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Iran Deal, the reset.....

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Comments

  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,915
    BS I'm surprised your not spewing crap about Obama opening relations with Cuba unless that's next on your calendar ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    Ironic you and fox do exact same thing.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,491
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    Yes, BS, it does exist... on all fronts.

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS I'm surprised your not spewing crap about Obama opening relations with Cuba unless that's next on your calendar ...

    I think engaging Cuba now makes sense
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    BS I'm surprised your not spewing crap about Obama opening relations with Cuba unless that's next on your calendar ...

    They're NOT Muslim, why bomb them?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    BS I'm surprised your not spewing crap about Obama opening relations with Cuba unless that's next on your calendar ...

    I think engaging Cuba now makes sense
    I rest my case.
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    Agree 100%.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    I think what BS is trying to get across (correct me if I'm wrong BS) is no matter how much we try to broker for peace and move toward a world where dialogue rules and Bombs grow dust,and that is all of our goals,that there is still countries and dictators who would take a chance or a shot at destroying us.
    It is not all Fox News bullshit.
    There are threats out there that are real and tangible and verified.and as a country we have to do our due diligence to protect against such rogue actors.North Korea is a great example of a country that if it really could would love to cause us harm.Can we work for peace and pump up the military chest thumping at the same time? That's where it gets murky.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    And on the Cuba front.Obviously I live in area known to have a large Cuban population.I was talking to our lovely Bartender last night who is Cuban,and she was telling us her family sees lots of doors soon to open.Many buisness opportunities may present themselves.I think it' time also and the food and tourism areas will open up first I think.They could use some new vehicles and infrastructure as well.The place looks like a slice of the US Midwest circa 1958-64
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,382
    edited April 2015
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    Death to Iran is the wish of many Conservatives.

    "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" - John McCain. That was Hilarious.
    Post edited by Smellyman on
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited April 2015
    rr165892 said:

    I think what BS is trying to get across (correct me if I'm wrong BS) is no matter how much we try to broker for peace and move toward a world where dialogue rules and Bombs grow dust,and that is all of our goals,that there is still countries and dictators who would take a chance or a shot at destroying us.
    It is not all Fox News bullshit.
    There are threats out there that are real and tangible and verified.and as a country we have to do our due diligence to protect against such rogue actors.North Korea is a great example of a country that if it really could would love to cause us harm.Can we work for peace and pump up the military chest thumping at the same time? That's where it gets murky.

    Best way to solve this issue is to integrate our societies, both culturally and economically. And add a littlle transparency.

    Not coincidental that the god people there don't want it. Control. AND our God people doing exact same thing here.

    Hell if Dubya was in power and got decent deal all would be in line trumping his wisdom........ah ah oh wait.......never mind. So much wrong with that last statement please disregard.
    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,915
    Smellyman said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    Death to Iran is the wish of many Conservatives.

    "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" - John McCain. That was Hilarious.
    True that if he had gotten elected Iran would of already felt the wrath of our mighty army's stomping on their door steps for that matter Romney too !!!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,412
    edited April 2015
    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    I couldn't have said it better myself if I tried (and I have).

    It's unfortunate, because to be empathetic has become synonymous with being naive. That's how little faith we collectively have in each other at this point, and it's going to take a massive, widespread pivot in mentality to bring about tangible change in our human-human relationships.

    If we as North Americans truly believe in the power of democracy - power of the people - we need to recognize the self-serving bias introduced by our leadership, and reclaim that power to bring change. We need to think of "everyone" as the group we make a priority - and not ourselves as individuals. This means we need to enact this movement in North America, it also means the Iranian people need to speak up for this. The Israelis need to speak up for this. The Palestinians need to speak up for this. No one can be exempt from the movement of redefining who we give a shit about, regardless of status (oppressor, oppressed, wealthy, poor, powerful, powerless). It must be comprehensive.

    In addition, ludicrous as this sounds, this movement can't be limited to humans, and it can't be limited to earth. We can't handle interracial or inter-regional relationships - and we certainly haven't mastered inter-species relationships. If foreign beings (i.e. of other planets) become an issue - you'd better believe this is going to go from bad to worse if we can't master empathy.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,915
    benjs said:

    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    I couldn't have said it better myself if I tried (and I have).

    It's unfortunate, because to be empathetic has become synonymous with being naive. That's how little faith we collectively have in each other at this point, and it's going to take a massive, widespread pivot in mentality to bring about tangible change in our human-human relationships.

    If we as North Americans truly believe in the power of democracy - power of the people - we need to recognize the self-serving bias introduced by our leadership, and reclaim that power to bring change. We need to think of "everyone" as the group we make a priority - and not ourselves as individuals. This means we need to enact this movement in North America, it also means the Iranian people need to speak up for this. The Israelis need to speak up for this. The Palestinians need to speak up for this. No one can be exempt from the movement of redefining who we give a shit about, regardless of status (oppressor, oppressed, wealthy, poor, powerful, powerless). It must be comprehensive.

