned aircraft originated, but it’s possible the drone came from Syria.

    The military said Palestinian militants fired 90 rockets, 20 of which fell short into Gaza. Israel says its missile defenses have intercepted about 90% of the rockets.

    Israel's strikes have brought down several buildings and caused widespread damage in the narrow coastal territory, which is home to more than 2 million Palestinians and has been under an Israeli-Egyptian blockade since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces in 2007.

    The attacks have damaged at least 18 hospitals and clinics and entirely destroyed one health facility, the World Health Organization said in a new report. Nearly half of all essential drugs in the territory have run out.

    It said the bombing of key roads, including those leading to the main Shifa Hospital, has hindered the movement of ambulances and supply vehicles. Over 41,000 displaced Palestinians have sought refuge in U.N. schools in Gaza, which was already struggling to cope with a coronavirus outbreak. Gaza is also running low on fuel for its electricity supply and water.

    Israel has vowed to press on with its operations, and the United States signaled it would not pressure the two sides for a cease-fire even as President Joe Biden said he supported one.

    “We will continue to operate as long as necessary in order to return calm and security to all Israeli citizens,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said after meeting with top security officials on Monday .

    The Biden administration has declined so far to publicly criticize Israel’s part in the fighting or send a top-level envoy to the region. On Monday, the United States again blocked a proposed U.N. Security Council statement calling for an end to “the crisis related to Gaza” and the protection of civilians, especially children.

    Since the fighting began, the Israeli military has launched hundreds of airstrikes it says are targeting Hamas’ militant infrastructure. Palestinian militants in Gaza have fired more than 3,400 rockets into Israel.

    Hamas and Islamic Jihad say at least 20 of their fighters have been killed, while Israel says the number is at least 160 and has released the names of and photos of more than two dozen militant commanders it says were “eliminated.”

    Israel’s airstrikes have leveled a number of Gaza City’s tallest buildings, which Israel alleges contained Hamas military infrastructure. Among them was the building housing The Associated Press Gaza office and those of other media outlets.

    Netanyahu alleged that Hamas military intelligence was operating inside the building and said any evidence would be shared through intelligence channels. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he hasn’t yet seen any evidence supporting that.

    AP President Gary Pruitt reiterated the organization's call for an independent investigation into the attack.

    “As we have said, we have no indication of a Hamas presence in the building, nor were we warned of any such possible presence before the airstrike,” he said in a statement. “This is something we check as best we can. We do not know what the Israeli evidence shows, and we want to know.”

    ___

    Krauss reported from Jerusalem. Associated Press writer Isabel DeBre in Dubai, United Arab Emirates contributed o this report.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 4,505
    edited May 18
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    illegal evictions on occupied land and police interference(to put it mildly) during important religious functions.


    so tell me,  just what is the acceptable means of protesting this? hmm?

    rockets seem to be an effective(not right) means of getting due attention over the continued drip drip drip of apartheid.....
    Well if it's effective but morally wrong,  then isn't that the same argument israel could use?



    how do the palestinian people get relief? for ALL OF IT.

    really kat ? all he said was "answer the (effing) question". we're censoring swear words now?

    I've been warned a couple times related to language.  guessing she's dialing down the temprature for my benefit.

    she let the far more important sentence stand. because that IS the fundamental question that desperately needs answered and implemented.
    It's not the language; it's the tone. Things can easily become heated and this discussion is about conflicts in the Middle East. That's definitely not a topic that fosters peaceful feelings in some. I thank you for your cooperation with this goal and I appreciate everyone following this guidance. I don't enjoy banning members from the forums so be chill with each other, ok? Thanks again.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    ok, be honest....who else never knew the Netanyahu lived in Philly during his high school years?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,062
    ok, be honest....who else never knew the Netanyahu lived in Philly during his high school years?
    He used to be a talking head, always  on CNN about 20 years ago. Seemed he spent alot of time in the states, at least once in this lifetime. 
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,062
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
     

    so let me pose this.......I understand Israel's military capabilities far out weigh Palestine's, however (and I say this with the belief that Israel is guilty of genocide), if they are attacked, just because they can defend the attack, what should they do? just have a big belly laugh and put up a banner saying "nice try!"?

    if the US were attacked by North Korea via missile, and the US successfully defended itself, would you not expect the US to obliterate NK in return for the attempt?

    daily provocations, "poking the caged, hungry lion"

    this "status quo" is untenable, unsustainable and its immoral.

    israel is the bully victim. its horseshit. they are just the fucking bully. and my tax dollars help them.

    Hamas has been acting like a bully in trying to seize E Jerusalem.  Your taxes dollars are probably preventing a far deadlier ground war.

    You used the "occupy" word the other day. How does one occupy land that they've lived on continuously 4000 years, thousands of years before Muhammad made his pilgrimage there (to what we now call the west bank)?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,484
    I'd like to know how far back we go when it comes to who gets to claim the land. 

    if it's anything earlier than 1492, I think Canada and the US are going to have some 'splainin' ta do, Lucy. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • JT167846JT167846 Posts: 438
    If I'm not mistaken old mate is referring to occupation with regard to the 67 borders/two state solution. If I am and it's about Herzl, the Balfour declaration and Jewish arrivals post 1917 then you're getting into right to exist/Zionist territory. Which is a whole other can of worms in terms of debate.
    Stars are suns to other people.

    Wellington 1998
    London 2007
    Brisbane 2009
    Stockholm 2012
    Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014
    EV Dublin 2017
    Milan 2018
    Padova 2018
    Boston 2 2018
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 4,062
    I'd like to know how far back we go when it comes to who gets to claim the land. 

    if it's anything earlier than 1492, I think Canada and the US are going to have some 'splainin' ta do, Lucy. 

    people throw around words like occupy, and are not fully aware of the history of the West Bank.

    Hamas wants to  throw the Israelis out of West Bank and E Jerusalem, which was once part of the Kingdom of Israel, but the Israelis are not throwing out the Palestinians. That’s a pretty huge double standard for people using the word occupy.

    Israel left Gaza 15 years ago and that turned out to be an absolute disaster. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,321
    when your military patrols land not within your borders and serves as law enforcement, thats occupation.

    thowing around that word.  ha. its been used and correctly since 1967
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JT167846JT167846 Posts: 438
    I'd like to know how far back we go when it comes to who gets to claim the land. 

    if it's anything earlier than 1492, I think Canada and the US are going to have some 'splainin' ta do, Lucy. 

    people throw around words like occupy, and are not fully aware of the history of the West Bank.

    Hamas wants to  throw the Israelis out of West Bank and E Jerusalem, which was once part of the Kingdom of Israel, but the Israelis are not throwing out the Palestinians. That’s a pretty huge double standard for people using the word occupy.

    Israel left Gaza 15 years ago and that turned out to be an absolute disaster. 
    TBH Hamas wants to throw the Israelis out of existence. When an organisation has genocide as part of its original charter it's hard to take them seriously and were I Israel I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. It's also frustrating that they were voted into "power" in Gaza. But Hamas and the other terrorists aren't Palestine. Think the double standard is apt if you're referring to Hamas, not Palestine. But the hardliners Netanyahu panders to should be differentiated from Israel also. Everyone knows the two state solution is flawed, especially if you know the history of kingdoms of Judea and Samaria, and obviously the question of how far back ownership is valid rears its head. There may be (though hardly likely I concede I'm not that naive) a consensus that the two state solution is taken off the table in future but to do it unilaterally with all its implications no matter how gradual is obviously one of the things that has the international community most up in arms.

    No coincidence Israel has the most effective vaccination plan at present. That's a form of defence in itself.

    Stars are suns to other people.

    Wellington 1998
    London 2007
    Brisbane 2009
    Stockholm 2012
    Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014
    EV Dublin 2017
    Milan 2018
    Padova 2018
    Boston 2 2018
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 23,670
    Hamas wants to  throw the Israelis out of West Bank and E Jerusalem, which was once part of the Kingdom of Israel, but the Israelis are not throwing out the Palestinians. That’s a pretty huge double standard for people using the word occupy.
    And when was this "Kingdom of Israel"?


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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