    In addition, ludicrous as this sounds, this movement can't be limited to humans, and it can't be limited to earth. We can't handle interracial or inter-regional relationships - and we certainly haven't mastered inter-species relationships. If foreign beings (i.e. of other planets) become an issue - you'd better believe this is going to go from bad to worse if we can't master empathy.
    It sounds to me like it would take massive movements/protests to really get that point across , unfortunately their is a large % of populace here in this country that is totally arrogant they lack compassion for man kind ...Its the mentality of my way or the highway ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    rr165892 said:

    I think what BS is trying to get across (correct me if I'm wrong BS) is no matter how much we try to broker for peace and move toward a world where dialogue rules and Bombs grow dust,and that is all of our goals,that there is still countries and dictators who would take a chance or a shot at destroying us.
    It is not all Fox News bullshit.
    There are threats out there that are real and tangible and verified.and as a country we have to do our due diligence to protect against such rogue actors.North Korea is a great example of a country that if it really could would love to cause us harm.Can we work for peace and pump up the military chest thumping at the same time? That's where it gets murky.

    Exactly.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    This sounds nice but not everyone wants to find common ground with us. Pointing this out is not to "fuel fear and hatred". I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable.
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    edited April 2015

    benjs said:

    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    I couldn't have said it better myself if I tried (and I have).

    It's unfortunate, because to be empathetic has become synonymous with being naive. That's how little faith we collectively have in each other at this point, and it's going to take a massive, widespread pivot in mentality to bring about tangible change in our human-human relationships.

    If we as North Americans truly believe in the power of democracy - power of the people - we need to recognize the self-serving bias introduced by our leadership, and reclaim that power to bring change. We need to think of "everyone" as the group we make a priority - and not ourselves as individuals. This means we need to enact this movement in North America, it also means the Iranian people need to speak up for this. The Israelis need to speak up for this. The Palestinians need to speak up for this. No one can be exempt from the movement of redefining who we give a shit about, regardless of status (oppressor, oppressed, wealthy, poor, powerful, powerless). It must be comprehensive.

    In addition, ludicrous as this sounds, this movement can't be limited to humans, and it can't be limited to earth. We can't handle interracial or inter-regional relationships - and we certainly haven't mastered inter-species relationships. If foreign beings (i.e. of other planets) become an issue - you'd better believe this is going to go from bad to worse if we can't master empathy.
    It sounds to me like it would take massive movements/protests to really get that point across , unfortunately their is a large % of populace here in this country that is totally arrogant they lack compassion for man kind ...Its the mentality of my way or the highway ....
    And that is exactly the whole problem. In Western societies, not only in North America, but Europe as well.... we all became a bunch of egoistic bullies. We stopped listening to one another. The ones that scream the loudest, get the most attention.... No matter if its an substantiated point he or she is making or not. We are all just a bunch off self-centered bastards... We just want to have more, more and more, no matter the price some others have to pay for it. Changing this menthality sure won´t be easy, but I think will be necessary to save the environment and humanity. Maybe at the moment we can live the life's we wanna live, but look at the costs... On my own I can´t do much to change it accept speak out over and over again, until people start listening, and start caring for one another and the world once again. Call me an idealist, sure I am, but without ideals, what makes life worth living for?

    At least this is my point of view, do with it what you wanna do...
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,412
    Aafke said:

    benjs said:

    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    I couldn't have said it better myself if I tried (and I have).

    It's unfortunate, because to be empathetic has become synonymous with being naive. That's how little faith we collectively have in each other at this point, and it's going to take a massive, widespread pivot in mentality to bring about tangible change in our human-human relationships.

    If we as North Americans truly believe in the power of democracy - power of the people - we need to recognize the self-serving bias introduced by our leadership, and reclaim that power to bring change. We need to think of "everyone" as the group we make a priority - and not ourselves as individuals. This means we need to enact this movement in North America, it also means the Iranian people need to speak up for this. The Israelis need to speak up for this. The Palestinians need to speak up for this. No one can be exempt from the movement of redefining who we give a shit about, regardless of status (oppressor, oppressed, wealthy, poor, powerful, powerless). It must be comprehensive.

    In addition, ludicrous as this sounds, this movement can't be limited to humans, and it can't be limited to earth. We can't handle interracial or inter-regional relationships - and we certainly haven't mastered inter-species relationships. If foreign beings (i.e. of other planets) become an issue - you'd better believe this is going to go from bad to worse if we can't master empathy.
    It sounds to me like it would take massive movements/protests to really get that point across , unfortunately their is a large % of populace here in this country that is totally arrogant they lack compassion for man kind ...Its the mentality of my way or the highway ....
    And that is exactly the whole problem. In Western societies, not only in North America, but Europe as well.... we all became a bunch of egoistic bullies. We stopped listening to one another. The ones that scream the loudest, get the most attention.... No matter if its an substantiated point he or she is making or not. We are all just a bunch off self-centered bastards... We just want to have more, more and more, no matter the price some others have to pay for it. Changing this menthality sure won´t be easy, but I think will be necessary to save the environment and humanity. Maybe at the moment we can live the life's we wanna live, but look at the costs... On my own I can´t do much to change it accept speak out over and over again, until people start listening, and start caring for one another and the world once again. Call me an idealist, sure I am, but without ideals, what makes life worth living for?

    At least this is my point of view, do with it what you wanna do...
    Once again, couldn't agree more :)

    I'm all for idealism, and I'm left scratching my head when I speak to people with dissent for idealism. Seems to me those are the folks who have succumbed to the faithlessness in universal empathy that modern society can induce in a person.

    I think if you want to bring change, you have to get used to being seen as naive.

    Otherwise, we might as well recognize our own impending doom and be all for the Iran deal in the hopes that it brings about a nuclear holocaust that gets rid of us all faster and with less pain.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    edited April 2015
    Well I favor be called naive , instead of just being a doom thinker!! I will not let fear dictate the decisions I make in my life!!! Instead I rather live up to my ideals. It might be a non popular way in living these days, but I´ll stick to it and hope I can convince others to see my point of view. I wouldn't hold my breath until that happens, but I won´t stop either! I know my worldview isn't the only one, or even the right one, it´s just another one... No better or worse than any other view. So I try to listen to anyone with a different view, and see how i can learn from their point of view, and try to share mine.
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,915
    I agree wholeheartedly with both of you up above its just a damn shame that it seems hopeless at times ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,412

    I agree wholeheartedly with both of you up above its just a damn shame that it seems hopeless at times ....

    I know, Jose. I think we need another Pearl Jam show to remember what unity and basking in enjoying life together feels like.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Jose our current president isn't as hawkish so maybe plititio
    BS44325 said:

    Aafke said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:
    A David Brooks opinion piece is not indicative of "where the deal stands right now."
    It is indicative of where the politics of this is moving. Brooks is/was Obama's biggest supporter on the mainstream media "conservative" side. The Corker bill will move forward probably with a likely veto-proof bipartisan majority (see response of Tim Kaine for proof). The "deal" which appears to be a mirage is probably dead. The question now will be how does Obama respond? He could blame Iran for the failure and drop the hammer or he can blame Israel and the 47 "treasonous" senators. I know which way this message board will go but let's see what the president does.
    A message board full of people who want NO MORE WARS and one clown advocating for and spreading the war machine. It's fucken sickening how anyone would want another war. You are one twisted human. Drooling at the prospect of another fucken war to benefit who? Exactly.

    Edit-you want a fucken war, then stop being a fucken coward and enlist. If you're to old then have your son/daughter enlist and have your family well represented there.
    Four F-words in one post. Good work.
    Lucky it was only 4. Anyone who advocates for war is fucken crazy. There's one more.
    If we stay on the path we are on war will be inevitable. If and when it begins I suggest we win it.

    Only nobody really wins, right?

    Correct
    So that begs the question- why do we keep doing engaging in war?

    Because history hasn't ended. Not everyone amongst us are rational actors. I want the world you want but unfortunately evil does exist. "Death to America" cannot be written off as a meaningless slogan for a domestic audience. It is the will of some. We can't wish it away.
    This coming from a guy living in CANADA. Let America decide what to do. Why you so gung-ho for fucken war? And you have a funny fucken way of determining who's evil and who's the good guys.
    Yes, BS, evil does exist, we can´t wish it away, but by posting the way you do, in my opinion, you fuel the existing evil, instead of looking for a solution. War has never, ever had any winners, it only brings pain and grief on both sides... By fueling up the fear and hatred you are part of the problem in my opinion, not part of the solution. All humans have a lot in common, if we start looking for these commons instead of the differences, the world can be a peaceful place maybe, one day...
    This sounds nice but not everyone wants to find common ground with us. Pointing this out is not to "fuel fear and hatred". I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable.
    Wrong most humans would prefer common ground. We just listen to war profiteers too much.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    edited April 2015
    We just let fear dictate our actions to much and act out of our prejudices instead of listening to on another. Instead of looking for our common grounds, we only focus on what divides us, I think it´s a shame.... Most people find it easier to think of the world as us vs them, it structures the world much easier. But also gives war profiteers to much ground to divide us.
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Just felt like chiming in with FUCK WAR. Carry on
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,412
    edited April 2015
    badbrains said:

    Just felt like chiming in with FUCK WAR. Carry on

    But see even this has to be rethought. The opposite of war isn't coexistence. So, rather than putting energy into hating war, we need to put energy into championing peace, and letting differences become positive factors instead of negative ones. It sounds like a small and pedantic comment, but I think it'll be paramount to learning to love universally.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    edited April 2015
    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    Just felt like chiming in with FUCK WAR. Carry on

    But see even this has to be rethought. The opposite of war isn't coexistence. So, rather than putting energy into hating war, we need to put energy into championing peace, and letting differences become positive factors instead of negative ones. It sounds like a small and pedantic comment, but I think it'll be paramount to learning to love universally.
    I completely agree...We don´t need more hate in this world, we need more companionship.
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
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